Which Religion is the One True Religion?

I have a question for anyone interested...

I admire Martin Luther...

Did Martin Luther create the truth or did the truth create Martin Luther?

"God foresees, foreordains, and accomplishes all things by an unchanging, eternal, and effacious will. By this thunderbolt free will sinks shattered in the dust."

"This is the acme of faith, to believe that God, Who saves so few and condemns so many, is merciful; that He is just Who has made us necessarily doomed to damnation, so that....He seems to delight in the tortures of the wretched, and to be more deserving of hatred than of love."

About Jews:"And let those whosoever can, throw brimstone and pitch upon them; if one could hurl hell-fire at them, so much the better....And this must be done for the honor of Our Lord and of Christianity, so that God may see that we are indeed Christians. Let their houses also be shattered and destroyed...Let their prayer books and Talmuds be taken from them, and their whole Bible too; let their rabbis be forbidden, on pain of death, to teach henceforth any more. Let the streets and highways be closed against them. Let them be forbidden to practice usury, and let all their money, and all their treasures of silver and gold be taken from them and put away in safety. And if all this not be enough, let them be driven like mad dogs out of the land.

"The peasants would not listen ...their ears must be unbuttoned with bullets, till their heads jump off their shoulders."

"If by any effort I could conceive how God, Who shows so much anger and iniquity, could be merciful and just, there would be no need of faith."

"The hand that wields the secular sword is not a human hand but the hand of God. It is God, not man, who hangs and breaks on the wheel, and decapitates, and flogs; it is God who wages war."

"I know Satan very well."

"All the articles of our Christian faith, which God has revealed to us in His Word, are in presence of reason sheerly impossible, absurd, and false....Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has."

Luke 21:12-36 "I tell you truly, that there are some of those standing right here who will never taste death before they see the kingdom of God. And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on earth an anxious mass of people in confusion over the roar of the sea and the tides, with people dying of fear and apprehension about what's coming over the world. Yes, the powers of heaven will be shaken. And then the will see the Son of Man on a cloud with power and great glory. When these things start to happen, look up and raise your heads, because your redemption is approaching. When you see these tings happening, you know the kingdom of God is close. I assure you that this generation will not pass away till it all happens."

I don't know about you but to me that's a fairly specific timeline on when all of this is supposed to happen. Not only is a specific time frame given, but a very specific account of exactly what is supposed to happen is given. So where exactly in the bible does it say Jesus "does not know" when this will happen. And if it is in there wouldn't that be contradictory to what he is saying here?

Your posts rarely fail to impress me, Neo. I'm certainly happy to have made your cyberacquaintance, and venture to say the two of us, irrespective our positions, would enjoy helloutta an evening of face-to-face idea exhange over our respective preferred adult beverages

neologism - You still don't seem to understand what we're saying. If they had perfect consciences, they would not desire to do away with those consciences. It would protect itself (almost reminds me of the Categorical Imperative.)

RexRed wrote:

Frank wrote:

The idea of the need for a human sacrifice to propitiate a god should have gone into the dumpster long before this.

Comment:
The sacrifice was not to appease some barbaric God...

Well...it only makes sense if it was, Rex. You are so far into denial that you cannot even see that.

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...again Frank you seem to constantly be on the wrong side of the issue... like your hatred of the biblical God is blinding your ability to even be fair...

One....I am definitely on the "right" side of this issue....and I have no more hatred of the biblical God than I have of the Grinch that stole Christmas!

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Yes, some biblical believers are so zealous to find God that they will believe anything. Meekness can be disturbed my many external forces... I see that with you too... but in reverse and tilted... you are zealous to nullify the biblical God to such an extent that you are unable to even consider reasonably that you may be wrong...

Jesus Christ, Rex....I dare say that there is no one in A2K (or was over in Abuzz) who acknowledges that he may be wrong than I do. What are you smoking?

By acknowledging that I do not know the answer to any of these Ultimate Questions....I am acknowledging that ANY of my guesses may be wrong.

Nobody else in A2K comes even close to acknowledging that stuff as often as I do....and your charge that I am unable to consider reasonably that I may be wrong is so wrong-headed, I am even surprised it comes from you.

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...... even well intended ignorance is still travesty...

AMEN . That is what we've all been trying to get across to you.

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Jesus Christ's sacrifice was for me and you...

Sacrifice to whom...or to what?

To your god.

Jesus...and all you holy rollers...seeem to think that your god needed sacrifice in order to be appeased.

Wake up!

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...although he may not have known this at the time of his death... Yet, the mystery was revealed to Paul and the church was a result of this metamorphism of the human spirit.

Paul hi-jacked the religion born of the words of Jesus...and turned the message of Jesus into horseshyt. Sorry you cannot see that....but that blindness is yours...not mine.

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You seem to forget that God did not kill Jesus Christ...

Well he sure as hell didn't stop it either. And since you Christians now claim that Jesus died because of your sins (read that...died to appease the god offended by the stuff humans do)....in effect, he did kill Jesus.

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Yet somehow in your mind you have probably even twisted this... Had the world only accepted Christ then God would have brought paradise to the earth on that very day.

And just how the f**k do you know that?

Is that include in this fairytale...or do you just make up convenient bullshyt?

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Yet the world in rejection of the groom committing murder inadvertently is saved by it's own evil. So bad people fall on their own swords and still live but only by the grace of God... So watch the pen you have Frank it is very sharp...

Crap like this makes me wanna throw up.

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It is this message that took the Catholic church out of the dark ages... why were they called dark ages?

Because this wonderful Christian religion of yours turned off all honest inquiry into the mechanics of the world.

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Because the message of the scriptures was lost to the world at the time and a form of Babylonian Christianity had taken dominance... The true Christian message and scripture was not published and people were in the dark about their spiritual rights..

Yeah...sure!

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You are in the dark ages too Frank... Yet you are not being held by some pope... You stand in total fear of this God ...

To fear this god makes as much sense as fearing the Grinch...or a troll.

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....that you have imagined that the only solitude you have these days are when you have successfully shut him out...

Only if I could play golf with him. Then I would be pleased if I shut him out. Other than that....he is a joke.

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The last place that people looked was the Bible for truth...

Good...because that is the last place they'd ever find it.

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Suddenly then at the reformation the Bible began to make sense to the monks... And years of tyranny led to revolution and even more bloodshed.. It was the written words of the Bible that brought about the reformation and the world is still trying to get back to that "simple" message of the first century Christians.

Protestantism is not about "speaking out"... Martin Luther in so much said said that devils speak out too... It was not about the right of the common person to cause revolution... It was about the Bible's ability to provide truth...

Martin Luther was not for speaking out even though he is remembered as being outspoken. He was out spoken because he had the authority of the scriptures. This was why he could not recant because he knew that what he had said and written he was (for the most part) quoting from the Bible.

This was what brought religious freedom to the world. Though the movement was in it's infancy and today still had a ways to go it was all a result of the very words of freedom that have been overlooked by people like you, but these words of emancipation are still in the Bible and have been for 2000 years...

Barrrrffff!

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John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Oh, not again. Yep...heaaaaave.

SN95 wrote:

Luke 21:12-36 "I tell you truly, that there are some of those standing right here who will never taste death before they see the kingdom of God. And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on earth an anxious mass of people in confusion over the roar of the sea and the tides, with people dying of fear and apprehension about what's coming over the world. Yes, the powers of heaven will be shaken. And then the will see the Son of Man on a cloud with power and great glory. When these things start to happen, look up and raise your heads, because your redemption is approaching. When you see these tings happening, you know the kingdom of God is close. I assure you that this generation will not pass away till it all happens."

I don't know about you but to me that's a fairly specific timeline on when all of this is supposed to happen. Not only is a specific time frame given, but a very specific account of exactly what is supposed to happen is given. So where exactly in the bible does it say Jesus "does not know" when this will happen. And if it is in there wouldn't that be contradictory to what he is saying here?

Did you actually look into your copy of the bible to find these scriptures or did you take someone else's word for it? The scriptures are in the bible all right, just not where you said they were. Matthew, Mark and Luke all record something similar to this in Luke 9:27. "But I tell YOU truthfully, There are some of those standing here that will not taste death at all until first they see the kingdom of God." In each case the next event recorded is the transfiguration. Jesus was and is God's representative for the kingdom. If you are able to understand that, fine. If not, there are bigger fish to fry.

As for Jesus not knowing the time, here is what it says at Matthew 24:36. "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father."

The remainder of what I believe you are referring to is the prophecy concerning the end times. It is a two fold prophecy foretelling first the destruction of Jerusalem and later the great day of God Almighty yet to come (often referred to as Armageddon)

Jerusalem fell in 70 C.E. Armageddon has not occurred. Some believe it won't. I think it will.

neologist wrote:

SN95 wrote:

Luke 21:12-36 "I tell you truly, that there are some of those standing right here who will never taste death before they see the kingdom of God. And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on earth an anxious mass of people in confusion over the roar of the sea and the tides, with people dying of fear and apprehension about what's coming over the world. Yes, the powers of heaven will be shaken. And then the will see the Son of Man on a cloud with power and great glory. When these things start to happen, look up and raise your heads, because your redemption is approaching. When you see these tings happening, you know the kingdom of God is close. I assure you that this generation will not pass away till it all happens."

I don't know about you but to me that's a fairly specific timeline on when all of this is supposed to happen. Not only is a specific time frame given, but a very specific account of exactly what is supposed to happen is given. So where exactly in the bible does it say Jesus "does not know" when this will happen. And if it is in there wouldn't that be contradictory to what he is saying here?

Did you actually look into your copy of the bible to find these scriptures or did you take someone else's word for it? The scriptures are in the bible all right, just not where you said they were. Matthew, Mark and Luke all record something similar to this in Luke 9:27. "But I tell YOU truthfully, There are some of those standing here that will not taste death at all until first they see the kingdom of God." In each case the next event recorded is the transfiguration. Jesus was and is God's representative for the kingdom. If you are able to understand that, fine. If not, there are bigger fish to fry.

As for Jesus not knowing the time, here is what it says at Matthew 24:36. "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father."

The remainder of what I believe you are referring to is the prophecy concerning the end times. It is a two fold prophecy foretelling first the destruction of Jerusalem and later the great day of God Almighty yet to come (often referred to as Armageddon)

Jerusalem fell in 70 C.E. Armageddon has not occurred. Some believe it won't. I think it will.

This is for both Real Life and Neologist, for brevity I will put it in a single post. When I cited the quote I gave the chapter and verses from which I was speaking, however, it was not word for word. As in, I did not write down everything included in the verses between 12 and 36 only what was relevant to the discussion. I'll be sure to quote the ENTIRE thing in the future to save from these petty objections.

Neo, you use Matthew in your assertion that Jesus "does not know" when the kingdom of God will be upon us. Matthew says the same thing as Luke:

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

and again....

24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

I made sure to do it verse by verse this time because heaven knows it was so difficult to understand my point the last time.

Back to the point, how is this not clear to you? This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Yet, 2,000 years later, when all the disciples are well and truly dead and buried, none of these things have come to pass and Jesus has not returned.

If I'm pulling all this out of context as you say then why don't you explain to me exactly what was meant here? How can this be a two fold prophecy when it states that everything will happen before those standing here taste death? Clearly, not everything that was foretold has happened yet and clearly everyone who was there is dead.

There's that convenient "Admittedly, X is what was said, but as it is inconvenient if taken literally, the more convenient allegorical sense of Y obviously is what was meant" defense. Thats always been a real favorite. Its just SO handy - sorta like an adjustable wrench.

Um...... Hate to break up your party but, to what and/or to who are you referring?

Now, to Jesus statement in Matt 24 that the generation that sees those signs would not pass till they were fulfilled:

What makes you think that this is referring to his own generation?

real life wrote:

Um...... Hate to break up your party but, to what and/or to who are you referring?

You, who just wrote:

Now, to Jesus statement in Matt 24 that the generation that sees those signs would not pass till they were fulfilled:

What makes you think that this is referring to his own generation?

Or did you mean what you typed in some allegorical sense?

Hi SN,

I try not to issue petty objections. The fact is that some of the verses you were trying to include in the passage ARE NOT THERE AT ALL. It is not that you abbreviated the passage, leaving some things out. You conflated several passages, trying to make them fit together and did not (and still have not) admit that you had done so.

Now, to Jesus statement in Matt 24 that the generation that sees those signs would not pass till they were fulfilled:

What makes you think that this is referring to his own generation?

real life wrote:

Hi SN,

I try not to issue petty objections. The fact is that some of the verses you were trying to include in the passage ARE NOT THERE AT ALL. It is not that you abbreviated the passage, leaving some things out. You conflated several passages, trying to make them fit together and did not (and still have not) admit that you had done so.

Now, to Jesus statement in Matt 24 that the generation that sees those signs would not pass till they were fulfilled:

What makes you think that this is referring to his own generation?

Yeah, what you said. And you both are welcome at Joe's.