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Giuliani compares Bush to Winston Churchill

 
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 07:47 am
Personally I can't wait for the convention to be over and I am avoiding the news entirely until then so I have no idea what any of these superficial guys have to say and the reactions from the superficial people who believe them.

nuff said

sorry in a bad mood
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 07:47 am
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
The War on Terror will be won shorly after The War on Drugs and The War on Poverty come to completion.


Hah, I second that. Sorry I hijacked your thread, gus.
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 07:50 am
I don't think it's possible to hijack a thread from gus.
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 07:50 am
Feel free to hijack my threads at any time, freeduck.

Why should I be the only one to hijack threads?
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 07:53 am
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
The War on Terror will be won shorly after The War on Drugs and The War on Poverty come to completion.


and don't forget the war on ideas......any idea good or bad that's independent of the current administrations ideas.....that's the real war....
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 07:57 am
new thread on Bush's no win war...

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32610
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 07:57 am
It's about time you got here, Bear. Now that the thread is in capable hands I can retire.
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Setanta
 
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Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 07:59 am
Winston Spencer Churchill, born in 1875, was the son of an American mother and an English Father, Randolph Churchill. Winston's illustrious ancestor, John Churchill, was the first Duke of Marlborough, and a hero to the English in the War of the Spanish Succession, 1701-1713. John Churchill's father was named Winston, and when both of his sons died, he designated the son of his daughter and his son-in-law, Lord Spencer, to be his heir and the second Duke of Marlborough. Hence--Winston Spencer Churchill, and the man with whom we are familiar was born at Blenheim Palace. The Duke of Marlborough won his first great victory in the War of the Spanish Succession by defeating the Franco-Bavarian army of Marshall Marsin and the Bavarian Prince-Elector, Max Emmanuel, on the Danube river near the village of Blindheim, which the English typically corrupted into Blenheim, pronouncing the word "Blennem." An allegedly grateful nation built the magnificent palace for John Churchill--although his widow was obliged to nag the government to pay for the completion of the edifice. Winston Churchill wrote a three volume biography of his illustrious ancestor, which remains a standard work to this day, because of the unique access to the Duke's personal papers which he had. His father, Randolph Churchill, was the second son of the eighth Duke of Marlborough (I believe it was the 8th, might have been the 7th), which accounts for Winston's birth at Blenheim Palace.

Comparing the Shrub to Winston Chruchill is rather like comparing John Kerry to Admiral David Farragut--they both have some things in common, much as an eagle and sparrow have something in common. Let's examine those things. Winston Churchill did very poorly in school, and therefore was sent to Sandhurst, the English military academy, in despair of his intellectual abilities--his subsequent career was to show that the mistrust was misplaced. George Bush got into university because his family had connection; his subsequent career has spared him all taint of having intellectual accomplishments, however.

Winston Churchill was descended from an illustrious and justifiably famous family which contributed to the Kingdom and the Empire for many generations. George Bush is descended from a family which made a killing in the steel industry during the first world war, and have set themselves up as old money ever since, and have contributed the dubious services of George Bush the Elder, and the governor of Florida, famous for his dedication to democratic electoral policies.

Winston Churchill was posted to the frontier of the Indian Empire after leaving Sandhurst, and participated in the Malakand campaign on the border of Afghanistan, and subsequently wrote The Malakand Field Force; Churchill used his political connection to get into a war, and participated in the last cavalry charge in English Imperial history outside Khartoum in the Sudan, and then wrote a book about, The River War; when the Boer War broke out, Winston offered his services as a war correspondent, and in an incident in which the Boers ambushed an armored train, he took command, got the wounded onto the cars, got the healthy soldiers to push damaged cars off the track, and got the engine steaming in reverse to evacuate the troops and the wounded, although he was himself captured. He then managed to escape from the Boers, and traveled over a thousand miles to the east coast of Africa, despite the hunt for him by the Boers and the wanted posters which were circulated. After that war, Winston eventually became First Lord of the Admiralty, and shepherded the Royal Navy into the modern age. His plan for taking Constantinople was sound--but the performance of the responsible commanders was less so, and the attempt degenerated into the disastrous Gallipoli campaign--Winston subsequently joined a regiment in the trenches in the Great War, where he at least served with competence, if not with distinction. George Bush used his family connections to get into the Air National Guard, at a time when those without connections faced the war in Vietnam, and has not seemed to tell the same story twice about his service.

In addition to the books named above, and many others, Churchill wrote The History of the English Speaking Peoples a multi-volume set, which remains in print to this day, as it is a modest but reliable seller. He also wrote World Crisis, a multi-volume history of the Great War, which is biased, but an invaluable insight into the National Government of Lloyd George, of which he was a member. He wrote The Second World War, a multi-volume history of that war, which, while once again obviously biased, remains an important source document, having been written by the Prime Minister of England's National government in that war. I don't know if George Bush has written anything coherent above the level of a grocery list, but I doubt it. If anything has been published in his name, you can bet that someone else actually wrote it.

Between the World Wars, Winston retained a seat in Parliament, although the period is know as "the Wilderness," because he was not a minister in any government. The Tories mistrusted him because he became a Liberal to get a place during the Khaki Election after the Boer War; the Liberals mistrusted him because the suspected (with justification) that he remained a Tory at heart. Labour held a grudge against him all of his life because, while he was Home Secretary, English soldiers were alleged to have fired upon Welsh Miners during a strike. Winston did not order any such action, and in fact, apart from arresting some looters who were breaking windows and grabbing merchandise, there is no evidence that the Army fired upon anyone--but none of that mattered, Labour hated him. George Bush is a darling of conservative Republicans, who seem willing to take anyone with a pulse who looks like getting elected.

While in Parliament, despite the early despair for his intellect, Winston was such an effective and brilliant public speaker, that people would rush from the dining room if told that Winston had risen to speak. George Bush has trouble placing a coherent order in a fast-food drive-through.

This is the most absurd bit of political horseshit which I've seen in many a day, in case you haven't gathered that already.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 08:01 am
Laughing

Go Setanta...
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gustavratzenhofer
 
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Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 08:05 am
Nice bit there, Setanta. Thanks.
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BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 09:14 am
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
Feel free to hijack my threads at any time, freeduck.

Why should I be the only one to hijack threads?


from the look of Gus' old overalls; they don't look worth highjacking!

[now that hat, maybe!!!]
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angie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 09:49 am
Guiliani and McCain both have aspirations for the White House, perhaps against Kerry in '08. So it makes perfect "political" sense for them to be supportive even when, in McCain's case, my guess is that he despises Bush.

I did not watch the coverage last night, but I heard Mario Cuomo later comment on Guiliani's reference to Kerry's prior comment that he would 'vote to support the war resolution again'. Cuomo explained, as many others have done, that Kerry's comment was, of course, truncated and taken out of context.

What Kerry said, if anyone is really interested, is that he would vote to give the president the authority to act in defense of the country (of COURSE) with the understanding that, barring the absence of an "imminent threat", that same president would exhaust all diplomatic alternatives before sending American troops into harms way. In this case, that understanding included going back to the UN and working (for I believe ONE MORE MONTH) with the weapons inspectors.

As it turns out, the whole WMD thing was irrelevant to Bush, and he never intended to adhere to any UN resolution unless it supported his real agenda: regime change/oil. He chose not to wait the month so as to make the "threat" appear imminent, and make the American people think pre-emption was justified.

Too bad he didn't heed his father's words:




- George Bush Sr, from his memoirs.
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Gala
 
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Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 06:30 pm
i think i know the similarities-- Churchill said something along the lines of "Some people are more equal than others", in which case Bush Jr. would identify himself as one the "more equals".
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Sofia
 
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Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 06:54 pm
Winston's grandson, a conservative, says that Bush is very similar to his grandfather.

They are both decisive and aren't afraid to stand by their principles--popular or not.
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Harper
 
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Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 07:25 pm
Bush decisive? Are you talking about George W. Bush? LOL
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 08:24 pm
Sofia wrote:
Winston's grandson, a conservative, says that Bush is very similar to his grandfather.
They are both decisive and aren't afraid to stand by their principles--popular or not.


http://www.ottawahospital.on.ca/hp/dept/nursing/img/patient-nurse-sm.jpg


"My grandfather was decisive and stood by his principles! Look out! A flying rat! Mr. Bush is like my grandfather. Batooooey! Batoooey! Bucccckkkkka bugga boo!"

"Now, now, Mr. Churchill, calm down. Breathe in....slowly. Let your medicine do its work"
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angie
 
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Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 09:55 pm
Didn't look very "decisive" in the seven minute stretch of Farenheit 911 when he sat there, with that unforgettable blank stare on his face, waiting for someone to tell him what to do .....
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 10:00 pm
He's like Churchill's rectal portions, perhaps.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 06:45 am
What is the good of being decisive when you are always wrong and too stupid to admit a mistake. If decisive as in Bush's case means bullheaded, rigid and unable to make changes when events show the need is called decisive. Please God protect the nation from Bush's decisiveness
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 11:15 am
That would be the only relevant criticism, Au. Can't say he's not decisive--but you can say you don't agree with at least some of his decisions.

Anyone who thinks Bush isn't decisive needs a dictionary.

angie--His instantaneous decision was not to run through the room like a schoolgirl--or stride out like MacArthur, muttering He-Man sound bites and scaring teachers and little children. Seven minutes didn't make a difference--and he knew that. People had jobs. His was to stay alive.
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