Too Much Discipline/Too Strict?

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What if any are tell tail signs that show a parent is being too strict with their child? The reason I am asking is that I have always felt that my husband is too strict. I think a child should be able to be a child and not perfectly behaved - basically have some fun. Not that my husband is against having fun, but things that seem to not matter to me or to be minor, he punishes or gets angry about. I have spoken with him before and basically said she is only 4 or 5 years old (depending on her age at the time), she cannot possibly understand that or she is too young to be punished so severely. Sometimes my husband agrees, but many times he will insist that she needs to learn to behave.

In general she is very well behaved; we are always told how well behaved she is by others and her pre-school teacher commented, as she is a wonderful, wonderful child. My parents also take care of my daughter a couple of days a week. My daughter frequently is a monster (for lack of a better word) with them. She will call my mother names (stupid) and throw fits. I have witnessed these fits and they are not pretty. It usually does not last long (an hour) and she calms down and is as sweet as ever. She has also stated that she would prefer my brother as her dad and is very happy when my husband is not present when I take my daughters out some where. She has actually said she does not want daddy to go - just mommy, her and her sister. My mom, who has never butted in before, asked if she could say something. She stated that she felt my husband was being too strict and this may be why my daughter is so fresh on occasion. At a family gathering, all the young kids were sort of being kids, following around, playing and my husband reprimanded my daughter. My daughter got embarrassed and very quiet after.

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Sounds like she's full of repressed anger at her daddy being too strict and she lets fly at the grandparents. He's making her withdraw and that's not good! Tell him to lighten up. She's a kid!

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That was my take, but I am a little close and personally involved in the situation so I wanted an unbiased opinion. I will take a more assertive role in speaking with him when I notice this happening.

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NickFun wrote:

Sounds like she's full of repressed anger at her daddy being too strict and she lets fly at the grandparents.

Or she's simply being a brat with them because she knows she can get away with it then.

Maybe he is being to strict or maybe he isn't. There really isn't any way for anyone to tell without observing the two of them and knowing what to look for.

To me the larger issue would be that the two of you aren't showing a united front. You and your husband need to sit down and discuss what is or isn't allowable and then both enforce the same standards.

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Linking your husband's disclipine and your daughter's misbehavior at her grandparents would be very satisfactory--but I'm not sure how accurate the linkage would be. If she were acting out resentment at her miserable home life, she'd act out everywhere.

Is it possible that your mother "permits" the brattiness on some level to "prove" to you that your husband is too strict?

I agree with fishin'--you and your husband should be presenting a united front.

What do you say when your daughter announces that she doesn't want daddy along? If she's this clever at minipulating her parents at the age of five, ten years down the road when she is a seething sweet sixteen you are going to be a very interesting family for the professionals.

Talk to your husband about getting an objective opinion on disclipine and the other areas of conflict in your marriage. This would make the whole family stronger and happier.

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One thing is even if I do not agree with his tactic, I do not disagree with him in front of my daughter. What I do is discuss with him after. I do not show that we are not united or undermine what he has set for her.

The majority of things we do agree with, it is the little items, like yelling loudly in the house or singing loudly in the car. If it makes them happy and they are having a good time and not harming anyone, I see no problem. Whereas, it bothers him. If the kids are having a little argument, I let them work it out unless something physical starts occurring, whereas he will jump in and stop it immediately.

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I showed my husband some passages from one of my grad school text books. :-) ("Child Development", by Laura E. Berk -- for my M.Ed.) It talked about the difference between authoritative parenting and authoritarian parenting. It made an impression on him. I have it right here, just a sec (I'm going to type it, so please excuse typos):

Quote:

Authoritative style
A parenting style that is demanding and responsive. A rational, democartic approach in whch both parent's and children's rights are respected. [that's a sidebar]

-snip-

[from body of text]

Preschoolers were separated into adjustment categries by psychologists who observed them over several months at nursery school. One group, the "mature" preschoolers, differed sharply rom others in that their parents used a set of child-rearing techniques called the authoritative style. Authoritative parents make reasonable demands for maturity, and they enforce them by setting limits and insisting on obdeience. at the same time, they express warmth and affection, listen patiently to their child's point of view, and encourage participation in family decision making.

-snip-

[sidebar]
Authoritarian Style
A parenting style thta is demanding but low in responsiveness to children's rights and needs. Conformity adn obedience are valued over open communication.

-snip-

[body of text]

Parents who use an authoritarian style are also demanding, but they [;ace such a high vlauhe on conformity that they are unresponsive -- even downright rejecting -- when children are unwilling to obey. "Do it because I say so!" is the attitude of these parents. As a result, they engage in very little give-and-take with children, who are expected to acept an adult's word for what is right in an unquestioning manner. If the child does not, the authoritarian parents resort to force and punishment. The authoritarian style is clearly biased in favor of parents' needs; children's self-expression and independence are suppressed.

[researcher] found that preschoolers with authoritarian parents were anxious, withdrawn, and unhappy. When interacting with peers, they tended to react with hostility when frustrated.

Ow.

It also has some cool graphs and stuff.

I very much agree with fishin' about a united front. Your parents are caregivers too, you should all meet and figure these things out.

I agree as well with the "get away with it" part, with a caveat. I am generally the more permissive parent, but when things are going well, I have no need for laying down the law -- I ask the kid to do something, and she says "sure!" and does it. I have noticed a direct correllation when my husband's patience is at low ebb and he eases into more "because I said so" orders, the kid then takes it out on me the next day -- I ask her to do something, and she says "no!" Rolling Eyes

So it is less the permissiveness or not as the consistency, IMO. And that's where it is important to get everyone on the same page, and then present a united front -- all of you.

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I don't think my mom's comment about my husband being too strict has to do with proving anything. That is my mom made this comment one time to me a couple of days ago, after witnessing one incidence where (even in my opinion) was a little strict. Not severe, but just letting my daughter know to calm down. Her "brattiness" has been occurring for months prior to this. Also, this is the first and only time my mom has ever made a negative comment about my husband or even made any suggestions on how to raise our children. So it is not at all like her.

When my daughter mentions she does not want daddy along, I stress how nice it is to spend time together. How much daddy does for her and how much fun she has with him. They do love playing baseball together and he coaches her team.

I think an objective opinion would be helpful and that is what I am looking for - this is not a matter of being right or wrong, but a matter of what is best for our children. I was just wondering if anyone knew that these could be signs of him being too strict. We do have a difference level of tolerance and I respect his and realize that is probably why he is quicker to punish than I am. I usually think things through before reacting whereas he typically is the opposite.

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Oh one more thing that's helped with us...

I notice that they (sozlet and hubby) get into feedback loops. Like, if he has been having a hard time, his patience is at low ebb, she annoys him more easily, she doesn't want to spend time with him as much, she's not as pleasant to him, he is more annoyed... so what I do when I see that happening is suggest they have a day together. They do love each other an awful lot, and like spending time together, and when hubby gets out of super-stressed work mindset and just starts enjoying her, that starts a feedback loop in the other direction -- she's sweet and funny, he's happy to be with her, she's happy to be with him, he's more relaxed, etc., etc.

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Great thoughts sozobe. It sounds a little like my husband. They have done some afternoons in the past when his workload was lighter. Also the playing baseball is also a great time for them. They do have great times together and she does love him, I think it may be that he has a shorter fuse and when he has had a tough time, he has an even shorter fuse. Some times when he stops and thinks he listens really well and then calmly talks to her about her behavior and this works wonders. However, other times he has no patience and then it is like you said above .."Because I said so..". This morning he talked with her about her behaving at her grandparent's house and asked her what she thinks should happen if she does not behave. She determined to our satisfaction what her punishment should be so sometimes he does think like me.

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One thing to remember here. Men-as-a-Group tend to have less patience with childish little ways than do Women-as-a-Group. One of the advantages of having two parents is learning how two different adults react to the same sorts of behavior.

Personally, I have no tolerance for unnecessary noise--(meaning noise I deem unnecessary). I have a great deal of patience with spilled milk--although I'm quite likely to move the glass out of danger before the spill happens.

Your daughter is learning that daddy and mommie, men and women are different--and how to cope with different people. This is no bad thing.

Does your mother take care of other children? Could your daughter feel dethroned when her cousins are around?

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I like the different reactions thing, but think there should still be parameters beyond which a parent just shouldn't do it -- both too strict and too permissive.

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Sosobe--

Agreed. All the same every child should be exposed to just a bit of parental imperfection in order to learn to love in spite of flaws.

Of course I never had to make a point of being imperfect--I just let it happen on a daily basis.

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Noddy you may have hit it on the nose. My daughter was the first born grandchild to my parents. Since then a little sister and a little cousin. My mom watches all of them on certain days. She was once the apple of everyone's eyes, but now there are two other little cute girls coming onto her turf. Also she is a wonderful little girl when she is the center of attention- she thrives on it. In addition, at least with me, the melt downs typically occur during the same time of day, early evening - I like to call it the bewitching hour. I think she is a little hyper from the day, but beginning to tire so it is almost that transition time.

Any hoot - I personally feel that my husband is a little too strict (not to the point where it is a problem to my children), but more than what I am. For the most part, I don't have an issue, just on the occassion when it is carried too far, I just wanted to get an overall opinion if some of my daughter's behaviors could be a result of being too strict. Seeing I am so close to the matter - I wanted to see other viewpoints.

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linkat--

Thanks for the kind words.

Did you know that the senile elderly tend to fall apart at twilight time? The medical parlance is "sundowning". The logic is that coping all day isn't easy to do and the patient gets to a point where "Enough is Enough."

Your daughter will outgrown sundowning--and if this is a problem for her in 80 years, you probably won't be one of her caregivers.

Another thought: Low blood sugar may be part of the grease on the slippery end of your daughter's emotional rope. Might giving her a piece of fruit or even a small glass of juice head off trouble?

Hold your dominion.

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What's the best way to deal with brattiness overall?

Last night my little one (almost 3) complained about everything at dinner. I make a point of not making special meals, just serving a bunch of things and including stuff she has eaten before. She didn't want anything, although she hadn't eaten much earlier that day. She was angry when I didn't get her something else to eat and started whining. So I ignored her. She knocked her peas and corn (usually a favorite) on the floor. I just stared at her. She cried, but persisted in behavior she knows I don't like. She smeared her pasta sauce all over her arms and face. I abruptly ended the meal and cleaned her up. I continued to ignore her, which caused her to cry some more. Eventually, when she calmed down some, I picked her up and cuddled her a bit, and talked to her some more about what upset me.

I don't know if my approach is correct. Her whining, defiant episodes seem to be increasing.

A few months ago she was having frequent bouts of terrible twos, then they lessened significantly, and now seemed to have made a return.

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Did I mention that when it came time to put her bib on, she wanted to do it herself. So I let her, but she was having problems and getting frustrated. So I took a few steps toward her. She yelled, "no, mommy, go away! Cook!"

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primer your little one sounds so cute! Sounds like you have your hands full with that one and it sounds a little like my soon to be 2 year old (the independent part) - she always wants to do everything herself. Her favorite thing to say is "I do it."

For my older daughter when she has a melt down I usually just put her in her room until she calms down. Similar to how you ignore your child. I cannot think of any other way to handle and keep my cool too.

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Diagnosing without being there is dangerous, but I'd guess low blood sugar and/or fatigue.

Starting with the bib, your baby was loaded for bear and aiming at you--and everyone was deprived of a gracious dining experience.

In your place if I were sure that she deliberately dumped the peas and carrots on the floor, I would have removed her from the dinner table--at least for a time out while I cleaned up the mess.

Then I would have asked her whether or not she felt like being a pleasant person--and I'd have held her to her answer.

"Yes." Another go round at gracious dining.

"No." Bedtime--not nastily, but matter-of-fact that when people are too tired to be pleasant, bed is where they belong. You wouldn't have been punishing her--you'd have been teaching her and acceptable alternative to handling fatigue.

Has she had any changes in her life lately? A sibling starting school or back to school? Any changes in parental schedules? Any bugs going around the neighborhood? She's got a reason for her moods.

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Funny you should ask about bugs, Noddy. She may be coming down with a case of stomach flu (though she seems to be sleeping peacefully).

She just started preschool, which she seems to love.

We've been trying to potty train, and have experienced a lot of set-backs after early success several weeks ago.

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Too Much Discipline/Too Strict?

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