"Out on my @ss"

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That is what my soon to be ex husband keeps implying when we talk about our future living arrangements. He says he's worried about me, how I'm going to make it...and survive.

Here's some details and what he's thinking:

(He's still in the mindframe too that because I cheated (internet) that I deserve to be punished (true to an extent but not at the sake of our children.)

He has a business that he can work out of his home office.
He wants to keep the house and be the girls' primary caregiver.
He doesn't want to sell the house because we just bought it in April and we would probably lose money if we sold it.
We have the house, one car completely paid for, a leased car, and about $7,000 in other debt.

Is he right when he's thinking that he can keep the house, then we'll had up all the other assets and divide those? The debt too? Doesn't seem fair at all.

Plus I've been a housewife for 10 years...supporting him, taking care of our children. I have a degree, but I have to go get one more year of student teaching before I could teach with it. I mean....it seems like should be some sort of spousal support coming my way??

Anyway, I'd appreciate some thoughts on this?

We were thinking mediataion....but I want to make SURE I don't get screwed over in this.

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He doesn't have any inherent right to the house and neither do you from what you've listed here. Who gets what would be decided by a mediator or judge.

He may very well end up with the house. Or you may. If either of you get it you may very well find that you have to buy out the other's half (or at least half of any equity). If you are in a Community Property state assests (and debts) aquired during the marriage get divided up very close to 50/50.

Spousal support is pretty much up for grabs nowadays. You might get some, you may not. I doubt there is any automatic entitlement to any though.

Call a few divorce lawyers in your area. Most will give free initial consults and you can pose these questions to them. It'll also help you determine who you might be comfortable with should you decide you need one to represent you.

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I'm still not certain how an internet affair is cheating... Confused

Correct me if I'm wrong, but how do bodily fluids get passed through computers? SO, wouldn't you just be doing yourself to a fantasy of some~one~thing that isn't real? How is that an affair? Confused

I mean, I can see how it could be cheating, like snatching that last cream puff in the freezer, or chocolate in the cubboard might be sinfully & deliciously consumed without your partner's permission or knowledge, but diddling yourself while typing into a computer seems like pretty lame-ass cheating if you ask me... Confused

Of course, then again, you didn't actually ask me... Embarrassed

I'm just putting my $0.02 in a day late and $1.00 short...

Since talk is cheap, and my opinion not much more valuable, I am going to share a little joke about cybersex to drive home my point that it's not the same calliber action as a physical coital affair

Quote:

Online computer users may engage in what is affectionately known as "cybersex". Often the fantasies typed into keyboards and shared through internet phone lines get pretty raunchy However, as you'll see below, one of the two cyber-surfers in the following transcript of an online chat doesn't seem to quite get the point of cyber sex. Then again, maybe he does.................

Wellhung: Hello, Sweetheart. What do you look like?

Sweetheart: I am wearing a red silk blouse, a miniskirt and high heels. I work out every day, I'm toned and perfect. My measurements are 36-24-36. What do you look like?

Wellhung: I'm 6'3" and about 250 pounds. I wear glasses and I have on a pair of blue sweat pants I just bought from WalMart. I'm also wearing a T-shirt with a few spots of barbecue sauce on it from dinner... it smells funny.

Sweetheart: I want you. Would you like to screw me?

Wellhung: OK...sure.

Sweetheart: We're in my bedroom. There's soft music playing on the stereo, and there are candles on my dresser and night table. I'm looking up into your eyes, smiling. My hand works its way down to your crotch and begins to fondle your huge, swelling bulge.

Wellhung: I'm gulping. I'm beginning to sweat.

Sweetheart: I'm pulling up your shirt and kissing your chest. Wellhung: Now I'm unbuttoning your blouse. My hands are trembling. Sweetheart: I'm moaning softly.

Wellhung: I'm taking hold of your blouse and sliding it off slowly.

Sweetheart: I'm throwing my head back in pleasure. The cool silk slides off my warm skin. I'm rubbing your bulge faster, pulling and rubbing.

Wellhung: My hand suddenly jerks spastically and accidentally rips a hole in your blouse. I'm sorry.

Sweetheart: That's OK, it wasn't really too expensive.

Wellhung: I'll pay for it.

Sweetheart: Don't worry about it. I'm wearing a lacy black bra. My soft breasts are rising and falling, as I breathe harder and harder.

Wellhung: I'm fumbling with the clasp on your bra. I think it's stuck. Do you have any scissors?

Sweetheart: I take your hand and kiss it softly. I'm reaching back undoing the clasp. The bra slides off my body. The air caresses my breasts. My nipples are erect for you.

Wellhung: How did you do that? I'm picking up the bra and inspecting the clasp.

Sweetheart: I'm arching my back. Oh baby. I just want to feel your tongue all over me.

Wellhung: I'm dropping the bra. Now I'm licking your, you know...breasts. They're neat!

Sweetheart: I'm running my fingers through your hair. Now I'm nibbling your ear.

Wellhung: I suddenly sneeze. Your breasts are covered with spit and phlegm.

Sweetheart: What??

Wellhung: I'm so sorry. Really.

Sweetheart: I'm wiping your phlegm off my breasts with the remains of my blouse.

Wellhung: I'm taking the sopping wet blouse from you. I drop it with a plop.

Sweetheart: OK. I'm pulling your sweat pants down and rubbing your hard tool.

Wellhung: I'm screaming like a woman. Your hands are cold!! Yeeeee!!!

Sweetheart: I'm pulling up my miniskirt. Taking off my panties.

Wellhung: I'm pulling off your panties. My tongue is going all over, in and out nibbling on your...ummm..... wait a minute.

Sweetheart: What's the matter?

Wellhung: I've got a pubic hair caught in my throat. I'm choking.

Sweetheart: Are you OK ?

Wellhung: I'm having a coughing fit. I'm turning all red.

Sweetheart: Can I help?

Wellhung: I'm running to the kitchen, choking wildly. I'm fumbling through the cabinets, looking for a cup. Where do you keep your cups?

Sweetheart: In the cabinet to the right of the sink.

Wellhung: I'm drinking a cup of water. There, that's better.

Sweetheart: Come back to me, lover.

Wellhung: I'm washing the cup now.

Sweetheart: I'm on the bed arching for you.

Wellhung: I'm drying the cup. Now, I'm putting it back in the cabinet, and now I'm walking back to the bedroom. Wait, it's dark, I'm lost. Where's the bedroom?

Sweetheart: Last door on the left at the end of the hall.

Wellhung: I found it.

Sweetheart: I'm tugging off your pants. I'm moaning. I want you so = badly.

Wellhung: Me too.

Sweetheart: Your pants are off. I kiss you passionately - our naked = bodies pressing against each other

Wellhung: Your face is pushing my glasses into my face. It hurts.

Sweetheart: Why don't you take off your glasses?

Wellhung: OK, but I can't see very well without them. I place the glasses on the night table

Sweetheart: I'm bending over the bed. Give it to me, baby !

Wellhung: I have to pee. I'm fumbling my way blindly across the room and toward the bathroom.

Sweetheart: Hurry back, lover.

Wellhung: I find the bathroom and it's dark. I'm feeling around for the toilet, I lift the lid.

Sweetheart: I'm waiting eagerly for your return.

Wellhung: I'm done going. I'm feeling around for the flush handle, but I can't find it. Uh-oh!!

Sweetheart: What's the matter now ?

Wellhung: I've just realized that I've peed into your laundry hamper. Sorry again. I'm walking back to the bedroom now, blindly feeling my way.

Sweetheart: Mmm, yes. Come on.

Wellhung: OK, now I'm going to put my.... you know... thing...in your...you know... woman's thing.

Sweetheart: Yes! Do it, baby! Do it!!

Wellhung: I'm touching your smooth butt. It feels so nice. I kiss your neck. Umm, I have a little trouble here.

Sweetheart: I'm moving my butt back and forth, moaning. I can't stand it another second! Slide in! Screw me now!!

Wellhung: I'm flaccid.

Sweetheart: What?

Wellhung: I'm limp. I can't sustain an erection.

Sweetheart: I'm standing up and turning around; an incredulous look on my face.

Wellhung: I'm shrugging with a sad look on my face, my weiner all floppy. I'm going to get my glasses and see what's wrong.

Sweetheart: No, never mind. I'm getting dressed. I'm putting on my underwear. Now I'm putting on my wet, nasty blouse.

Wellhung: No, wait! Now I'm squinting, trying to find the night table. I'm feeling along the dresser, knocking over cans of hair spray, picture frames and your candles.

Sweetheart: I'm buttoning my blouse. Now I'm putting on my shoes.

Wellhung: I've found my glasses. I'm putting them on. My God! One of your candles fell on the curtain. The curtain in on fire! I'm pointing at it, a shocked look on my face.

Sweetheart: Go to hell. I'm logging off, you loser!

Wellhung: Now the carpet is on fire. Oh noooooo!!

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The house goes to the custodial parent so the children's lives will be disrupted as little as possible.

To balance, I'd suggest that the other parent get the paid for car.

Is there any chance that a physical separation can be delayed until you've done your student teaching and are on your feet financially.

What about health insurance--this is a biggie these days?

If possible try to sort the property settlement out between you rather than paying lawyers to dicker on your behave. Paradoxically cheap divorces are much more valuable for everyone than expensive divorces.

Good luck.

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princess has got me thinking...you did have a real affair, correct? i thought you met the guy online, but then you did meet up with him. please clarify.

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Pam, no, I have never physically touched this man. Just hours and housrs of phone and internet and umm...webcam. :wink:

princess, I'm LMAO. Thank you!

Noddy, from the research I've done, it looks like I might still be able to qualify for some of his health benefits. I don't know.

And he's not wanting to delay the physical seperation for very long so that isn't an option.

Hmmm....I'll come back when I have more time here to answer more questions. Thanks all for your support and advice.

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justanother--

Remember, he does not automatically make the rules. You are equal divorcing partners.

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Bookmark.

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Tell him (and you too) to stop assuming anything. There is no 50/50, and you've done nothing wrong if you haven't actually met this person.

Equitable does NOT mean 50/50. It means Equitable, which is decided by a mediator or judge, Depending on which state you live in, you may or may not get alimony. I was a stay at home mom for 10 years when Bear and I separated. (We reconciled 2 years later) I got the house, child support and alimony since he had been the sole provider. That was in NC, with me representing myself (don't try this at home) and without any cheating by either of us.

Unless you want him to have your daughters, you need to get rid of the unnecessary guilt and stand up.

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Re: "Out on my @ss"

justanotherhousewife wrote:

He wants to keep the house and be the girls' primary caregiver.

Are you okay with this?

This means that YOU will be required to leave the house, go to work immediately, and PAY child support to HIM. Both parents have a duty to support the children. The noncustodial parent must make monetary support payments to the custodial parent. Child support is a non-negotiable item. A custodial parent is not allowed to bargain away his children's right to support.

You will be allowed to see the children every other weekend, every other major holiday, and a couple weeks plus during the summer so you may vacation together.

Generally, in a divorce case, a judge will continue through a custody order the child care arrangement that the parties agreed to during their marriage. In your marriage, you and your husband agreed that YOU would stay home with the children, be the children's primary caretaker, and that HE would supply the financial support. The children's best interest would best be served by continuity and stability.

There is no fault on your part--there was no adultery. An internet infatuation is not "adultery" because there was no sexual intercourse. Even if you feel guilty about your internet infatuation, so what? Are you okay with giving up primary custody of your children simply because you feel guilty? Get over your guilt and start looking out for the best interests of yourself and your children.

You were the stay at home mom for the children for 10 years--NOT HIM. Is it really in the children's best interest for you to walk out the door and leave the children with him as their custodial parent? Think about it!

Quote:

He doesn't want to sell the house because we just bought it in April and we would probably lose money if we sold it.

This only means that there is no equity in the house to divide and whoever is awarded the house will be stuck with the payments. After the divorce, you will need to live within your means. That means both of you. It is far more expensive to support two households than it is one and your ex-husband might not be able to afford the house payments AND make spousal support payments and child support payments to YOU at the same time.

You both need to be considering the economic practicalities. Unless you can afford to make the house payments, it may be best to sell the house for what is owed against it so that all parties involved can find affordable housing.

Quote:

We have the house, one car completely paid for, a leased car, and about $7,000 in other debt.

If you have no income, how can you afford to pay half of the debt and the lease on a car? You need to compare your earning capacity and his earning capacity. Between the two of you, who earns the most and who is the one most capable of paying the debt? If he makes 50 grand a year and you're making nothing, how can it be equitable to saddle you with half the debt?

Quote:

I've been a housewife for 10 years...supporting him, taking care of our children. I have a degree, but I have to go get one more year of student teaching before I could teach with it. I mean....it seems like should be some sort of spousal support coming my way??

Yes. Consult with an attorney NOW.

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(A quick comment: princesspupule, your joke was very, very funny!)

Now back to the topic .....

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Reading this and your other posts, justan, makes me think that your husband was looking for an excuse to end the marriage. No matter how jealous someone is about the Internet, sheesh, it's not like you ran off to a motel. Your kids were cared for. The neighbors did not see a strange man's car in your driveway. No one ran into you and someone else at the Bowl-o-rama or wherever.

And, hubby has another agenda: he wants the house, the kids and his debts covered. Does he also want a Swedish masseuse for the kids' nanny? Would be perhaps enjoy it if the judge placed mints on his pillow every night? Certainly, if nothing else, he wants you to be complicit in his message to your children: Mommy is bad and I'm good, and it's time you learned that. Isn't Dad the greatest?

He is not without fault (I'm referencing your question re what to tell the kids). You do not have to just skulk away with nothing.

Get thee to a lawyer RIGHT NOW![/color]

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I guess Jespah is right...since it was an internet fling(which is still negative for your marriages sake, but at least it wasn't a sneaky affair where you're meeting up and such) he is overreacting.

But also, you want to end the marriage too, correct?

So yes, go get a good lawyer involved today...so that you can protect the girls, and yourself.

Lots of us have done it already. Be strong!

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Yup. You need a lawyer ASAP!!!!

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Pam, yes, I'm the one that wants a divorce.

He is now...well he goes back and forth...but he was trying to fight for the marriage. He was willing to forgive me. But I just can't do it...I can't stay in a marriage and try to learn to love him, try to learn to desire him sexually when I've been so unhappy for all these years. I loved him, yes....as a friend. We were roomates. I lied to him inovertly by doing my "wifely duties" (though not often at all), I lied to him by having children with him (thinking they would solve our problems....I could love them instead and just be happy with that, but it continues).

Anyway, he does NOT want to go with lawyers. He's so afraid that it will put us into such great debt. I'm unsure if I will be treated fairly with a mediator.

My biggest problem right now is that he still says I can't live here while we wait for the house to sell. I don't have friends in the area to stay with. Legally I don't have to leave...I know that. But he says, it's just not fair...he doesn't want the divorce...he didn't cheat, it's too hard to live with me, etc etc. (I'm not being mean or vindictive, btw...honestly) He's right, it's not fair...but short of taking out half of what's in the bank account (which I wouldn't do because then our girls would suffer), I have no other option than to stay put until the house sells OR I make money. Besides....how is it going to look to the courts if I leave the home before him? Can I get it in writing that he asked me to leave?

I'm trying to find a job, start saving for an apt...for first/last/sec/ moving expenses because in the mean time...I have NO money. My parents are not supporting me on my decision.

I have to find out where my credit report stands....I just don't know where to start with all of this. I have to get a loan....something????

In the midst of knowing how SCREWED I am and how *ucked up this is....I mean this is the hardest thing I've EVER EVER had to decide. I'm losing SO much...and it's all my decision...do I think it's all my fault like he does? NO....so in the midst of all this...I know deep down in my heart that this is what is right.

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justanotherhousewife wrote:

Anyway, he does NOT want to go with lawyers. He's so afraid that it will put us into such great debt. I'm unsure if I will be treated fairly with a mediator.

Go see some lawyers anyway. Take the free consult.

Perhaps if you suggested to him (nicely) that if he'd quit being an ass about it you two could come to some sort of mutual understanding as far as assets, debts, etc.. the cost (even using a lawyer) becomes pretty minor.

It becomes expensive when people decide to use the divorce as a grudge match and if he wants a grudge match it'll cost him.

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You both (HIM included) will just have to accept the fact that neither of you will be as well off after the divorce as you are now. Sorry, that's just the facts of life.

Of course he doesn't want to go with lawyers! It's not to his advantage! However, it IS to your advantage. Fishin' is right...attorneys' fees only become outrageous if the two soon-to-be ex-spouses decide to fight. Free consultations won't cost you anything, and will give you a much better understanding of what you both should expect to get. Just don't select a lawyer who seems determined to turn this into a big fight.

The temptation for most women in divorce is to give up far too many assets & rights in order to maintain "harmony" with their ex. Unfortunately, that rarely happens because later they resent not getting their fair share. Don't let this happen to you. Be sure you don't settle for less than you should...especially because with the disparity in income, your husband will be able to recover from the financial setback much more quickly than you will.

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I agree, lawyer, right now. Not just any lawyer, talk to a few, and yes, quietly. Not to be sneaky, but to gain yourself quiet time, which you deserve.

quit it with the guilt. Just throw it on to me, I am an older guilt bearer.

People will sway you this way and that. My hope for you is that you can look at yourself anew, from some feet away and start to click with what you see.

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justanotherhousewife wrote:

Anyway, he does NOT want to go with lawyers. He's so afraid that it will put us into such great debt. I'm unsure if I will be treated fairly with a mediator.

My biggest problem right now is that he still says I can't live here while we wait for the house to sell. I don't have friends in the area to stay with. Legally I don't have to leave...I know that. But he says, it's just not fair...he doesn't want the divorce...he didn't cheat, it's too hard to live with me, etc etc. (I'm not being mean or vindictive, btw...honestly) He's right, it's not fair...but short of taking out half of what's in the bank account (which I wouldn't do because then our girls would suffer), I have no other option than to stay put until the house sells OR I make money. Besides....how is it going to look to the courts if I leave the home before him? Can I get it in writing that he asked me to leave?

So what if he doesn't want lawyers involved? He doesn't want YOU to have a lawyer. If you don't have legal representation, that makes it so much easier for him to manipulate you and walk all over you. That's what he's doing now--manipulating you.

Perhaps he has been manipulating you the entire time you have known him. He has a knack at making you cater to his needs and his feelings, doesn't he? You were manipulated into a marriage that you really didn't want; you were manipulated in staying for ten years; you were manipulated into being dependent on him for financial support. You are easily manipulated because you are a woman with little self-esteem. You let him have total control over your life because it was easier to let him control.

You can be spineless and self-doubting and let him continue to manipulate you----or you can stand up for yourself and the best interests of your children. It's time for you to stop beating yourself up. You don't want to be married to him anymore. PERIOD. You have good reasons for your decision to end this marriage--now you have to muster up some courage and a sense of self worth--and MARCH FORWARD.

GET A LAWYER NOW.

YOU need to inform him that YOU want full physical custody of the children. If he does not agree to that----well then he will have to pay for his attorney and YOUR attorney and you won't stop fighting until you win custody. (All the best interest factors weigh in YOUR favor--unless you move out of the family home and leave the children with HIM. If you do that, then you can probably kiss custody of your children good-bye.)

If he is uncomfortable living in the same house as YOU until the house is sold----then HE SHOULD MOVE OUT. He can rent a cheap apartment or sleeping room--so that he can pay the bills and pay support. This is your family home--the children's family home--and it is easier (and cheaper) for him to move out rather than to disrupt the lives of your children. If he is NOT living there, he will be much more motivated to get the house sold. If he stays in the house and YOU LEAVE, he will not be motivated to sell--and he will claim there is no money left over for YOU.

If he refuses to leave the family home and pay reasonable support while the divorce is pending, then your attorney can take immediate action and get an interim order. Believe me, no judge is going to throw a stay-at-home mom and two kids out on the street because the dad wants the house. Whether it's "fair" to him or not, the best interests of the children override his feelings.

You have a college degree, but you may need to take some refresher courses to prepare you for student teaching. You might not be able to student teach this school year--(I assume your youngest child is in kindergarten)--but you can probably get things arranged to student teach the following year. After that, you will need to get certified as a teacher and put in a year or two as a substitute teacher before you can get a full-time position.

Because you were economically disadvantaged by the marriage (and will be economically disadvantaged by the divorce), you are entitled to rehabilitative spousal support. Basically, you will probably require rehabilitative spousal support for the next 3 to 5 years. This is not an unreasonable expectation in order to rehabilitate your earning capacity and to assist you to become self-supporting.

Again, your soon-to-be ex-husband might not think that's fair, but don't allow yourself to be manipulated by his whining. He was out in the work world for 10 years developing and enhancing his earning capacity while you stayed at home, took care of the home and family, and raised the kids. It is FAIR for him to pay rehabilitative spousal support so you can mitigate the economic disadvantage.

GET AN ATTORNEY NOW. Don't let him manipulate you. He isn't being FAIR to you. Stand up for yourself--protect yourself!

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I know it isn't easy to just wake up and listen to Debra, but she is right re how some of us got into thinking of ourselves because of how things seemed to be.

I too say, get a lawyer now. Interview more than one, but pick one and protect yourself. Do not be a carpet in your own life.

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"Out on my @ss"

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