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Women US Soccer Players Sue for Equal Wages

 
 
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2016 12:55 pm
Interesting that these women, four of which are household names, make a quarter of what the US men make when I couldn't name a single one of them and have never seen them play. I can't believe the US Men make the US Soccer Federation more than the women since the women are their premium product and fill stadiums around the country.

Quote:
Five of the biggest names on the U.S. women’s national soccer team roster filed a complaint against the U.S. Soccer Federation on Wednesday, demanding equal pay for equal work and calling for an investigation of what they believe to be U.S. Soccer’s discriminatory wage practices.

The complaint comes less than nine months after the women’s team hoisted up the gold trophy at the 2015 World Cup, a feat the men’s team has never accomplished.

While Carli Lloyd, Alex Morgan, Megan Rapinoe, Becky Sauerbrunn and Hope Solo were the players who actually inked their names onto the filing, they emphasized they were taking action on behalf of the entire national team.

“Every single day we sacrifice just as much as the men. We work just as much,” standout forward Morgan explained on NBC’s “Today” Thursday morning. “We endure just as much physically and emotionally. Our fans really do appreciate us every day for that. We saw that with the high of last summer. We’re really asking, and demanding now, that our federation, and our employer really, step up and appreciate us as well.”


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/uswnt-wage-discriminatory-suit-us-soccer_us_56fd33c3e4b0a06d5804ecac
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Type: Discussion • Score: 11 • Views: 3,629 • Replies: 121
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maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2016 01:08 pm
@engineer,
Do you have non-biased revenue number for each team, Engineer? How does the revenue generated by the women in 2015 compare to to the revenue generated by the men in 2014 (both world cup years)?

I am having trouble finding the raw data for these numbers.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2016 01:17 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Among the numbers cited in the EEOC filing are that the women would earn $99,000 each if they won 20 friendlies, the minimum number they are required to play in a year. But the men would likely earn $263,320 each for the same feat, and would get $100,000 even if they lost all 20 games. Additionally, the women get paid nothing for playing more than 20 games, while the men get between $5,000 and $17,625 for each game played beyond 20.
Source: German media quoting the report
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2016 01:20 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I agree with that Walter, but it doesn't answer the question. For the record, I think the these soccer players have a very good case. I am simply trying to understand the facts on both sides.

The question I am asking is revenue. How much revenue did the women generate in 2015 vs. the men in 2014 (both world cup years)? The raw, unspun, numbers for this question don't seem to be available.

0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2016 01:21 pm
@engineer,
Weird, if they are the bigger draw they should be making more, IMO.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2016 01:28 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Were the women in 2015 a bigger draw then the men in 2014 (both world cup years)? Do you have numbers on this?
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2016 01:32 pm
@maxdancona,
I don't have it. The article I read was talking about 2015 which would have been biased by the WC differences. Additionally, some of the difference comes from the International organization which pays men far more than women.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2016 01:39 pm
@engineer,
In professional basketball, the men's and women's leagues are independent. Each league has its own budget, the revenue and expenses are completely separate. Each league gathers ticket prices, makes contracts with TV networks and negotiates with players and unions on its own.

In this case, the women earn a lot less then the men because the NBA pulls in a lot more revenue. This is a pay disparity, but there is really no one to sue.

If men's and women's soccer were separated so that each operated independently with no financial ties, do you think that there would be pay equity?

0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2016 01:41 pm
@engineer,
From the NYTl
Quote:
The women’s players are salaried employees — the top players are paid about $72,000 a year by the federation — but they contend that even with that extra income, their bonus structure means they earn far less than their male counterparts, who receive money from U.S. Soccer only if they are called to the national team.

A men’s player, for example, receives $5,000 for a loss in a friendly match but as much as $17,625 for a win against a top opponent. A women’s player receives $1,350 for a similar match, but only if the United States wins; women’s players receive no bonuses for losses or ties.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2016 01:42 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
Additionally, some of the difference comes from the International organization which pays men far more than women.
Do US football players really get money from "international organisations"?
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2016 01:45 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I believe they split pots from the World Cup playoffs. For those looking for money numbers, here's the link to US Soccer's financial statements.

http://www.ussoccer.com/about/federation-services/resource-center/financial-information
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2016 01:54 pm
@maxdancona,
I don't, and was expressing surprise that they would be. But if they are they deserve better pay. I just expect that the US mens team, though being much less formidable comparatively on the field, get to bask in the general halo effect from the biggest sporting event on earth and are probably getting more viewers at least in the respective cups. I have no idea who is the main draw in the US in general for the national teams, and am curious. The women's team is a historically great team and them men, well they always have spirited defense, and have got that going for them at least. It would not surprise me if outside of the World Cups the women outdraw the men but I have no data to offer here.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2016 01:58 pm
@engineer,
That would be totally different to the situation in Europe: here, the national football associazions get the money. And the latter decide with the team's spokespersons, how much goes the individual players.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2016 02:00 pm
@engineer,
I looked at the financial statements and the two national teams are not broken out (that I saw). The total revenue in 2015 was 101.7 million compared to 74.3 million in 2014. The big three categories that are likely important are:

Sponsorship, TV, licensing and royalties
National Teams' game revenues
International game revenues

2014 2015
S,TV,L,R $28.7M $37.1M
NTGR $22.6M $34.0M
IGR $5.2M $8.0M

If you say that 2014 was driven by the men and 2015 was driven by the women, this looks like a slam dunk. Of course that might not be true and expenses were higher in 2015 as well ($69.7M vs $50.8M). Without a lot of detail, you can't say more, but it certainly doesn't look like the women are worth 25% of the men, more likely that they are more valuable.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2016 02:06 pm
@engineer,
It is difficult to compare apples with oranges. 2015 was a banner year for US woman's soccer. I would like to see the raw data. I know that the final last year with the US woman's team winning the world cup had a very high viewership. But was the total viewership for the tournament (if you add the viewers of each game) comparable?

The relevant question is that if we split US soccer into two completely independent organizations, how would the woman's revenue compare to the men's revenue over the long term.

0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2016 02:07 pm
@engineer,
The attendance figures are on the US Soccer web site. The men pull in around 32K attendees per game vs 10.6K for the women in 2014 and 27.8K in 2015 (home game attendance).

http://www.ussoccer.com/womens-national-team/records/attendance
http://www.ussoccer.com/mens-national-team/records/mnt-attendance-by-year
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2016 05:58 pm
@engineer,
Yeah, I can't even play devil's advocate on this one. The more I look into it the more ridiculously unfair it is.

US soccer won't release the itemized revenue numbers... and clearly the US WNT is making some serious revenue. The fact that women's soccer is only getting about 13% of the development money doesn't even make economic sense.

I hope that they are forced to publicize their revenue numbers.

Maybe someone else can try to take the other side on this one...

engineer
 
  2  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2016 06:52 am
@maxdancona,
What was more amazing to me was that the teams get different per diem payments when they travel. You would figure that hotels and food cost the same regardless of what gender you are but the men get $62.50 per day vs $50 for the women at domestic games.

Here is a breakdown from the NY Times.

So the question is whether US Soccer is going to try to fight this or quickly settle it. It sounds like they want to fight which will be an own goal in public opinion.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2016 07:23 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Yeah, I can't even play devil's advocate on this one. The more I look into it the more ridiculously unfair it is.

If you want to take the devil's advocate position, you could say that this is the salary the marketplace supports. The top quintile of men in the MLS make more than a quarter of a million a year with some million dollar contracts in there and one contract at $7.1 million per year. (The bottom make $50-60K). By comparison, the minimum salary for a woman pro US Soccer player is just shy of $7k/year with the very top player in the world (not the US) earning $400k/yr. The max US soccer salary is $37,800. Some (not me) would argue that the women should be happy to get such a good salary from US Soccer when they have few options elsewhere. It's similar to the minimum wage debate. Why should employers have to pay a living wage when they can find desperate workers for less?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2016 08:36 am
@engineer,
I'd looked up the salary for female football players here in Germany.
In 2011 (couldn't find later figures), Fatmire Alushi was the top-earner with about 130,000€ per year. (She's now playing for Paris Saint-Germain.)
The average for players in the first Bundeslaiga was about 1,000 € per month. (Second Bundesliga less [a few teams pay the same as in the 1rst], lower classes are nearly all real amateurs.)
0 Replies
 
 

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