Let's talk about replacing GWBush in 2004.

Why turn a troll into a celebrity?

A celebrity without any fans is a lonely one indeed!

Timber,

I'm not trying to be rude to you. But you are incorrect about Tartarin. She will complete what she started about the memorial thread for Mamajuana. But she has posted only twice (on this memorial thread) for the past week. I've been in touch with her. I hope she won't stay gone. But I'm afraid she may. I won't try to speak for her. She can speak for herself. But I believe the reason so many people avoid these threads is because nothing is done about flamers like Italgato. He is an extreme case. He's abusing other posters. And it should be stopped.

And in answer to your question about responding to him, I'll repeat myself:

When one poster is so relentlessly disrespectful and constantly attacking other posters and nothing is done about it, it is inhumane to expect others not to eventually break down and respond in kind. This is too much to ask of any human being. You'll notice that none of us, including you, have been able to resist completely.

I genuinely appreciate all you and the others working so hard behind the scenes are doing for a2k and the people who are enjoying it. I don't complain often. And I've never publicly complained about any other poster. But in this case, I'm concerned about the long term effect on these political threads. If they get monotonous, or I should say if they continue to be this way, eventually all we'll have left are the flamers.

And that's enough, I've said what I have to say.

Lola
Don't you think if everyone ignored him he would eventually discover that he was howling at the moon and fade away. Timber is correct the way to get rid of a pest is to ignore him.

My opinion.

If someone has broken the TOS, take the offense (a link to the offending post) to the Moderator.

The only problem is--the offender may be able to find similar offenses in many other posts, and expect the same treatment to be exacted on them--which, to me, is fair.

I haven't followed the posts involved, so I am only speaking in generalities.

I do think, beyond complaining, Timber is correct. If I were offended, but didn't have grounds to charge the 'offender' with TOS violation, I would simply not respond to the poster in question. Perhaps the 'offender' may think better of it, and amend his/her behavior, in time.

Blatham,

It's odd that you think Italgato is rude and reactions to him (including yours) are not.

The beam people.

Blatham to lose you if the only other option is an unfair enforecement of the rules would be a necessary evil. I have told you privately of the bias I consider you to have. That's fine with me but the site's rules and policy will simply not follow your own political leanings.

Gosh it hurts me to see all of this argumentative behavior. I love all of you so much.

Note to others:

Emotional blackmail ("I'm leaving if you don't ban who I don't like") is unacceptable.

I liek a lot of you and many times I don't like the person you don't like. But there is no room on this site for enforcement of the rules based on who you like and dislike. IF that if a choice forced on the site (making the rules unfair and skewed to your preference) then we lose you. Simple as that.

Many people have said to me taht they have left this site because of Tartarin or Blatham or whomever. I paid them no attention as well.

Violations against the TOS are acted on, not simple dislike for someone.

Find me a post by Italgato that you consider an actionable offense and send it to me by PM I will find posts by each one of you who have complained that is a far clearer violation of the rules.

If you want action against him then you have to accept equal action against yourselves.

This is why Timber is subtly telling you to stop stooping to insults. If you don't like them but participate in them then you can't complain without also requesting the same action against yourselves.

Every person here who has complained about Italgato has played into his hands by reacting to him and going further than he does. Every single one of the people complaining here has violated the rules to a far greater extent than Italgato has.

Italgato seems (to me) to liek irritating you all but he doesn't break the TOS. You folk frequently do when reacting and then submit the moderators to emotional blackmail.

It's self-centered and unfair. While I might care personally about an individual leaving about not having his or her way the site's policy will simply not be enforced with that in mind.

Every site action can cause a person to leave. What the goal of site policy is is not to keep people here from leaving (especially if they are saying that we have to take their side or they walk). The policy is to uphold a standard, and the people complaining here need to realize that if they don't uphold the standard themselves they tie our hands.

Italgato has violated the TOS one time, it was in direct response to another member's violation of the TOS and it was a violation that was far far less actionable than violations many of you routinely post.

Again, I am willing to walk you though this. Find and PM me a post by Italgato that merits action and I will find a post by you that is more deserving of action using your criteria.

The desire to force our hand into taking your side or watching you go is downright self-centered and rude. The policy is not a childish "be my friend" game. If you want to use emotional blackmail to get your way in this site you run the risk of losing friendships. It does not work this way, no matter how a moderator feels about an individual the policy is not subject to emotional attachments.

Would you have it any other way?

Geez, I gotta agree with Craven, again. It's becoming a bad habit. LOL I've said in the past that I'm glad I'm not a "moderator." Their job is not an easy one, and I thank them for taking on this very important responsibility. A2K is not a 'popularity contest.' It's here to open discussion on about every subject under the sun - to entertain and get some knowledge. It's doing both very successfully - IMHO. If some individual turns you off, ignore them. That's in your 'power.' There are plenty of other forums that could keep anybody busy on A2K, and it's not necessary to threaten termination of memberhsip. Come on, let's stop playing politics on A2K. Italgato may be obnoxious to some of us, but he's playing by the rules.

Just to say from the otherside, I very rarely reply to Italgato's posts as I find many of them extreme. The same goes for BumbleBeeBoogie. Pick and choose your battles. That is what I have learned to do here.

I appreciate that you understand c.i. It's just not fair to use emotional blackmail. By definition policy has to rise above emotional feelings and be just. To allow one's feelings for an individual to make the rules unfair to satisfy a self-centered request is simply unacceptable. It leads to gross injustice, if the criteria is an individual's feelings we walk a scarey road. Would you think it fair if I banned the people I don't like? If not, then it's also unfair to request that we take action against people simply because an individual has a distaste for them.

If there is a violation of the rules please report it.

If the rules can be altered for the better please suggest it.

Just please don't try to use emotional blackmail to force us into accepting an individual's whim. That is not just and the enforcement of policy can't be unjust.

It's simply impossible to please everyone, so please do not make as the criteria for policy what would please you.

Think about the objective application of these rules. If you can improve on them I am open to suggestions. But demanding that we take action against your enemy based on a friendship we have with you is a gross abuse of the friendship.

Craven--

You have well-stated the only fair method. I support you and the Mods in this difficult situation.
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Italgato--

I don't expect you to roll over. You are shining a light on a degree of hypocracy within sectors of our membership-- but, in 'this light', I hope you will pause and reflect on the difficulty your 'tone', in some cases, is presenting for our management, and perhaps word your opinions with a bit more thought given to compatibility. I have no right to ask such a thing, and you have the right to disregard me. I want you to stay. I'd like everyone to stay.

I also hope other members may look back at the content of their own posts, and see how they have said many of the type of things you have. They are just speaking from the same side of issues, so their 'violations' don't stand out to them.

I had serious tonal dysfunction when I arrived, as well. It can get worse with every liberal blizzard. I don't know if the majority lib members see themselves as a feeding pack-- but I well know they look like that from your angle, as I have been there.

Best wishes.

I'd like to state the same to Italgato.

I appreciate that he does try to respect the rules but wish he didn't see this as a place to provoke liberals.

Provoking people in political discussions is easy. It's an unworthy objective.

Back to the topic:



--GWB, from his interview with Brit Hume

I frankly find this comment delusional, except for the 'being judged' part. He will, most assuredly, be judged.



Utter bullshit. He played golf three or four times a week during his month-long vacation.

As my grandmother used to say, "Don't climb a tree to tell a lie when the truth lies at your feet."



You means words like these?



--George W. Bush, September 2002

Bush Trails Bert in Latest Gallup Poll



WASHINGTON (IWR Satire) -- According to a poll released today, President Bush's approval rating plummeted to 50%, which is the lowest level of his presidency. The same poll also showed Bush running behind the Bert the Muppet in the 2004 presidential race.

the thing between my legs is my tail

(If that is not a sufficiently clear community-wide statement of embarrased penitence, let me add quickly while the guy outside has the jackhammer going real loud that I sometimes do a rather infantile leave-in-a-huff thing when frustrated or when I'm feeling a bit hurt. My daughter will sign below as attestation to this bit of silliness in me. It's my one failing, but I fess up to it)

Ya know, it only bothers us blatham cause we like you. ;-)

blatham-- YAY!



Now, if Tartar and Brand X would come back...

Ah, hell, blatham ... yer huff ain't never gone from its parkin'spot fer very long. I'll bet lots of folk never even notice when you leave in it.

Okay, Tartarin, if blatham and I can, you can. The board is making efforts to moderate, let's give it a try.