2
   

Dole asking Kerry about Nam.

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 12:53 pm
revel wrote:
[Those are not undisputed facts.



None of your links provided any information that contradicted the facts as I described them. Perhaps you should reread both.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 12:53 pm
McGentrix wrote:
I suppose those that avoided the draft entirely by escaping to England would be just south of that pimples location, right?


Again with the clinton infatuation. If ever he starts to feel neglected, he need only come here.

Clinton freely admited that he avoided nam.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 12:54 pm
PDiddie wrote:

Yes, I believe that you must be (taking the same class, in the Advanced Conservative Studies building, the one taught by the man who avoided Viet Nam because he had a nasty pimple at the very lowest tip of his spine).


At its very best, this was a very cheap shot. It discredits both you and the argument you appear to be making.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 12:57 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
revel wrote:
[Those are not undisputed facts.



None of your links provided any information that contradicted the facts as I described them. Perhaps you should reread both.


Those links I provided were what I said they were, merely some places on the net that show support for kerry and some of them did dispute some of your statements that you claim as facts. Such as Kerry not being wounded and his medals being up for questioning.

See the following: http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/nation/9462893.htm?1c

On the core issue of whether Kerry was wounded under enemy fire that day, qualifying for a third Purple Heart, Navy records favor Kerry. Several documents, including the after-action report and the Bronze Star citation for a Swift boat skipper who has accused Kerry of lying, refer to "all units" coming under "automatic and small-weapons fire."


should have added that the first time.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 01:00 pm
Quote:
John Kerry was awarded the Silver Star for his Vietnam service in the early '80s after he, a prominent Senator, directly interceded with the Secretary of the Navy on his own behalf.


So are you saying that anyone that is a senator can just go and get a silver star? Do you not see how "your facts" are shaded to come out like they are and why they are not undisputed facts at all?
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 01:11 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
At its very best, this was a very cheap shot. It discredits both you and the argument you appear to be making.


Hey, he asked for it.

Take your own advice; go back and read.

WhatsamattaU?

And before you leave to go back, answer me another question:

Why is it that they can find 250 veterans to swear that Kerry was a showboat, a coward and a con man in Vietnam, but they can't find one guy who will swear that he knew GW Bush in the Air National Guard?

It couldn't be a shortage of funds, could it?
0 Replies
 
Karzak
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 01:16 pm
PDiddie wrote:


Why is it that they can find 250 veterans to swear that Kerry was a showboat, a coward and a con man in Vietnam, but they can't find one guy who will swear that he knew GW Bush in the Air National Guard?



My guess is that showboats, cowards and con men are more memorable than weekend warrior pilots.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 01:17 pm
Karzak wrote:
My guess is that showboats, cowards and con men are more memorable than weekend warrior pilots.


*BUZZZZ* Guess again, clown.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 01:17 pm
Did they really call him a showboat, a coward and a con man? I thought they were just sticking to calling him a liar. Dang, I must be behind on my reading again.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 01:18 pm
Revel,

Perhaps you should reread my post. I didn't say Kerry wasn't wounded. I said there is no record of medical treatment beyond a little first aid for any of them.

There are many issues in contention - as you say. However I believe there is no dispute over the observations I wrote.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 01:18 pm
CoastalRat wrote:
Did they really call him a showboat, a coward and a con man? I thought they were just sticking to calling him a liar. Dang, I must be behind on my reading again.


I think it's your reading comprehension skills, actually. :wink:
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 01:23 pm
PDiddie wrote:
:

Why is it that they can find 250 veterans to swear that Kerry was a showboat, a coward and a con man in Vietnam, but they can't find one guy who will swear that he knew GW Bush in the Air National Guard?

It couldn't be a shortage of funds, could it?


I don't think this statement is true. I believe you are referring to a several week period in which Bush served in the Alabama Guard, a period for which - for a while - no one was able to document in his service. The Kerry folks were implying that he was AWOL, etc. The records have subsequently been found and they confirm he was there. There is no shortage of folks who recall serving with Bush in the Air Guard. Flight training and qualifying in F-102s requires a good deal of time and contact with people.

Bush, unlike Kerry, has authorized the complete release of his service records by the Defense Department.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 01:43 pm
PDiddie wrote:
CoastalRat wrote:
Did they really call him a showboat, a coward and a con man? I thought they were just sticking to calling him a liar. Dang, I must be behind on my reading again.


I think it's your reading comprehension skills, actually. :wink:


Naw, I doubt that. I've actually won numerous awards for my reading comprehension skills. In fact, I can remember back in '68, I had drifted into hostile liberal college territory where my ideas were attacked by textbook armed professors, all the while having to listen to my parents denying I was even there. After several desperate engagements, which are all seared, seared I tell you into my mind, I escaped. I pretended to throw my awards away, but some sneaky person retrieved them, and thus I can still point proudly to them as evidence of my intellectual abilities.

NOTE TO ALL: This is written with tongue firmly in cheek.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 01:49 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
PDiddie wrote:
:

Why is it that they can find 250 veterans to swear that Kerry was a showboat, a coward and a con man in Vietnam, but they can't find one guy who will swear that he knew GW Bush in the Air National Guard?

It couldn't be a shortage of funds, could it?


I don't think this statement is true. I believe you are referring to a several week period in which Bush served in the Alabama Guard, a period for which - for a while - no one was able to document in his service. The Kerry folks were implying that he was AWOL, etc. The records have subsequently been found and they confirm he was there. There is no shortage of folks who recall serving with Bush in the Air Guard. Flight training and qualifying in F-102s requires a good deal of time and contact with people.

Bush, unlike Kerry, has authorized the complete release of his service records by the Defense Department.


You have all manner of inaccuracies in that post, bub.

It was more than several weeks; it was May to September of 1972. That's several months.

It wasn't Kerry's "folks"; it was that damned liberal media, and Bush's records (which are NOT complete) don't clear up the missing time.

But the damned liberal media has decided this doesn't really matter.

And listen, this contention of what a great pilot Bush was is simply tired. There's lots of evidence Bush nearly killed himself and others when he flew civilian planes later. Ask Don Evans.

One last point.

Here's a picture of Kerry's fruit salad:

http://kepler.egr.duke.edu/Ribbons/Images/dod_ssm.gifhttp://kepler.egr.duke.edu/Ribbons/Images/dod_bsm.gif
http://kepler.egr.duke.edu/Ribbons/Images/dod_ph.gifhttp://kepler.egr.duke.edu/Ribbons/Fleet/cact.gifhttp://kepler.egr.duke.edu/Ribbons/Fleet/puc.gif
http://kepler.egr.duke.edu/Ribbons/Fleet/gcuc-v.gifhttp://kepler.egr.duke.edu/Ribbons/Fleet/cauc-v.gifhttp://kepler.egr.duke.edu/Ribbons/Fleet/vcm.gif

Top to bottom, left to right

Silver Star (Verified via DD214)
Bronze Star (Should have Bronze Combat "V" Device, Verified via DD214)
Purple Heart (Should have two Gold Star devices for subsequent awards, Verified via DD214)
Combat Action Ribbon (Verified via DD214)
Presidential Unit Citation (Verified via DD215, worn above left pocket per Navy regs)
Navy Unit Commendation (Verified via DD215)
National Defense Service Medal (Verified via DD214)
Vietnam Service Medal (Verified via DD214, w/four bronze star devices verified via DD215)
Republic of Vietnam Gallantry Cross Unit Citation (Verified via DD215)
Republic of Vietnam Civil Actions Unit Citation (Verified via DD215)
Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal (Verified via DD215)

And this is Dubya's:

http://www.homeofheroes.com/medals/ribbons/ribbon_18xaf3.jpghttp://www.homeofheroes.com/medals/ribbons/ribbon_31af3.jpg

Air Force Outstanding Unit Award (verified via photograph only; no DD214 issued by ANG)
Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon (verified via photograph only)
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 01:54 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
PDiddie wrote:
:

Why is it that they can find 250 veterans to swear that Kerry was a showboat, a coward and a con man in Vietnam, but they can't find one guy who will swear that he knew GW Bush in the Air National Guard?

It couldn't be a shortage of funds, could it?


I don't think this statement is true. I believe you are referring to a several week period in which Bush served in the Alabama Guard, a period for which - for a while - no one was able to document in his service. The Kerry folks were implying that he was AWOL, etc. The records have subsequently been found and they confirm he was there. There is no shortage of folks who recall serving with Bush in the Air Guard. Flight training and qualifying in F-102s requires a good deal of time and contact with people.

Bush, unlike Kerry, has authorized the complete release of his service records by the Defense Department.


i thought they had found ONE guy that remembers SEEING bush. btw, is that the same as "served with"?
as you say, training and qualifying on an f-102 ( a plane not in use in vietnam, i've heard) requires a good deal of time and contact with people. yet there just doesn't seem to be more than one / anyone who remembers being in contact with him during that good deal of time.

didn't he get grounded for not appearing for his yearly flight physical??

hey pd, i'm not sure it's a lack of funds, so much as a lack of friends. even a hoe has limits.
his daddy and cheney seem to own quite a few though...



Laughing
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 01:57 pm
nice job on the ribbons.

hey do you know a way to get jpegs from the box to the post reply page? got a few goodies for ya'll
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 02:00 pm
Quote:
Having said that, as a matter of curiosity; what is your opinion based on facts that you have found thus far concerning the allegations from certain folks from the swift boat outfit?


revel- Damned if I could even venture a guess. I figure that it is kinda like this: One group says something..................the opposing group says something else. And somewhere in there lies the truth, which we may never know.
0 Replies
 
Karzak
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 02:14 pm
You left some Bush ribbons off
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 02:18 pm
McGentrix wrote:
I suppose those that avoided the draft entirely by escaping to England would be just south of that pimples location, right?



escaped to england? i thought clinton had the same deferment as cheney? and delay. and ashcroft. and um, bush

at least clinton was honest about what he thought. as opposed to;

The Washington Post
Wednesday, July 28, 1999; Page A11

The following are excerpts of interviews with George W. Bush conducted by Washington Post reporters. The interviews took place May 11 and June 7, 1999, in Austin.

What'd you think about the war?

Well initially I supported the government. My first reaction was ... I'll support my government.

Did you differentiate between supporting the government and supporting the war?

I didn't differentiate at first. I then, as you know, went in the service and over time, though, I, like many others, became disillusioned. I must confess I was not disillusioned right off the bat.

Did you defend the war? People recall that you argued both sides.

I don't remember debates. I don't think we spent a lot of time debating it. Maybe we did, but I don't remember.

We understand your father felt the war should be supported, and that he was put off by the tactics of the anti-war protesters.

I probably felt the same way at the time ... I do remember I think it was the Cambodian bombing, where I began to become, it became apparent over time that decisions were made not in the best interest of our military. It became evident that this was a political war, not a military war. There was a certain predictability and so the military mission was not paramount. It was a political mission. And there was no clarity of purpose ... and it took awhile for that to sink in my way of thinking.

Did you ever consider enlisting in active duty?

Yeah, I did but I got into Guard as a pilot. I got a pilot slot.

Why did you do the Guard instead of active duty?

I was guaranteed a pilot slot. I found out - as I'm sure you've researched all this out - they were looking for pilots. I think there were five or six pilot slots available. I was the third slot in the Texas Guard. Had that not worked out no telling where I would have been. I would have ended up in the military somewhere.

You meant to join the Guard when you took the pilot's qualifying test?

Or the regular Air Force. I was just looking for options. I didn't have a strategy. I knew I was going in the military. I wasn't sure what branch I was going into. I took the test with an eye obviously on the Guard slot, but had that not worked out I wouldn't have gotten into pilot training. I remember going to Air Force recruiting station and getting the Air Force recruiting material to be a pilot. Then I went home and I learned there was a pilot slot available.

Were you avoiding the draft?

No, I was becoming a pilot.

You wanted to serve?

Yes I did.

But when you were asked do you want to go overseas, you said no.

I didn't know that. But I actually tried to go on a Palace Alert program.

That was later.

It was. After I became a pilot.

Palace Alert program was being phased out.

Not really, a couple of my buddies got to go. ...

... But they'd already graduated.

That's true. I couldn't go until actually I'd gotten my -

I was curious about the sequence. You got out of combat school on June 23, 1970. Palace Alert programs were all closed down overseas as of June 30. So could you have gone even if you signed up for it?

I guess not if that's the case, but I remember going to see [the supervisor] to try to get signed up for it. You just ask the commander to put you in. He said you can't go because you're too low on the totem pole. I'm not trying to make this thing any grander than it is. ...


© 1999 The Washington Post Company
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2004 02:49 pm
Karzak wrote:
You left some Bush ribbons off


Why don't you add them then, along with the verification?

We'll wait.
0 Replies
 
 

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