Re: seek and you shall find
kaclark wrote:It's not the first time I have been ridiculed, and I expect it won't be the last.
I submit, kaclarc, in this discussion it was not you that was criticized, but rather it was your proposition, and its method of presentation, that was dismissed. Not knowing you, not even being able to see you, no one here has any basis for ridiculing you. All we have to work witrh is what you give us in your postings, and anyone may assess and comment upon anything anyone posts, however they see fit, so long as its done in civil fashion. Doing so in adult manner is a plus, but not a deal breaker; childish generally passes muster, even if it contributes little to the dialogue.
going on, you wrote:It's so much better to not have a heart hardened like Pharaoh did so one can at least listen.
Most folks here are quite willing to listen. Lots of folks here see no point in listening to parroting, preaching, and proselytizing. Some folks here much prefer original substance to stale echo.
next, you wrote:Sorry I wrote so much, but I was trying to get the meat of the message in there in the shortest amount of space I could think of. I was trying to answer the person who first posed the question.
Nothing to apologize for in and of that - we all write pretty much whatever we want to whomever we might care to interact - that's the deal; free forum. Civil, but free.
moving to your close, you wrote:I still believe in Jesus, and that He is the way, the truth, and the life, just like he said. I will always believe it. I would hope that everyone else would, too, but that is a choice each individual has to make.
Cool -that's what you believe. What works for you works for you. You've established where you're coming from - of far more interest than that, at least to some following along here, would be some discussion of how you got to where you are. Where you think you're going - ultimately - is a given, too, proceeding naturally from your opening proposition, so not much point going very far into that, either; unless you really have something new in regards those particulars, we've all heard it all before.
nearing the end, you wrote: No one can force you to believe in him,
No argument there - I'm sure everyone agrees with you on that point.
and for the wrap, you wrote:but someday we will all appear before our Maker, and I want Jesus to be my advocate.
kaclark
And here we have a major problem of logic and forensics. You assert what you believe as though it were incontravertable, independently established fact. I submit that the foundation for your core premis is not in fact independently established, but proceeds from an unsupported, and wholly internally referenced assumption. In a debate, one has no way to go but to defeat when one founds one's primary argument on a logical fallacy. Note well, please, I do not ridicule or otherwise disparage or criticize you, however, I can only dismiss your argument as being, from its outset, unworthy of consideration. And mind you again, I address yoir argument, and its method of presentation; I do not address either you or the validity of the core proposition of your argument. I ask only that you validly establish the proposition from which you proceed. It cannot be dismissed out-of-hand; it is possible, never, despite significant weight and volume of contraindication of most rigorous and intellectually hionest nature, has it been established that it is not possible. However, it cannot be taken as a given, no matter how passionately and sincerely you believe it. Weighing the evidence, one must logically conclude the validity of that foundational proposition is suspect at least, if not indeed wildly improbable.
And that brings us full circle: have you anything else to bring to the table - anything new, anything which has not been heard and heard and heard, and examined and examined and examined? I'm not only willing, but eager to see something of substance. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. By definition, there can be nothing ordinary about God. I find it incongruous that most champions of the God proposition campaign in so predictable, insubstantial, repetitiously ordinary a manner, doing far more service to the propositions set forth by their adversaries than for their own proposition.
Understand, you're perfectly entitled to hold and espouse any viewpoint you find agreeable. No one denies you that. And, by the same token, no one is required to agree with your proposition, nor is anyone proscribed from detailing those points of disagreement. Civilly, of course, and preferrably in adult fashion, but civilly at the very least.
