0
   

Let's talk about replacing GWBush in 2004.

 
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 09:36 pm
"Fanatics"....quite a different picture.
Thank you for the clarification.
Surely, you've worked with left-wing fanatics, as well...?
0 Replies
 
Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 09:38 pm
sofia:

Professor Hobobit says that Lola is a psychologist.

Lola then opines that conservatives are psychopaths.

I am always eagar to learn more.

Since Lola is a psychologist, I am sure that she can, right off the top of her head( I am confident she can remember the source) tell us which professional study or studies we can be referred to so that we may learn of the truthfulness of her comment about the fact that conservatives are psychopaths.

Having read Lola's blurbs on this venue for a while, I expect that she will not repond to the question but rather give some non sequitur.

May we have the source (sources) of the statement- conservatives are psychopaths or is it another left wing fairy tale?
0 Replies
 
Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 09:47 pm
Mr. Blatham responds to George OB's theory about the Clintons setting up General Clark with the most effective response I have ever heard.

Pshaw.
How brilliant.

It must have taken Mr. Blatham two or three hours to construct that argument.

Mr. Blatham is also fond of referring to essays.

He referred to "The Paranoid Style in American Politics" by Ricahrd Hofstader. It was written in 1963. It was written when Hofstader thought the Republicans believed in conspiracies.

But surely, Hofstader was prescient when he wrote these words:

"And the paranoid style, as I conceive it, the feeling of persecution is central, and it is indeed systematized in grandiose theories of conspiracy."

Why I haven't heard any conservatives mention the word conspiracy recently. The only one who loudly proclaimed a RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY was Hillary Rodham Clinton.

It would appear, Dear Mr. Blatham, that according to Hofstader's definition, the Democrats have Paranoia, not the Republicans.

I respectfully suggest that you read the essay again. I think you missed some important ideas.
0 Replies
 
Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 09:56 pm
Mr. Blatham: Sir--

You addressed a couple of essays to me. Essays written by one Mark Donner and H. D. S. Greenway.

I hope that you will not accuse me of plagiarism if I utilize the stunning and definitive answer you gave to George when you rebutted his entire argument on the Clintons and General Clark with a pithy
"Pshaw"

To your presentation of Donner and Greenway, I say Pshaw also.

But I will not be as brief as you.

I don't know if you are aware that some people know who these people are:

I know who Mark Donner is.

He is about as far left wing as anyone can possibly get.

To expcet fairness and balance from him is to expect fairness and balance from Pat Buchanan.

Who is Mark Donner?

Well, he graduated from Harvard with a degree in Modern Literature and Aesthetics( Not Political Science--not Journalism-) in 1981- Magna Cum Laude( Apparently he wasn't good enough to make Summa).

He was then hired by the University of California at Berkeley. You know, Berkeley, the nut house of the West. They wanted to secede from the USA two years ago.

And, then you quote H. D. S. Greenway. There's nothing wrong with Greenway excpet that he was unloaded by the Boston Globe in 2002 as thier Foreign Affairs Columnist.

Now that I read your Danner and Greenway, will you read my Will and Krauthammer?
0 Replies
 
Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 10:01 pm
Dear psychologist Lola:

I am very sorry but I have read some Psychology. Not as much as you have.

Would you please define a "Holey super-ego structure"

I thought the "super-ego" was a Freudian term.

I was under the impression that Freudianism had been discredited.

Please define "super-ego" and tell us that Freud( perhaps in your mind alone) is still valid
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 10:10 pm
censored.............not nice
I'm told
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 10:10 pm
Italgato

You read the pieces, and that is in your favour. But your post is an exercise in ad hominem fallacy. You go not an inch into either matter, but simply brush it all aside with your labels. Sorry, we shan't be attending class together again, but I do wish you the best.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 10:12 pm
sorry
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 10:12 pm
Italgato,
Be careful what you ask for. SmileConservatism as mental illness
Quote:
Researchers help define what makes a political conservative

By Kathleen Maclay, Media Relations | 22 July 2003 (revised 7/25/03)

BERKELEY - Politically conservative agendas may range from supporting the Vietnam War to upholding traditional moral and religious values to opposing welfare. But are there consistent underlying motivations?

Four researchers who culled through 50 years of research literature about the psychology of conservatism report that at the core of political conservatism is the resistance to change and a tolerance for inequality, and that some of the common psychological factors linked to political conservatism include:

* Fear and aggression
* Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity
* Uncertainty avoidance
* Need for cognitive closure
* Terror management

"From our perspective, these psychological factors are capable of contributing to the adoption of conservative ideological contents, either independently or in combination," the researchers wrote in an article, "Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition," recently published in the American Psychological Association's Psychological Bulletin.

Assistant Professor Jack Glaser of the University of California, Berkeley's Goldman School of Public Policy and Visiting Professor Frank Sulloway of UC Berkeley joined lead author, Associate Professor John Jost of Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, and Professor Arie Kruglanski of the University of Maryland at College Park, to analyze the literature on conservatism.

The psychologists sought patterns among 88 samples, involving 22,818 participants, taken from journal articles, books and conference papers. The material originating from 12 countries included speeches and interviews given by politicians, opinions and verdicts rendered by judges, as well as experimental, field and survey studies.

Ten meta-analytic calculations performed on the material - which included various types of literature and approaches from different countries and groups - yielded consistent, common threads, Glaser said.

The avoidance of uncertainty, for example, as well as the striving for certainty, are particularly tied to one key dimension of conservative thought - the resistance to change or hanging onto the status quo, they said.

The terror management feature of conservatism can be seen in post-Sept. 11 America, where many people appear to shun and even punish outsiders and those who threaten the status of cherished world views, they wrote.

Concerns with fear and threat, likewise, can be linked to a second key dimension of conservatism - an endorsement of inequality, a view reflected in the Indian caste system, South African apartheid and the conservative, segregationist politics of the late Sen. Strom Thurmond (R-South S.C.).

Disparate conservatives share a resistance to change and acceptance of inequality, the authors said. Hitler, Mussolini, and former President Ronald Reagan were individuals, but all were right-wing conservatives because they preached a return to an idealized past and condoned inequality in some form. Talk host Rush Limbaugh can be described the same way, the authors commented in a published reply to the article.

This research marks the first synthesis of a vast amount of information about conservatism, and the result is an "elegant and unifying explanation" for political conservatism under the rubric of motivated social cognition, said Sulloway. That entails the tendency of people's attitudinal preferences on policy matters to be explained by individual needs based on personality, social interests or existential needs.

The researchers' analytical methods allowed them to determine the effects for each class of factors and revealed "more pluralistic and nuanced understanding of the source of conservatism," Sulloway said.

While most people resist change, Glaser said, liberals appear to have a higher tolerance for change than conservatives do.

As for conservatives' penchant for accepting inequality, he said, one contemporary example is liberals' general endorsement of extending rights and liberties to disadvantaged minorities such as gays and lesbians, compared to conservatives' opposing position.

The researchers said that conservative ideologies, like virtually all belief systems, develop in part because they satisfy some psychological needs, but that "does not mean that conservatism is pathological or that conservative beliefs are necessarily false, irrational, or unprincipled."

They also stressed that their findings are not judgmental.

"In many cases, including mass politics, 'liberal' traits may be liabilities, and being intolerant of ambiguity, high on the need for closure, or low in cognitive complexity might be associated with such generally valued characteristics as personal commitment and unwavering loyalty," the researchers wrote.

This intolerance of ambiguity can lead people to cling to the familiar, to arrive at premature conclusions, and to impose simplistic cliches and stereotypes, the researchers advised.

The latest debate about the possibility that the Bush administration ignored intelligence information that discounted reports of Iraq buying nuclear material from Africa may be linked to the conservative intolerance for ambiguity and or need for closure, said Glaser.

"For a variety of psychological reasons, then, right-wing populism may have more consistent appeal than left-wing populism, especially in times of potential crisis and instability," he said.

Glaser acknowledged that the team's exclusive assessment of the psychological motivations of political conservatism might be viewed as a partisan exercise. However, he said, there is a host of information available about conservatism, but not about liberalism.

The researchers conceded cases of left-wing ideologues, such as Stalin, Khrushchev or Castro, who, once in power, steadfastly resisted change, allegedly in the name of egalitarianism.

Yet, they noted that some of these figures might be considered politically conservative in the context of the systems that they defended. The researchers noted that Stalin, for example, was concerned about defending and preserving the existing Soviet system.

Although they concluded that conservatives are less "integratively complex" than others are, Glaser said, "it doesn't mean that they're simple-minded."

Conservatives don't feel the need to jump through complex, intellectual hoops in order to understand or justify some of their positions, he said. "They are more comfortable seeing and stating things in black and white in ways that would make liberals squirm," Glaser said.

He pointed as an example to a 2001 trip to Italy, where President George W. Bush was asked to explain himself. The Republican president told assembled world leaders, "I know what I believe and I believe what I believe is right." And in 2002, Bush told a British reporter, "Look, my job isn't to nuance."
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 10:19 pm
Hang on a minute, here, kids ... this ain't about "Us", its about discussion of whether, and if so, how, to replace Bush the Younger in '04. Who amongst us as may be a psychologist, or who a lumberjack or a common street whore, is not at issue. The way I see it, bumping Bush is a matter of sufficient importance and complexity as essentially to obviate any possible justification of digression. I figure replacing the scoundrel and his cronies is a moot point, but that is of no consequence, either, except as opinion.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 10:23 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Hang on a minute, here, kids ... this ain't about "Us", its about discussion of whether, and if so, how, how to replace Bush the Younger in '04 who amongst us as may be a psychologist, or who a lumberjack or a common street whore, is not at issue. The way I see it, that is a matter of sufficient importance and complexity as essentially to obviare justification of digression, I figure replacing the scoundrel and his cronies is a moot point, but that is of no consequence, either, except as opini0n.

The first stage is denial, Timber. Admit you have a problem. Say to yourself: "I can be normal...I can be normal..." Then pour yourself a nice cup of herbal tea and put on your Birkys and Dashiki and go outside and sit in your meditation garden Wink
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 10:24 pm
PS; did anyone else just have a "Hank Hill moment?" I sure did after writing that. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 10:26 pm
Hank treats his truck right,
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 10:26 pm
Yup!
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 10:41 pm
Another guy's opinion....

Leftist projection
by Richard Kirk • Thursday August 28, 2003 at 11:35 AM



What psychological characteristics do leftists like Josef Stalin, Fidel Castro and Ted Kennedy have in common: an enthusiasm for "change"? A commitment to coercive methods of conflict resolution? Narcissism? A propensity for murder?

You aren't likely to see a study published in the American Psychological Association's Bulletin that purports to address the above questions, but a few weeks ago a "meta-study" (a study of other studies) by four university professors provided a psychological profile of "conservatives" - among whom they included Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Ronald Reagan, and George W. Bush. The traits given particular attention were the following: fear, aggression, dogmatism, uncertainty avoidance, and the need for cognitive closure.

The study was helpful-in a "meta" sorta way. It served to display many of the worst features of leftist intellectuals-features that largely resemble the traits said to characterize conservatives. In psychology this phenomenon is known as projection, the unconscious attributing of feelings to others that are unattractive components of one's own emotional makeup.

Only dogmatism can explain why a ruthless dictator who sanctioned mass murder fits under the same motivational headings as Republic presidents who are anxious to protect the sanctity of life. Only a failure of anger management can explain why a Fuhrer with a fatal attraction for Aryan supermen and scorn for the "weak" and "sickly" religion of Christ should be made the mental bedfellow of a gentlemen who declared that Jesus was his favorite philosopher. Only a compulsive need for collegial conformity can explain why a National Socialist who concentrated absolute authority in his own hands is viewed as a soul mate of politicians who espouse the limited-government ideals of Thomas Jefferson. And these are academics who say conservative thought isn't "nuanced." The remoteness from reality that characterizes this study also permeates the leftist profiles that are explored in Paul Johnson's book, "Intellectuals."

Again and again one encounters grandiose notions that have little to do with actual experience. Marx, for example, had no significant contact with the workers in whose name he spoke. Nor did he deign to explore the actual dynamics of economic production-which more often than not contradicted the theories to which he was morbidly attached. The same can be said of Lenin, whose authoritarian personality made him the polar opposite of Will Rogers. No one who met him ever liked him.

Jean-Jacques Rousseau is a poster child for thinkers whose life and writings bear little relationship to each other. J.J. gave up his five illegitimate kids to a foundling hospital and later wrote an influential book on child-rearing, "Emile."

My diagnosis is that leftist intellectual regularly gauge self-worth by their attachment to unrealistic ideas that substitute for serious reflection on the massive moral flaws that often characterize their own lives.

-----------
Hmm. Food for thought.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 10:44 pm
Freud (unless read about in Psychology Today) remains in substantial regard by those practicioners who managed to get past the writings of Yung as their only basis of understanding Freud. While the mandle that floats between the rigid empiricism of bio-chemical somatic models and the starry eyed cosmic consciousness of new age golly gee whiz tuned in harmonies, is oft times caught up in child like mantras "freud is sooo arcane." Dismissiveness under the guise of neo-pragmaticism is more akin to improving the wheel by adding corners on three sides than by truing the roundness.
0 Replies
 
Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 10:53 pm
Mr Blatham:

I must point out that you dismissed an argument(a very good one, in my Opinion) by George OB and then you have the gall to say that "I go not an inch into either matter".

After I show how you totally ignored some posts which totally took your arguments apart, will you then say not an inch.

I say that Mr. Blatham did not go a centimeter into George OB;'s argument.

So, show your stuff and answer George OB, Mr. Blatham. Then I will show you how I will not only go an inch into the arguments of the left wing Berkeley professor( who make erroneous assumption after erroneous assumption and does not give evidence).

After you, dear sir.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 10:56 pm
Sofia...only a righty sicko like you would lump Stalin in with Ted Kennedy! Puhlease shuffle to your nearest ED at once and say : I need my risperidol! Wink
0 Replies
 
Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 11:03 pm
Sofia - Thank you for your submission of the Kirk article which puts the lie to Professor Hobobit's post.

Professor Hobobit is probably unaware that we know that the evidence he gives comes from Berkeley.

It is probably bogus.

Professor Hobobit would accept no evidence from the Hoover Institute, I am sure. Why should we accept evidence from Berkeley?

Left wing Loonies?

How's this for a start?

Karl Mark

Frederich Engles

John Jacques Rousseau

Bertrand Russell

Emma Goldman

Srewballs- all.

There is more mental disease in those five than can be found in the entire US population.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2003 11:09 pm
Dys, I could not have said it so well. I think it's a good idea to ask about (contemporary) Freudian psychoanalysis before pronouncing knowledge of it's demise. It is alive and very much well, and growing, developing at this very moment. I, btw think care should be taken before pronoucing any conclusions in any field of advanced specialty, without first making an extensive attempt to understand it in it's full complexity. If there is a practitioner of such a specialty available (as we have many on a2k) care should be taken to ask questions before revealing ignorance. Of course, I'm not entirely innocent of this mistake myself. But if I do it, I hope those who notice it will point it out to me. It's so embarrassing when I do that.

Sophia,
I agree with you about the left fanatics. A fanatic is a fanatic and it matters little the content of the fanaticism. What left fanatics share with right fanatics is basic and defining. I don't personally know many left fanatics........although I know they are plentiful. The right-wing types, I have more experience with than I wish I did. I think it's true that many conservatives tend to prefer to manage their lives by use of the status quo and dependence on the known, established patterns. There's nothing wrong with that. And it's no secret. I prefer to question everything. I consider our right to doubt to be primary in the discovery of new methods and creativity. But there is much to be said for security and comfort, as long as it's not imposed against my will.

I should make it clear that I consider Bush to be a right wing fanatic. He's dangerous to us all.

And Italgato,

I will talk to you only if you calm down and speak in your indoor voice. Come back later and try again, if you please.
0 Replies
 
 

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