Kerry can't resist inserting a Nam story.

"... they now have decided to attack my little dog Fala." FDR

So how is the economy doing?
Where was John on Christmas Eve?

Did the middle really get a tax cut or are they being squeezed?
Was the guy wearing a loin cloth or not? !!

Can we find better ways of implementing the peace in Iraq?

Did you know his haircuts cost like ten thousand dollars?

ad nauseam

Joe

0 Replies

Joe Nation wrote:

Quote:
The measure of the value of our lives is not determined by the number of people who read our poems or hear our songs.

Unless you are a writer, then it matters just a hair or two.
Joe

So there is no value in writing a masterpiece unless it is read by others?

0 Replies

smog wrote:

Joe Nation wrote:
Quote:
The measure of the value of our lives is not determined by the number of people who read our poems or hear our songs.

Unless you are a writer, then it matters just a hair or two.

I like you, Joe.

Anyway, Finn, people don't need to be "moved by [my] words;" I just hope that, every now and then, they will read them. Although, while I'm on the topic, it isn't conceited to hope that someday people will be moved by something you write--it's wishful thinking.

Sadly, though, I don't think much else is going to come from our little part of this discussion.

Well, if you have been assuming that with one or two postings you would convince me to your way of thinking, then you are most certainly correct (sadly or otherwise) that nothing will come of "our little part of this discussion."

There are any number of artists whose art was appreciated only after their deaths. Would they be have been correct if they believed, while they were alive, that their lives had no value? If no one had ever found Van Gogh's paintings, would his life have been without value?

0 Replies

Joe Nation wrote:

So how is the economy doing?
Where was George in Alabama?

Did the middle really get a tax cut or are they being squeezed?
Can't the guy pronounce "nuclear?"

Can we find better ways of implementing the peace in Iraq?
Did you know the guy was a dry drunk?

ad nauseam

Joe

0 Replies

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

Well, if you have been assuming that with one or two postings you would convince me to your way of thinking, then you are most certainly correct (sadly or otherwise) that nothing will come of "our little part of this discussion."

There are any number of artists whose art was appreciated only after their deaths. Would they be have been correct if they believed, while they were alive, that their lives had no value? If no one had ever found Van Gogh's paintings, would his life have been without value?

I wasn't assuming that, and I ignored my usual practice of avoiding pointless arguments.

An artist who is not appreciated in his own time might still enrich the world after his death, but his life will be much worse without receiving recognition and validation of purpose. Yes, later generations discovered his purpose, but he easily could have felt miserable for decades, and his own life, in his mind, would have been terrible. While leaving a legacy is important to the world, so is happiness during your own lifetime.

You may, by all means, respond to this, but keep in mind that there is a decent chance that I will not be continuing.

0 Replies

Finn writes:

Quote:

There are any number of artists whose art was appreciated only after their deaths. Would they be have been correct if they believed, while they were alive, that their lives had no value? If no one had ever found Van Gogh's paintings, would his life have been without value?

That's pretty funny or were you trying to be ironic? I'm sure I don't have to remind you of how, after a spiral of mental illness and despair, van Gogh ended his own life. Our lives certainly have been made better by the lucky accident of his paintings discovery, but his life was a tortured affair, full of frustrations, poverty and pain and, to Vincent at the end, worth not much more than a bullet.

Joe

0 Replies

Joe Nation wrote:

Finn writes:

Quote:
There are any number of artists whose art was appreciated only after their deaths. Would they be have been correct if they believed, while they were alive, that their lives had no value? If no one had ever found Van Gogh's paintings, would his life have been without value?

That's pretty funny or were you trying to be ironic? I'm sure I don't have to remind you of how, after a spiral of mental illness and despair, van Gogh ended his own life. Our lives certainly have been made better by the lucky accident of his paintings discovery, but his life was a tortured affair, full of frustrations, poverty and pain and, to Vincent at the end, worth not much more than a bullet.

Joe

Was Van Gogh's life worthless because he thought it was?

If we never found his wonderful paintings would he have been proven correct?

Did his life obtain value only because we found his paintings?

If his paintings had achieved critical regard during his life do you believe that he would have led a far less tortured existence?

Are you really trying to argue that critical acclaim defines art?

0 Replies

What was the value of van Gogh's life to him when he pulled the trigger?
We can subscribe anything we want to a life, but we cannot increase or decrease one mote the value it's possessor holds to it.

You like his art? You think his life had value? Good, I'll tell him when I see him.

Joe

0 Replies

smog wrote:

I like you, Joe.

0 Replies

Say is isn't true Georgie boy! If you can?

Aug 28, 3:24 PM EDT
Ex-Lawmaker Says He Helped Bush With Guard

By BOBBY ROSS JR.
Associated Press Writer

DALLAS (AP) -- Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is "more ashamed at myself than I've ever been" because he helped President Bush and the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they could avoid serving in Vietnam.

"I got a young man named George W. Bush into the National Guard ... and I'm not necessarily proud of that, but I did it," Barnes, a Democrat, said in a video clip recorded May 27 before a group of John Kerry supporters in Austin.

Barnes, who was House speaker when Bush entered the Guard, later became lieutenant governor.

The video was posted June 25 on the Web site www.austin4kerry.org, but didn't get much attention until Friday, when Jim Moore, an Austin-based author of books critical of Bush, sent out e-mails calling attention to it just days before the GOP National Convention starts in New York.

Bush joined the National Guard in 1968, at the height of the Vietnam War, and served until 1973. He has said he received no special treatment.

Barnes said he became ashamed after walking through the Vietnam Memorial and looking at the names of the dead.

"I became more ashamed of myself than I've ever been because it was the worst thing I did - help a lot of wealthy supporters and a lot of people who had family names of importance get in the National Guard," he said. "I'm very sorry of that and I'm very ashamed of it and I apologize to the voters of Texas for that."

Barnes told The Associated Press in a brief telephone interview Saturday that the video "just speaks for itself." He declined to answer specific questions about what role he had in helping Bush, but he said he may have more to say next week.
Both Bush and his father, the former president, have said they did not ask for help in finding the Guard opening.

Bush said Saturday in Lima, Ohio, that he is "proud of my service" in the National Guard.

He made the comment after a questioner in a friendly audience at a high school commented, "I'm feeling sorry on your behalf the fact that they are trying to bring this issue up about the National Guard. I have many many good friends that served in the Guard during the ... Vietnam War."

"There's eight of them that are changing parties because they've had it with the Democrats," said the man in the audience.

"The question is who's best to be the commander in chief to lead us in peace. That's the question," Bush responded to applause.

Earlier Saturday, White House spokesman Scott McLellan said of Barnes' comments: "It is not surprising coming from a longtime partisan Democrat. The allegation was discredited by the commanding officer. This was fully covered and addressed five years ago. It is nothing new."

Five years ago, Barnes found himself at the center of questions about Bush's Vietnam-era service when the then-Texas governor emerged as the Republican presidential front-runner.

At that time, Barnes' lawyer issued a statement saying Barnes had been contacted by the now-deceased Sidney Adger, a Houston oilman and friend of Bush's father, who was then a congressman. Adger asked Barnes to recommend Bush for a pilot position with the Air National Guard and he did, that statement said.

"Neither Congressman Bush nor any other member of the Bush family asked Barnes' help," according to the 1999 statement.

0 Replies

Joe Nation wrote:

What was the value of van Gogh's life to him when he pulled the trigger?
We can subscribe anything we want to a life, but we cannot increase or decrease one mote the value it's possessor holds to it.

You like his art? You think his life had value? Good, I'll tell him when I see him.

Joe

So by your rationale, each person defines the value of his or her own life, irrespective of its influence on the rest of humanity.

This opens the door for all sorts of monsters to live lives of great value.

0 Replies

Quote:

So by your rationale, each person defines the value of his or her own life, irrespective of its influence on the rest of humanity.

yes.

Quote:

This opens the door for all sorts of monsters to live lives of great value.

Oh, I didn't say that they would be right or rational about it.

Now where were we? Oh, yes... building up and tearing down the lives of our leaders..... Cool

0 Replies

Quote:

At that time, Barnes' lawyer issued a statement saying Barnes had been contacted by the now-deceased Sidney Adger, a Houston oilman and friend of Bush's father, who was then a congressman. Adger asked Barnes to recommend Bush for a pilot position with the Air National Guard and he did, that statement said.

"Neither Congressman Bush nor any other member of the Bush family asked Barnes' help," according to the 1999 statement.

See? That's the way it's done. The family didn't ask, heaven forfend, a friend of the family did. Much nicer, much more within the realm of decency. And the lad did alright for himself, didn't he? Flew some kind of fighter jet like his old man, only not in real combat, had a chance to volunteer for combat though, heh, heh, like he was going to take that, hehe.
Anyway, except for the part where he kind of lost interest in things like showing up for duty or keeping his flying status active by taking a physical exam, he muddled through. The family was worried about him then, he seemed lost, but it was probably just the generation gap of the time. He went to school back east, muddled through that too, and some other family friends got him an oil company for graduation.

This is how the other half lives.

Joe

0 Replies

Joe Nation wrote:

Quote:
At that time,........muddled through that too, and some other family friends got him an oil company for graduation.

This is how the other half lives.Joe

by jove, i think he's got it!

very good take. be prepared though for those who will say that kerry got the same "help". and maybe he did benefit from some kind of nepotism. i haven't read that he did. but, either way, he certainly did something very much different than bush with it.

0 Replies

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Joe Nation wrote:
Quote:
At that time,........muddled through that too, and some other family friends got him an oil company for graduation.

This is how the other half lives.Joe

by jove, i think he's got it!

very good take. be prepared though for those who will say that kerry got the same "help". and maybe he did benefit from some kind of nepotism. i haven't read that he did. but, either way, he certainly did something very much different than bush with it.

KERRY'S LINEAGE

So what?

0 Replies

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:
be prepared though for those who will say that kerry got the same "help". and maybe he did benefit from some kind of nepotism. i haven't read that he did. but, either way, he certainly did something very much different than bush with it.

KERRY'S LINEAGE

So what?

NEPOTISM;
Definition:

[n] favoritism shown to relatives or close friends by those in power (as by giving them jobs)

generally speaking, wouldn't it be necessary that a person in the position to offer said nepotism be among the living at the time of the shown favoritism?

as i said, he certainly did something very much different with it.

but thank you for the info. it's wonderful to know that he's a nice boy from a good family.
Very Happy

0 Replies

Kerry can't resist inserting a Nam story.

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know