0
   

Let's talk about replacing GWBush in 2004.

 
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Nov, 2003 05:18 pm
Sure bugs some folks when the other side scores. It really doesn't mean much other than that a spectacular stunt was pulled off. Well, the Air Defense Commands of some countries in the region are probably all in a tizzy ... there is dire implication in not noticing a 747 with fighter escort.

Hbob, what matters in the end is who is proven to have been right. I must observe neither the course of events nor the odds favor The Opposition.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Nov, 2003 05:30 pm
But what is "right?" Is "right" ignoring world hostility and flexing muscles, or is "right" doing what is best for the world and not murdering innocent Iraqis? Might does not make "right." I realize some people simply think war and weaponry are "cool," but that makes them antisocial, not "right."
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Nov, 2003 06:02 pm
Apply that argument to Saddam and his kindred thugs, supporters, apologists, immitators, and sycophants throughout the world, hbob, and you'll have the right idea. You're looking in the wrong direction.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Nov, 2003 06:07 pm
Hobitbob
You speak as if the American troops are killing Iraqis. I suggest you take another look. The people who are killing Iraqis are Iraqis.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Nov, 2003 06:20 pm
au1929 wrote:
Hobitbob
You speak as if the American troops are killing Iraqis. I suggest you take another look. The people who are killing Iraqis are Iraqis.


And Turks are killing Turks, Saudis are killing Saudis, Afghanis are killing Afghanis, Chechens are killing Chechens, and so on. Everywhere, Islamists, irrespective of flag, are killing not only civilians but Muslims in specific, disproportionately, wholly appart from the outrage of terrorism itself.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Nov, 2003 07:50 pm
I don't think it was a score for Mr. Bush........I think it just makes him look like a little scared copy cat who does whatever little photo op thing Rove tells him to do. He's fooling fewer and fewer people......and that spells defeat to me. Anyway, I think he's a silly little nerd.
0 Replies
 
Misti26
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2003 12:09 am
You can all think what you wish, and I will think what I wish, which is .... it was a great morale booser for our troops, and I think it took a lot of courage to pull it off, for that I am grateful! GWB has scored with me!!!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2003 12:15 am
Hey, If it scored with the troops, it scored with me!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2003 08:19 am
Although this is of minor interest for me, perhaps some of you are interested, who of the candidates is funded by whom with how much:

The Money Map
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2003 08:36 am
As I just said on another thread, the thanksgiving dinner was brilliant PR.

But it had nothing to do with the troops at all. What are the chances, dear readers, that this would have happened without cameras and reporters? Yes, correct answer, you pass the quizz. Soldiers as PR tools, once again. The sucking sound you hear is the sound of the credulous sucking it all in.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2003 08:56 am
That's a wonderful tool, Walter! Many thanks! I'm glad to see that my county (and adjoining counties) are so hot for Dean. And that the "I35 corridor" (a north-south interstate highway running through the middle of the country) is increasingly pro-Dem. We're taking back the "red states," it seems, slowly but surely.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2003 09:04 am
This was just another cheap theatrical trick created for the amusement of the faithful..................
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2003 12:38 pm
The MoneyMap site is interesting. For instance, I find the following comparison quite interesting:

Dean's key donor support areas:

http://www.able2know.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10156/normal_AADeanZip3map.jpg

as compared to the relative support of Democrat (Blue) vs Republican (Red) donors:

http://www.able2know.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10156/normal_AARepVDemZip3map.jpg
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2003 08:24 pm
http://users2.wsj.com/img/bypass2/header_sm.gif

'The Democrats!'Beloved Series Nears End of Run

Wall Street Journal ^ | November 28, 2003 | Danniel Henninger

WONDER LAND By DANIEL HENNINGER

'The Democrats!' Beloved Series Nears End of Run


There is a school of thought in the newspaper business that this is the least read day of the year. If there is any truth in that, then it's the perfect day to ponder the nine men and women running for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Working and living in New York City, one bumps into highly verbal Democrats at every turn whose endearing first impulse is to let you, and everyone nearby, know how very, very much they despise George Bush. As one announced to the other club members around a table the evening after the president's address in London: "Listen up, everyone, we have a Bush supporter here tonight!"

Less inhalating for Democrats, however, than the glue of animosity appears to be the prospect of having to discuss the party's nine pins, who've been careening toward the presidential nomination for almost the whole year. The number of nonprofessional Democrats I've encountered who are willing to offer analysis of these nine obsessives is close to zero.

The kind of Democrats who wonder how the members of their party suddenly came to be known as "progressives" don't seem to believe this is happening to them, that some magical event will save them from this calamity. They'll awaken one morning to a clear sky, and all this weirdness will have gone away because across the top of every morning paper it will say: "Hillary's Hat's in the Ring." But in fact Hillary appears to have excused herself from this political dreamworld and isn't likely to lead the light brigade in 2004.

That leaves these nine, who routinely spread themselves as one before the American people, a kind of cat-o'-nine-tails for their party.

They were on view again this week for a "debate" in Iowa, a few beamed into the lineup as heads inside a TV on a pedestal, though without Joe Lieberman who said he'd been "blackballed" by some of the other candidates. As an old high-school debate judge, it appeared to me that the only thing resembling an authentic debate took place in a remarkable exchange between Al Sharpton and Tom Brokaw over the Tawana Brawley case, for which Mr. Brokaw sought an apology. Instead, Mr. Sharpton deftly dumped the entire history of the Confederacy, lynching and racism down upon the startled head of Mr. Brokaw who finally said "we'll try to leave it at that," only to get punched around some more for venturing into Mr. Sharpton's neighborhood.

It is getting more difficult by the debate to resist Rev. Sharpton's ineffable charms, as when months ago, he summed up the evening as "seven politicians, an officer, a lady and me, a gentleman."

In fact, with the reality of a nonpseudo-event just around the bend with January's Iowa caucuses, I am beginning to feel the sense of loss that comes when a long-running TV series approaches its end. When "M*A*S*H" subsided, it meant there would never be another new night with Radar, and when these debates end, it means there will be no more Dennis Kucinich. I will miss him.

Seriously. On this evening, Mr. Kucinich announced, in one breath, that he was for universal, government health care and "free" college tuition, and in another that we should "cancel" Nafta and "get out" of Iraq. A friend called the next morning to express the hope that these debates were not being broadcast outside the United States.

There were as well many closely harmonized choral pieces on Medicare and Iraq, but my favorite song was "Negotiate With North Korea." Howard Dean, the middle tenor: "I think the offer that the president of North Korea has on the table has real promise." Mr. Gephardt, after noting from the upper registers that Kim Jong Il "is half nuts anyway," said President Bush "should go and get a negotiation going and get to the bottom of this." And Mr. Kerry, the basso profundo, urged "greater cooperation with North Korea."

But the big news this week is that after months of out-of-town tryouts, the cast has decided to drop what was expected to be one of the production's showstoppers: "The Miserable U.S. Economy." No one told Mr. Brokaw, who announced early on that "we're going to get to the economy as well," but we never did, unless one includes Dick Gephardt's thought that, "We had a holistic set of ideas to get the economy to grow."

Within days of the debate, it emerged that in the third quarter the economy grew 8.2% and that corporate profits (a phenomenon routinely attacked by this group) were up 30%, the highest year-over-year growth in 19 years.

The Bush Medicare bill? 9-0 against. The Bush Iraq policy? 9-0 against. The way George Bush walks to the helicopter? 9-0 against. Wesley Clark, the former Supreme Allied Commander Europe, suggested that Mr. Bush's policies allowed 9/11 to happen.

What is anyone supposed to make of this performance? During the Clinton presidency, Republicans found areas of policy with which to agree, such as Nafta or welfare reform. This nonet's implacable, totalist rejection of every waking moment in the Bush presidency approaches parody -- politics as video game, relentlessly splattering imaginary enemies.

The standard explanation is that the party's primary voters live in the political wilderness, are happy there and will throw a tantrum if not pandered to. Well, everyone panders in politics -- but out in view of the whole country for 10 straight months?

Republicans could care less. But serious Democrats, claiming fealty to the more robust legacy of FDR, Harry Truman and LBJ, must cringe at the infantilizing of their party. They may hope that all this will be forgotten next year. But the whole whacky cast has been performing on television for months. Nobody forgets a good show.

Updated November 28, 2003

Copyright © 2003 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved

http://users2.wsj.com/img/wj00g18.gif
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2003 08:49 pm
Letterman

Quote:
President Bush had Thanksgiving dinner with the troops in Baghdad. It was $1,000 a plate.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2003 09:20 pm
Lola, It really wasn't that cheap. They're offering up their lives for that meal.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2003 09:49 pm
Isn't that turkey enormous?

http://billmon.org/archives/bushturkey.gif

And the bird is pretty large, too...
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2003 10:29 pm
Which one has the bigger brain?
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2003 09:57 pm
"I told the press I pardoned this turkey..."

http://www.bartcop.com/baghdad-turkey.jpg

"I lied."
0 Replies
 
hamnet
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2003 10:03 pm
I think that the article given by Mr. Timberlandko presents the truth about a real danger to the future of the Democratic Party. It would appear that Mr. Dean is the front runner and that he is dooming himself to destruction on Nov. 3rd 2004 with his quixotic absolutism with regard the the Bush tax cuts. Dean should, of course, strongly decry the tax cuts for the rich but should not call for tax cuts across the board. After April 15th 2004, there will be too many middle class Americans who will benefit from the Bush Tax cuts. Dean will alienate them all unless he changes his message.
0 Replies
 
 

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