Kerry didnt do his reserve time either

I'm wrong?
Name me one person that wasnt drafted,or already in the service,that went to Vietnam.
Name me one civilian that fought in Vietnam.
Besides,I said that the only "legal obligation" was to register for the draft.
I said nothing else.
I also said that the only people that had a "legal obligation" were those in the military,and who were ordered to go.I was very specific.I'm sorry you read what wasnt there.

How stupid this is.

Why don't we all just believe everything that each side has said about the other.

That would make Kerry a guy who didn't serve, and a guy who shot a kid in the back while he was in Vietam, a coward, a flip-flopper, and a communist who wants to tax the country into bankruptcy.

Bush is a guy who didn't serve, knew about 9-11 ahead of time and let it happen, a moron, a Hitler wannabe, a privileged smarmy lying piece of **** cokehead who wants to kill everyone outside the U.S., and hates gay people.

Now who you gonna vote for?

Um.....if you put it that way.....Kerry.

Let's see...

"didn't serve" vs. "didn't serve" (that's a tie)
"shot one kid" vs. "let 9-11 happen" (I'd prefer losing only one)
"coward" vs. "moron" (I'll take the coward)
"flip-flopper" vs. "Hitler wannabe" (I'll take the flip-flopper)
"communist who wants to tax the country into bankruptcy" vs. "privileged smarmy lying piece of **** cokehead who wants to kill everyone outside the U.S" (I'll take the communist tax-lover)
...and Bush hates gays.

Pretty clear choice, kicky. Thanks for lining it out for us.

Kucinich

Where the hell is Harry Truman when you need him?

I said that the only "legal obligation" was to register for the draft.
I said nothing else.
I also said that the only people that had a "legal obligation" were those in the military,and who were ordered to go.I was very specific.I'm sorry you read what wasnt there.

Oh, and if you got a high lottery number like I did (264 0ut of 365) you were off the hook in 1969.

But if you got a low number, like say between 100 and 130, you'd better start singing 1,2,3 what're we fighting for. . . And between zero and a hundred, you'd stay in school unless you were a staunch believer that the Containment Theory applied to Viet Nam, and our National Security depended on our presence there.

Under Nixon a lot of people felt that way. Most of them were not of draft age.

But to say of the unwilling who were eligibel that they had "no legal obligation to serve." You couldn't be more specifically incorrect.

The "Legal Obligation" consisted of registering for the draft, and, if in fact called up and inducted, to serve per orders. Not all who were called up were inducted, nor, by any stretch, did all who were inducted serve in Vietnam. In point of fact, during the Vietnam Era, a total of some 12 Million individuals served in the Armed Forces of The United State, around a quarter of them draftees. Of that 12 Million or so, only about a quarter - roughly 2.8 Million - actually served in Vietnam.

I wasn't drafted.



My buddy on the left there, though, pretty much was drafted.

pad,
my brother was drafted,and spent his whole tour in Germany.So,not everyone that was drafted went to Vietnam,and not every soldier in Vietnam was drafted.

Padmasambava seems to have trouble differentiating between registering, being drafted, being inducted, and being assigned.

kerry - 1968-1969 = vietnam ..... bush - 1968-1969 = texas

Sorta seems The Democrat's "Plan for the future" consists mostly of reviving the '70s, don't it?

Oh, well ... by the way the polls have been trending, the success the Dems are gaining is the success they merit for that approach. I rather hope they keep it up ... that significantly lessens the work required to prevent them from foisting their bankrupt agenda on The American People.

god forbid! once was enough.

i just keep hopin' that if i repeat it enough we can move on to something else.

doesn't seem to be workin' though.

just curious,where were you in 68-69?

in kentucky. in the 6th grade. watching the freakin' body count every gawdamm night on a little t.v. that occupied the empty place at our dinner table.

how about you?

I have no problem telling my registration card from my draft status card. But then I can account for where I was in 1968 and 1969 and I already told you I got lucky in the draft lottery.

Someone here is very much projecting. He obviously is too young to have been more than a wink in someone's eye during '68 and '69. Or at best he'd have been an infant.

If one was not in school, it took about a month or two for them to call you to come in for a physical in '68 or '69.

In '68 I had a poor grade in one course - and the policy of my school was to allow you to return if you withdrew from school without being compelled to take a whole year off. You'd have to do an extra semester which was a bit punitive in terms of more tuition but at least your neck wasn't on the block.

I was "unmatriculated" long enough to get the call for the physical after even after I had re-enrolled. I was lucky I had re-enrolled because the army would have been delighted to have me, poor eyesight and all. They gave me a 1A.

Those who got off were conscientious objectors and people with mental and physical defects. Most people didn't have an excuse and so they opted to stay in school and if a window opened some were willing to fake homosexuality (which was not acceptable then) or to develop physical or psychological complaints.

There's the joke about the guy who tries to taint his urine and within minutes an official comes into the exam room and says:

"Your wife is pregnant your dog has diabetes and you're in the Army!"

I don't know where you get this notion that the draft was somehow a random phenomenon sparing the many and taking the few in the period of the Viet Nam war during LBJ's and Nixon's presidencies. It's simply misinformation. I was there. So were the others here who are questioning your statements, those of you who think I'm confused about the sixties.

I turned twenty in sixty eight. I remember it too well. If you weren't in school, and if you weren't an enthusiast for the military like Jimi Hendrix had been (a paratrooper) you were very likely to get drafted and go off to war kicking and a sceaming or a bit somber. Perhaps not. But they'd get you. And if you wound up in Garmisch-Partenkirchen or in Japan, you were lucky.

I lost quite a few friends. I know far fewer heroes although my brother in law works in Hyannis and knows and likes Kerry, so indirectly I can say I know of at least one hero of Viet Nam who my family knows.

Pad,if you are saying that everyone that registered was drafted,you yourself prove that statement wrong.
So,if you werent drafted,and if you didnt enlist,then what "legal obligation" did you have to go to Vietnam?
Answer...none.
Again,I said if you were not drafted and sent tom Vietnam,or if you were not already in the service and sent to Vietnam,then you had no legal obligation to go.
The only obligation you had was to register for the draft.
How hard is that for you to understand?

You were legally obligated to go into the service after the draft called, as well. Even if the call came after you graduated college.

Heavens, how hard is that to understand?

If you were drafted or enlisted, you might not get sent to VietNam.

However, that decision was purely up to the branch of service you were in. If you were drafted, you were in the Army. If you enlisted, you could be in any branch. Any of them could have sent you to VietNam at any time, and you would have no say about it.

Very few National Guard units were called up to go to VietNam. Ironically, Bush's was one of those units. Howver, I remember reading about that in the papers. There was quite a furor over that, and people were preparing to take the government to the Supreme Court on the ground that the VietNam war was an undeclared war-therefore, they had no right to use Natoinal guard troops. Some months later, the government announced that they would not be using National Guard troops in VietNam.

I am not certain that once Bush completed his training, that anyone from that National Guard unit ever got sent to VietNam. At any rate, Bush was trained to fly a plane that was decommissioned from VietNam just days after ge hot out of flight school, as a double check.

Bush Sr, as a Congressman, was in position to know both what planes were going to be decommissioned and when, and also if the service had any plans to send any more National Guard units. All these moves require money from the Congress, and Bush Sr was a Congressman.

Was John Kerry A.W.O.L?
Written by Michael Ashbury
Tuesday, September 14, 2004




For the past year, and most recently by CBS News, we have been deluged with reports that George W. Bush did not complete his agreed duty in the Texas National Guard. He was AWOL!

But even the records show that George Bush exceeded his obligations from 1968-1973, and only came into question during the last 18 months of his agreed obligation when he requested and received official permission to transfer to an Alabama unit and then enroll in an MBA program at Harvard. His obligation was for six years from May, 1968, to May, 1974. He received an educational release from his obligation eight months early and received an Honorable Discharge in October, 1973.

While leftists question where George Bush was during the final year of his obligation, they and the press ignore completely the similar obligations of John Kerry. John Kerry enlisted in the Navy and signed an Officer Candidate Agreement on February 18, 1966. This agreement called for the candidate to

Par 3 - to serve a total period of 6 years in the Naval Reserve of the United States, including active and inactive duty.

Par 4 - agrees that on completion of active duty, he will remain for Service in the Ready Reserve for a period which when added to his active duty will total 5 years. Upon completion of 5 years of satisfactory service on active duty and in the Ready Reserve he will be eligible to transfer to the Standby Reserve for the remaining portion of his service obligation.

Par 5 - the candidate understands that the provisions of law require satisfactory participation in the Ready Reserve, unless relieved of such participation by competent authority or as provided by law. Such participation may be satisfied annually by not less 48 drills and not more than 17days active duty for training.

Lt. John Forbes Kerry was released from active duty and transferred to the Naval Reserve on January 3, 1970. He wasn't transferred to inactive standby status until July 1, 1972, then Honorably Discharged on February 16, 1978. Where was Lt Kerry during the18 months from 1970 to 1972? Did he attend the required drills and active duty that he agreed to? Was he AWOL or did he violate his agreed commitment on accepting a commission as an officer in the service of the United States.

We do know that he made an unauthorized trip to Paris in June, 1970, to meet with Madam Win Thi Binh, the foreign minister of the Provisional Revolutionary Government of Vietnam (PRG), which is the political wing of the Vietcong, and with representatives of Hanoi who were in Paris for the peace talks--in direct violation of the UCMJ's Article 104 part 904, and U.S. Code 18 U.S.C. 953.

That meeting, and Kerry's subsequent coddling of communists while leading mass protests against our military in the year that followed, also place him in direct violation of our Constitution's Article three, Section three, which defines treason as ''giving aid and comfort'' to the enemy in time of warfare. In April, 1971, he went before the Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs claiming all kinds of atrocities on the part of his fellow comrades in arms in further in violation of Article 3.

While John Kerry's hero status is in question in the United States he is still considered a hero in Vietnam where his picture is in a place of honor in the Vietnam War Museum in Ho Chi Minh City. He is honored for leading the Vietnam Veterans against the war and helping the communists bring the war to conclusion.

It is time we ask where was John Kerry during his reserve commitment. Was he AWOL as his supporters want to say is the case with George Bush? And did he violate the Code of Military Justice, the Geneva Conventions. and the United States Constitution in his actions as a naval officer?


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