Which Religion is the One True Religion?

"And the kinds of insults to our personal freedom currently being peddled by large segments of the Christian community....a segment not being tempered by the remainder of the community...."

What is so mind-boggling is the fact that these christians would limit equality for gays, then turn around and claim "they love all sinners." If that's how they show their "love," they have their logic all screwed up. They also want to impose their religius beliefs against abortion, and also impede our research into embryonic stem cell research even though we do not believe in their religious beliefs. They know nothing about equality or discrimination even though they think they do.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

And the kinds of insults to our personal freedom currently being peddled by large segments of the Christian community....a segment not being tempered by the remainder of the community....

...are a greater danger to our personal freedom than Islam or facism or communism ever were or will be.

Frank considering you are in denial of what Christianity is. You cannot see anyway God can be vindicated in the Bible so what makes you think your opinion is not biased and untrustworthy?

You take extremely clear scriptures and try to counter them with cultural vacuums and human shortfalls in the text.

Rather than vindicate a foundational God based on truth you would rather the God of the Bible be a mirror of an ailing human condition...

You cannot read the word of God "spiritually" but you read it in a linear literal fashion. You devalue the truth that dispels the darkness. It is up to you to see God from the right perspective.

You cannot perceive the certain emphasis of various figures of speech in the scriptures. Figures of speech tell a believer what is to be "emphasized" and what is to be used only for consideration... Just because we consider something does not mean it should be law. There is the value of deterrence when spiritual commodities are limited and juvenile.

You magnify the harsh realities of the old testament above the comforting spiritual scriptural reality and liberation of the church epistles...

Ephesians 4:
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the [same]measure of the gift of Christ.

Comment:
ONE MIND

Leviticus 25:10
And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.

Isaiah 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Jeremiah 34:8
This is the word that came unto Jeremiah from the LORD, after that the king Zedekiah had made a covenant with all the people which were at Jerusalem, to proclaim liberty unto them;

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

1Corinthians 8:9
But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to them that are weak.

2Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Comment:
These scriptures are very clear yet you choose to magnify the more subjective vague scriptures of the OT, prophesied by prophets that were only partially able to perceive the spirit realm...

This either shows a narrow vision as a whole or a motive to actually diminish the importance of the biblical God through rhetoric and error.

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Galatians 5:13
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Comment:
Frank what do you consider the "perfect law of liberty" is?
How will you ever figure out the law of liberty when you are too busy magnifying the law of sin and death?

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Comment: Does this sound like equality Frank? "all one in Christ"?

Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Romans 2:11 - Show Context
For there is no respect of persons with God.

Comment:
No respect of persons means that God does not favor one person over another... isn't that equality? Again Frank you are making things up... Is it possibly you that has no respect for God in return?

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond[slaves] nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Romans 8:
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption [sonship], whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Comment:
God was made subject to vanity so we could know liberty...

Peace with God...

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cicerone imposter wrote:

"And the kinds of insults to our personal freedom currently being peddled by large segments of the Christian community....a segment not being tempered by the remainder of the community...."

What is so mind-boggling is the fact that these christians would limit equality for gays, then turn around and claim "they love all sinners." If that's how they show their "love," they have their logic all screwed up. They also want to impose their religius beliefs against abortion, and also impede our research into embryonic stem cell research even though we do not believe in their religious beliefs. They know nothing about equality or discrimination even though they think they do.

Just because someone presents themselves under the guise of Christianity and the "the Bible" does not mean they have found the truth within the Bible. Even moreso, have they put the truth on in their minds?

Why is the Bible the most attacked book in history? Because it has a pure and inerrant truth "within"...

People would not read it if it did not contain light...

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Rex, whatchya got going on in your most recent replies to Frank and c.i. remains true to the typical form of religionist apologetics; it begins with a straw man objection, proceeds through an appeal to emotion founded in an illicit major premise, and devolves into mere circular logic, relying entirely on subjective interpretation of wholly internal reference. It is sophistry, not argument.

"In order to understand, you have to believe, in order to believe, you must understand" - can't you see how silly, how oxymoronic, how indefensibly circular that proposition is?

No, of course you can't - or won't, which amounts to the same thing. Far from "Seeking Truth", you present the position of one who is uninterested in seeking answers, unable to respond effectively to challenge, unwilling to come to grips with the fact that some things are, and may remain, unknown. You guess, and you dismiss out of hand any guess not congruent with your own. Thats arrogance, founded in superstition and ignorance, plain and simple.

Again, much better arguments for your proposition exist than any so far set forth in this discussion. It is the religionist, or, conversely, the atheist, who makes the claim, it is incumbent upon the claimant to present the case for that claim. That has not been done; not only has it not been established that any one religion is the "One True Religion", as presented in the topic question for this discussion, but it has not been established that religion itself is anything other than a particular manifestation of humankind's emotional makeup. Religion is every bit as much a human invention as is the post-it note.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

They also want to impose their religius beliefs against abortion

You want to defend abortion? Bring it on.

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Perhaps the solution will be provided by the United Nations to ban religion after all.

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neologist wrote:

Perhaps the solution will be provided by the United Nations to ban religion after all.

Christianity defeated Rome... 666 Smile

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http://www.michaelduff.net/blog/2005/02/daniel-tammet-autistic-savant.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Tammet

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Daniel Tammet (born 1979) is a British autistic savant gifted with a facility for mathematics problems, sequence memory, and natural language learning.

Unlike many savants, Tammet is not severely developmentally disabled. He is independent and, although reportedly nervous around large groups of people, does not have the severe lack of social skills that many autistic savants have. Significantly, he is therefore able to articulate his savant experience. describing his mathematical calculations in terms of shape-form and visualizations and emotionally sensitive reactions [a particular fondness for pi] rather than by traditional methodical processes. Tammet holds the European record for remembering and recounting pi, recounting it in a several hour session to its 22514th digit. [1]

Professor Allan Snyder at the Australian National University said of Tammet: "Savants can't usually tell us how they do what they do," says Snyder. "It just comes to them. Daniel can. He describes what he sees in his head. That's why he's exciting. He could be the Rosetta Stone."

He was the subject of a documentary in the UK titled The Boy With The Amazing Brain that was broadcast on Five on May 24, 2005. It showed highlights of his feat of recalling Pi as well as his meeting with the American autistic savant Kim Peek. In one emotional moment of the show, Peek hugged Tammet and told him "I hope you are as brilliant as me one day."

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Frank Apisa wrote:

And you with the Spanish?

<buzzer braying> Wrong guess, Frank: he'd have burnt me at the stake.

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"You want to defend abortion? Bring it on."

I defend the woman's right to choose. What give you the right to choose another woman's choice?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

"You want to defend abortion? Bring it on."

I defend the woman's right to choose. What give you the right to choose another woman's choice?

I think zygotes should also have the right to choose.

First, there would need to be a period of education so zygotes would be able to make an informed decision. How about - oh, let's say - 18 years and nine months?

Fair is fair. Right?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

"You want to defend abortion? Bring it on."

I defend the woman's right to choose. What give you the right to choose another woman's choice?

First, this is gonna be very interesting, considering your earlier position that the moral standards you hold to apply only to you and no one else. So it is fascinating to see you try to develop a standard of how I or anyone else should stand on this issue.

That being said, the choice to kill an innocent and defenseless child is not a valid or acceptable choice.

You would do jail time if you were to put a dog down in the same manner that abortions are performed.

Saline abortions -- the child is burned alive in chemical saline solution until dead then extracted from the womb.

D&C abortions -- the child is dismembered little by little until dead and then extracted from the womb.

Partial birth -- the childs body from foot to shoulder is extracted from the womb, the base of the skull is punctured and the brains sucked out.

Go ahead, your turn Imposter. Defend it.

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Pro-choice is a vacuous concept. It states that we all morally have the right to do what we desire to do. It does not, however, allow us to murder, etc., or do anything likewise considered immoral. This reduces the statement to: We are morally allowed to do what is moral.

You cannot state that abortion is moral because it is the woman's choice. This is as circular as saying, "Abortion is moral because abortion is moral."

I think that going back to the zygote might be a little too far, however. You cannot argue only for the potentiality of life. If you were to do so, then sterile victims of murder would be less important: they weren't going to have any kids, whereas another murder prevented the future birth of others. I think we do, however, have to pick some kind of developmental stage and go with it - the point at which we can say that a child is essentially self-conscious... anyway, trying to not get off topic.

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That's correct; my moral standards only apply to me. I can't enforce my wishes to have a woman perform or not perform an abortion. That's entirely her choice in accordance with current laws. For those of you that argue about each life having value, what about all those children who are starving or are born with HIV/AIDS? If you really value life, why aren't you doing anything about those already born that really needs your help? I don't presume to have all the answers, but in the whole scheme of things on this planet, it's not my business what a woman does to her own body or to an embryo. That's for the doctors and ethisists to determine. I'm just not going to enforce my wishes; the laws of the land and the doctors are more capable to determine what is best for the woman.

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Taken from another Forum on a2k.

"I had to rethink my answer to deb when i saw this today:

"In a statement distributed after his guilty pleas, Rudolph portrayed himself as a devout Christian and said the bombings(of abortion clinics) were motivated by his hatred of abortion and a federal government that lets it continue." "

IOWs there are extremes on both sides of this issue.

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Abortion should be called what it actually is: Murder. If the government wants to make the murder of certain individuals legal, it should state so in no uncertain terms.

It ain't mercy killing;
It ain't euthanasia;
It ain't pregnancy termination;
It wasn't a zygote;
It wasn't a fetus;
It wasn't a neonate;
It ain't infanticide;
It ain't pro choice and it ain't abortion;

"It is as it is." Edward III

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cicerone imposter wrote:

That's correct; my moral standards only apply to me. I can't enforce my wishes to have a woman perform or not perform an abortion. That's entirely her choice in accordance with current laws. For those of you that argue about each life having value, what about all those children who are starving or are born with HIV/AIDS? If you really value life, why aren't you doing anything about those already born that really needs your help? I don't presume to have all the answers, but in the whole scheme of things on this planet, it's not my business what a woman does to her own body or to an embryo. That's for the doctors and ethisists to determine. I'm just not going to enforce my wishes; the laws of the land and the doctors are more capable to determine what is best for the woman.

We are also, and especially, talking about what is best for the child, since he is the one who ends up dead.

Interesting that you want to talk about world hunger or AIDS or anything except moral justification for abortion.

If you can enforce your view against having yourself murdered or against having your neighbor Bob murdered , why are you unable to say that murdering a child is wrong also?

Why do you support the brutal dismemberment of children in the name of "freedom" ?

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neologist wrote:

Abortion should be called what it actually is: Murder. If the government wants to make the murder of certain individuals legal, it should state so in no uncertain terms.

It ain't mercy killing;
It ain't euthanasia;
It ain't pregnancy termination;
It wasn't a zygote;
It wasn't a fetus;
It wasn't a neonate;
It ain't infanticide;
It ain't pro choice and it ain't abortion;

"It is as it is." Edward III

So neo you do advocate that abortion be a capital crime, death penality?

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RexRed wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
And the kinds of insults to our personal freedom currently being peddled by large segments of the Christian community....a segment not being tempered by the remainder of the community....

...are a greater danger to our personal freedom than Islam or facism or communism ever were or will be.

Frank considering you are in denial of what Christianity is. You cannot see anyway God can be vindicated in the Bible so what makes you think your opinion is not biased and untrustworthy?

You take extremely clear scriptures and try to counter them with cultural vacuums and human shortfalls in the text.

Rather than vindicate a foundational God based on truth you would rather the God of the Bible be a mirror of an ailing human condition...

You cannot read the word of God "spiritually" but you read it in a linear literal fashion. You devalue the truth that dispels the darkness. It is up to you to see God from the right perspective.

You cannot perceive the certain emphasis of various figures of speech in the scriptures. Figures of speech tell a believer what is to be "emphasized" and what is to be used only for consideration... Just because we consider something does not mean it should be law. There is the value of deterrence when spiritual commodities are limited and juvenile.

You magnify the harsh realities of the old testament above the comforting spiritual scriptural reality and liberation of the church epistles...

Ephesians 4:
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the [same]measure of the gift of Christ.

Comment:
ONE MIND

Leviticus 25:10
And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.

Isaiah 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Jeremiah 34:8
This is the word that came unto Jeremiah from the LORD, after that the king Zedekiah had made a covenant with all the people which were at Jerusalem, to proclaim liberty unto them;

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

1Corinthians 8:9
But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to them that are weak.

2Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Comment:
These scriptures are very clear yet you choose to magnify the more subjective vague scriptures of the OT, prophesied by prophets that were only partially able to perceive the spirit realm...

This either shows a narrow vision as a whole or a motive to actually diminish the importance of the biblical God through rhetoric and error.

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Galatians 5:13
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Comment:
Frank what do you consider the "perfect law of liberty" is?
How will you ever figure out the law of liberty when you are too busy magnifying the law of sin and death?

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Comment: Does this sound like equality Frank? "all one in Christ"?

Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Romans 2:11 - Show Context
For there is no respect of persons with God.

Comment:
No respect of persons means that God does not favor one person over another... isn't that equality? Again Frank you are making things up... Is it possibly you that has no respect for God in return?

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond[slaves] nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Romans 8:
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption [sonship], whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Comment:
God was made subject to vanity so we could know liberty...

Peace with God...

You are in such denial, Rex....that I pity you.

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Which Religion is the One True Religion?

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