0
   

Let's talk about replacing GWBush in 2004.

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2003 10:16 am
Italgato, I'm Asian, and I find Ms Chao's statement about "growing jobs" to be stupid. This administration has succeeded in over three million job loss, so how in tarnation are they going to "grow jobs?"
c.i.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2003 04:26 pm
Couldn't have said it better if I sat down and tried.

James C. Moore, author of Bush's Brain: How Karl Rove Made George W. Bush Presidential:

Quote:
There are too many lies, too many transgressions to list. Richard Nixon, in a less cynical era, told only one. And we were all supremely affronted by what he did to our democracy.

George W. Bush, and Karl Rove, has told dozens, each one of them more damaging than lying about a break-in of a political headquarters. And yes, Bill Clinton lied. But nobody died. He told an all-too-common male lie about consensual sex. But he did not send the sons and daughters of America marching off to war wearing the boots of a well-told lie. George W. Bush's one term will mark a low point in our country's history. But if we all pay closer attention, and vote, we can recover.

I love my country. But I hate my president.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2003 04:30 pm
If this administration is going to "grow jobs," I want to know in which sector of our economy they're planning to do that. Increasing government employees don't count: they don't produce any goods or services to sell.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2003 04:31 pm
And I want to see numbers and dates.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2003 05:56 pm
Quote:
Did conservative elements in the White House provoke an Exxon front group to sue EPA to suppress a report on climate change? That's the question that two State Attorney Generals have asked US Attorney General John Ashcroft to investigate, after Greenpeace uncovered a routine email in a Freedom of Information Act request.


In the email, Myron Ebell of the Exxon-funded Competitive Enterprise Institute writes to Phil Cooney, a senior official at the White House Council for Environmental Quality. He describes his plans to discredit an EPA study on climate change through a lawsuit. He states the need to "drive a wedge between the President and those in the Administration who think that they are serving the president's interests by publishing this rubbish." He notes his group is considering a call for the then-head of the Environmental Protection Agency, Christine Todd Whitman, to resign, and openly suggests that she'd make an appropriate "fall gal" if the administration is serious about getting back into bed with conservatives opposing action on climate change.

His memo to the US government official begins "Thanks for calling and asking for our help."

That statement, and the cosy, conspiratorial tone of the document was enough to make Richard Blumenthal, State Attorney General of Connecticut, and G. Steven Rowe, State Attorney General of Maine, demand an investigation by US Attorney General John Ashcroft into whether Cooney or other officials in the Bush administration solicited the Competitive Enterprise Institute's filing of the new lawsuit, as the memo certainly makes it appear.

http://www.greenpeace.org/news/details?item_id=308563
0 Replies
 
unknown man
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2003 06:02 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Italgato, I'm Asian, and I find Ms Chao's statement about "growing jobs" to be stupid. This administration has succeeded in over three million job loss, so how in tarnation are they going to "grow jobs?"
c.i.

3 million, and at since last year at this time, over 700,000 people have become unemployed.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2003 07:40 pm
Cicerone,

There ARE cycles in economic activity. A contraction in economic activity in both Europe and the United States was already underway when Bush took office. We have endured the subsequent recession , and it has been the mildest one we have experienced following an expansion since WWII. This is no solace to those who have lost their jobs, however it must be recognized in any rational examination of the issue. It may be as appealing to fault Bush for the ebbing economic tide just as it was to credit Clinton for the previous flood. However those who recognize the time delays between economic cause and effect, between stimulus and response,will recognize the folly in this "analysis"..
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2003 08:27 pm
george, I recognize what you say has much truth. However, this president has succeeded in giving tax breaks to the rich at a time when most middle class and the poor are hurting from the lack of jobs. On top of all that, this president has succeeded in starting a war by a preemptive strike on a country that posed no threat to our country, and the cost of this war in American lives and billions are all wastes for which there is no justification. The $150 billion dollars this president has asked the American taxpayers to foot could have been used at home for our own citizens. This president lied about our necessity to have a war with Iraq; WMD's that could be used against us on short notice, and Saddam's connection to al Qaida. None of which turned out to have any truth. We can all appreciate the fact that there are economic cycles, but this president has successfully exacerbated bad conditions to make them worse with his cockamamie tax cuts and this war. Our state and local governments are bleeding red ink, because we're spending precious resources on a war that shouldn't have been fought. The world community said so, and many in this country said so. I remember Bush telling us that he doesn't make decisions based on polls nor what the UN wants. That the world economy would also be in recession is not surprising in this global economy. When the biggest economy hurts, everybody else will hurt. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out; any student of economics 101 would come to that conclusion.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2003 08:34 pm
On teh bright side, I'm glad our children is learning! Confused
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2003 09:49 pm
Economics is not my strong suit. In fact, I'm surprised it might be anybodies strong suit and wonder why they aren't out bowling.

Here is Stiglitz, and though the topic (globalization) is broader than the discussion above, I thought I'd pass this on...
Quote:
But for millions of people globalization has not worked. Many have actually been made worse off, as they have seen their jobs destroyed and their lives become more insecure. They have felt increasingly powerless against forces beyond their control. They have seen their democracies undermined, their cultures eroded.

If globalization continues to be conducted in the way that has been in the past, if we continue to fail to learn from our mistakes, globalization will not only not succeed in promoting development but will continue to create poverty and instability. Without reform, the backlash that has started will mount and discontent with globalization will grow.

http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/8835

George...thank you for the kind welcome over there in the neighboring household
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2003 09:53 pm
Rice a liability?
Has she been listening to Guns n Roses?
Quote:
"Very simple" No Saddam, no WMD problem: Rice
WASHINGTON (AFP) Sep 08, 2003
President George W. Bush did not address the issue of weapons of mass destruction in his speech to the nation at greater length because Saddam Hussein is no longer in power, Bush's national security adviser said Monday.

"It's very simple. Saddam Hussein is no longer in power," national security adviser Condoleezza Rice told NBC television, one day after Bush addressed the nation in a primetime speech about the challenges ahead in Iraq.

"Saddam Hussein was the problem with weapons of mass destruction, Rice said when asked why Bush had not said more about what was a main justification for invading Iraq.

"It was he who had a thorough appetite for weapons of mass destruction. It was he who had used weapons of mass destruction. It was he who was using the wealth and patronage of the country to develop weapons of mass destruction," she said.

Rice added that "we have every reason to believe that a stable. Prosperous and democratizing Iraq will not be a problem in this regard."

Inspector "David Kay will come back with a report on what happened to the weapons of mass destruction and Saddam Hussein's programs," she said, but she stressed that "removing Saddam Hussein removes the threat of weapons of mass destruction."

Howard Dean, a leading Democratic contender for president, told NBC Monday that Rice and Bush "deliberately left a false impression: one, that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11; and two, that there were terrorists actively working out of Iraq."

"There's no evidence for either one of those, other than some peripheral evidence that is circumstantial," Dean said.

"The fact is that we are now bogged down in a war which the president continually justifies."

"The president is leaving the false impression that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11 and the false impression that Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda were in league," Dean charged.

All rights reserved. © 2003 Agence France-Presse.

Eh? Confused
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2003 10:06 pm
blatham, Stiglitz identifies the problems of globalization, but lacks the necessary solutions. It's easy to criticize what is wrong with anything that concerns politics and economics. In a dynamic world, it's not so simple to change the system that will eventually benefit the greater population of this planet. One of the biggest handicaps would be social overhead capital. If I had to pick another handicap, it would be the level of education in third world countries. One just can't say the world banking system is doing a bad job without looking at the macrocosm of poverty and it's impact upon the whole social order. Economics is not my strong suit either, but I do have some opinions as it concerns my personal financial security and the greater humanity. We humans still haven't solved how to maintain peace in this world. Economic equality is still a pipe dream - IMHO.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 08:02 am
ci

Indentifation of problem areas is the first step, but though this was but a small excerpt, Stiglitz does point to change in governance and increased transparency.

Not sure if you (or others here) caught the PBS series Commanding Heights, but it is quite extraordinary, and available on line.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/hi/story/
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 08:49 am
Italgato, some pages back, holds that the next election will pivot on the 'two Ps'...prosperity and peace.

A more likely pairing of Ps gives us propaganda and perception.

Did anyone catch the piece on the Lehrer PBS news last night on Leni Riefenstahl? Really astounding mastery of image and editing to portray something other than what was so. Though Rove's team is often lauded for its understanding of Hollywood techniques in visual media (the aircraft carrier landing, the briefing set in Iraq, dtc), it is really Riefenstahl they mimic.

Perception is, of course, manipulatable, and that is Rove's expertise. Rove is undoubtedly pleased that so many Americans believe, for example, some connection between al Qaeda and Iraq, though the perception is false. Fortunately for the rest of us, such propagandist projects when so jam-packed with falsities and mis-directions become better understood for what they have been, there can be a rather severe disenchantment with the purveyors.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 10:39 am
blatham, The link you provided sounds interesting. I've save it as a Favorite, and will view it when I have a few hours to spare. Thx, c.i.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 05:29 pm
blatham wrote:
Perception is, of course, manipulatable, and that is Rove's expertise. Rove is undoubtedly pleased that so many Americans believe, for example, some connection between al Qaeda and Iraq, though the perception is false. Fortunately for the rest of us, such propagandist projects when so jam-packed with falsities and mis-directions become better understood for what they have been, there can be a rather severe disenchantment with the purveyors.


From a widow's review of DC 9/11: Time of Crisis, the Showtime revision of history associated with Bush and his machinations on 9/11/01:

Quote:
"It is understandable that so little time is actually devoted to the president's true actions on the morning of 9/11. Because to show the entire 23 minutes from 9:03 to 9:25 a.m., when President Bush, in reality, remained seated and listening to "second grade story-hour" while people like my husband were burning alive inside the World Trade Center towers, would run counter to Karl Rove's art direction and grand vision."


---Kristen Breitweiser ,September 8, 2003
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 05:56 pm
Blatham, I get the sense that, as the media is increasingly willing to point out problems -- and lies -- people, if not all, will start to catch on. When the campaign starts, one may hear of more conversions (and inevitably of people angrily holding the line).
0 Replies
 
Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2003 12:23 am
Cicerone Imposter- My post concerning Elaine Chao was not to defend her commentary on jobs or anything else.
Some poster was evidently ignorant of Elaine Chao's excellent background and preparation for the job she now holds.

If you are really concerned about the topic of jobs, you might be interested in what is probably the best book on Globalization in recent years, namely, The Lexus and the Olive Tree.

I could not begin to do it justice but I can give you an insight as to some of the items that Friedman talks about.

RE' The Lexus.

Somewhere in Japan there is a huge automobile factory that produces 300 Lexus automobiles a day.


That factory has only 60 humans working there.

They are all supervisors.

They suprevise the robots and machines that produce the Lexus autos.

The WORLD market will buy those autos.

What should our legislators do? I guess they could ban more "robots and machines" from our auto factories.

Guess who would be able to undercut our prices in the world market, Cicerone?

What is the solution?

In another section of "The Lexus and the Olive Tree" Friedman outlines the ideas of Joseph Schumpeter who talks about "creative destruction", that is, the destruction of jobs that are not needed by an industry and the creations of new ones.

Do you remember reading of who the Buggy Whip factories were put out of business, Cicerone?
0 Replies
 
Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2003 12:33 am
I wonder if President Bush realizes that he is guilty of murder because he was reading "Stories" to the second graders while the unfortunate husband of the bereaved woman died in the WTC.

Couldn't Bush at least be charged with being an accessory?
0 Replies
 
Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2003 12:47 am
Dear Mr. Blatham:

I must commend you for giving a link to Mr. Stiglitz' fine essay. I am very much afraid that you chose two paragraphs to quote which gave only one part of the story.

When cicerone mentioned that Stiglitz gave no solution, then you mentioned "openness and trnasparency"--quite right and a little late.

First of all, if you will re-read Stiglitz's essay, the Nobel Prize winner correctly notes that globalization has helped "millions" of people to better their lives.

You may, if you re-read, also note that Stiglitz also notes that we CANNOT go back on Globalization.

His solutions?

Why- Transparency and openness.

Why, those are the same solutions( but not the only ones) mentioned by Friedman in his "Lexus and the Olive Tree". However, Friedman, indicates that, the Democracies of the world, since they have free elections, have much greater "transparency" and "openness" than many third world countries and the challenge is to show those countries that their standards of living can only rise if they are "trusted" by world- wide investors who need to see "transparency" and "openness" in thier economies. As Friedman points out, countries' economies collapse if their fiscal operations are not "transparent and Open".

May I respecfully suggest, Mr. Blatham, that you re-read the Stigliz article. I think you missed several important points.
0 Replies
 
 

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