Which Religion is the One True Religion?

timberlandko wrote:

RexRed, the flaw in your argument is that it proceeds from the assumption it already is proven. A thing or condition cannot prove itself, and any attempt to prove the existence of a deity, or to prove the validity of religious concept or claim, by means of reference to sacred writings purporting to support the claim are invalid forensically in that they are wholly internally referential; circular reasoning and nothing more. The "Fly-in-the-ointment" thing there - which is insuperable - is the whole "FAITH" deal - "Faith" is merely conviction; it has no externally referential, independently verifiable, repeatable observational basis. There simply is no functional difference between "Faith" and superstition, no matter how firmly one of whatever "FAITH" may be convinced that "FAITH" is "Real". That it may be believed means niether more nor less than that it is believed, and in no way entails that it be real. As said earlier, religious faith is at best a guess, and at worst a conscious, intentional fraud.

At best it is "THE TRUTH"... you seem to be forgetting that possibility... Smile

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thunder_runner32 wrote:

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frank, We all know thunder will provide the names of scientists who are also christians - without much credibility in the scientific world.

Is it possible that the ones who have come to this conclusion have become christians? Then it's pretty clear why the only ones who think this way are the christians. Why would any other scientist with these conclusions not decide to change their life?

I find it odd that you have a picture of Darth Maul as your avatar.

He not only resembles a devilish figure. But in the movie his kind is the epitome of all evil.

Yet, you obvoiusly somewhat revere him. Why?

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Neologist,
.....As I stand here, gently tapping on my ax......Hm-m-m-m............ O-o-o-o-kay,...I set the ax down.....stick own neck out there. I can concur with that belief if you can concede that we must use our God given brain to determine the essential truth from man-made BS, and not blindly take the word of ministers, priests, and other self-professed "messengers".
..... You see, I believe we all have a direct line to God if we use the tools "He" gave us....After all Grasshopper, "As God is love, God is thought"
Cool

..( from the book of the Boo"

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timberlandko wrote:

Poppycock, real life - pure sophistry. Mathematics, for instance, abounds with example of incontravertable objective truth, the validity of which is proven through direct observation and deductive reasoning. It is reason which is the source of truth, not some unreasonable imaginary paranormal entity.

Timber,

Did Man produce Truth (the objective truths found in Mathematics , in your example) by his reason? Or did he discover Truth that was already there?

If Man only discovered that which already was in existence, then reason is not the source of Truth. It is simply one path by which it may be uncovered.

Furthermore, Absolute Truth exists in more than just Mathematics. Objective standards exists in morality as well. There are Absolute standards of right and wrong. It is not the invention of Man either.

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real life wrote:

timberlandko wrote:

Poppycock, real life - pure sophistry. Mathematics, for instance, abounds with example of incontravertable objective truth, the validity of which is proven through direct observation and deductive reasoning. It is reason which is the source of truth, not some unreasonable imaginary paranormal entity.

Timber,

Did Man produce Truth (the objective truths found in Mathematics , in your example) by his reason? Or did he discover Truth that was already there?

If Man only discovered that which already was in existence, then reason is not the source of Truth. It is simply one path by which it may be uncovered.

Furthermore, Absolute Truth exists in more than just Mathematics. Objective standards exists in morality as well. There are Absolute standards of right and wrong. It is not the invention of Man either.

Can truth exist without an observer?

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Without a human observer, nothing matters.

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RexRed wrote:

At best it is "THE TRUTH"... you seem to be forgetting that possibility...

Nope - at best, its a guess, Rex. Certainly its a possibility; its every bit as possible as its converse. To claim primacy for one or the other condition remains nothing more than a guess.

real life wrote:

Did Man produce Truth (the objective truths found in Mathematics , in your example) by his reason? Or did he discover Truth that was already there?

If Man only discovered that which already was in existence, then reason is not the source of Truth. It is simply one path by which it may be uncovered.

Humankind produced the mathematics which demonstrated that certain things and/or conditions were true. With or without mathematics, these things and/or conditions still would be true, but without reason and logic, humankind would have no way of knowing such to be the case. Humankind invented neither the truths nor the methods for discerning them; humankind discovered them - through observation, reason, and logic.

Continuing in the same post, real life wrote:

Furthermore, Absolute Truth exists in more than just Mathematics. Objective standards exists in morality as well. There are Absolute standards of right and wrong. It is not the invention of Man either.

Of course there are moral absolutes - and they're not exclusive to humans. The good of the species determines what is moral - if not good for the survival and propagation of the species, it is not moral, whether you're a human, a wolf, a goose, or a cetacean. With humankind, things get a bit more complicated than is the case with any of our furred, feathered, or finned fellow planet dwellers, as humans not only are pack-centered animals (and that is pack, as differentiated from swarm, flock, herd, or school - a pack is a mutually co-operative, self-supporting, self-advancing, self-governing hierarchical entity), but by human nature are driven to build ever-larger packs, calling for the imposition of standards and proscriptions which govern and foster the development, survival, and advancement of what in the end is that grandest of packs, civilization itself. Humankind has taken morality exponentially beyond that of the lesser critters; humankind came up with ethics, written laws and the legislative and judicial processes. From clans to tribes to city-states to nations to global multi-national politico-economic entities, we've come a long way, baby.

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Okay Gang,
.....After hinting at it in a few well chosen spots, I have finally decided to seriously answer the question of this thread, with my own topic. checkit out folks:
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=53507&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

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Quote:

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thunder, Try to figure out that one for yourself. It might reveal something about why scientists are able to be christian and a scientist. Any scientist trying to prove the bible would have a difficult time proving his credibility as a scientist.

Obviously you can't prove miracles using science, that's why if one is to understand and trust the bible, one must recognize God has unlimited power.

Quote:

I find it odd that you have a picture of Darth Maul as your avatar.

He not only resembles a devilish figure. But in the movie his kind is the epitome of all evil.

Yet, you obvoiusly somewhat revere him. Why?

I just think he's got cool face paint...that's all.

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Nature has unlimited power. To say god has unlimited power is only a guess, because you can't prove this statement.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Nature has unlimited power. To say god has unlimited power is only a guess, because you can't prove this statement.

Most of us believers would define God as having unlimited power. Whether or not it is a guess is subject to argument.

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Isn't it nice that your god with unlimited power can destroy human lives by the thousands like the recent tsunami in Sri Lanka? Didn't even warn Noah. Nothing like a "loving god' who has unlimited power to show it to us wee humans.

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I would say nature is the playing yard of God,or to be more precise, we are constitutive cells of Gods body...

Did anyone of us asked to "be born"?It was Hih first gift.Many other and more or less, seem to be, important personal or national desires are fullfilled during our life...Some of us seem to be more blessed or lucky than the others...Truely speeking the whole world bad and good is His,I firmly believe!

I think God with respect to His planet applies the same laws as those which are practised in the entire universe.

He donot misuse His powers but with respect to the Cosmic laws, applies them to our planet on which we are but cells.

Thus we expand and breathe at the same rythm as the whole and infinite Creation!

Very Happy

That is how I feel It!!! :wink:

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timberlandko wrote:

RexRed wrote:
At best it is "THE TRUTH"... you seem to be forgetting that possibility...

Nope - at best, its a guess, Rex. Certainly its a possibility; its every bit as possible as its converse. To claim primacy for one or the other condition remains nothing more than a guess.

Is it right to deny something that is "true" out of a self centered philosophy of existential vanity? To deny intelligent design over self worship? People wonder why they have not heard God speak. Because they have never tried to talk to God. God is not going to interrupt their house party to remind them who is boss... that is up to the honesty within each soul... but one cannot expect other people who know God intimately to play along. Smile

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"Speak to god..." is an oxymoron. The converse is also true.

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RexRed wrote:

timberlandko wrote:
RexRed wrote:
At best it is "THE TRUTH"... you seem to be forgetting that possibility...

Nope - at best, its a guess, Rex. Certainly its a possibility; its every bit as possible as its converse. To claim primacy for one or the other condition remains nothing more than a guess.

Is it right to deny something that is "true" out of a self centered philosophy of existential vanity? To deny intelligent design over self worship? People wonder why they have not heard God speak. Because they have never tried to talk to God. God is not going to interrupt their house party to remind them who is boss... that is up to the honesty within each soul... but one cannot expect other people who know God intimately to play along.

If you try to talk to Zeus...eventually Zeus is gonna answer. And then you will be sure Zeus exists also.

Become an agnostic....and live with truth, if "truth" is what you truly seek.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

RexRed wrote:
timberlandko wrote:
RexRed wrote:
At best it is "THE TRUTH"... you seem to be forgetting that possibility...

Nope - at best, its a guess, Rex. Certainly its a possibility; its every bit as possible as its converse. To claim primacy for one or the other condition remains nothing more than a guess.

Is it right to deny something that is "true" out of a self centered philosophy of existential vanity? To deny intelligent design over self worship? People wonder why they have not heard God speak. Because they have never tried to talk to God. God is not going to interrupt their house party to remind them who is boss... that is up to the honesty within each soul... but one cannot expect other people who know God intimately to play along.

If you try to talk to Zeus...eventually Zeus is gonna answer. And then you will be sure Zeus exists also.

Become an agnostic....and live with truth, if "truth" is what you truly seek.

Zeus is just another expression for God... and, yes, Zeus (if that is what you want to call God) will answer... But if one never calls upon the powers that be out of self infatuation then it is no mystery why they cannot perceive. Some have eclipsed God/Zeus with their own image...

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RexRed wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
RexRed wrote:
timberlandko wrote:
RexRed wrote:
At best it is "THE TRUTH"... you seem to be forgetting that possibility...

Nope - at best, its a guess, Rex. Certainly its a possibility; its every bit as possible as its converse. To claim primacy for one or the other condition remains nothing more than a guess.

Is it right to deny something that is "true" out of a self centered philosophy of existential vanity? To deny intelligent design over self worship? People wonder why they have not heard God speak. Because they have never tried to talk to God. God is not going to interrupt their house party to remind them who is boss... that is up to the honesty within each soul... but one cannot expect other people who know God intimately to play along.

If you try to talk to Zeus...eventually Zeus is gonna answer. And then you will be sure Zeus exists also.

Become an agnostic....and live with truth, if "truth" is what you truly seek.

Zeus is just another expression for God... and, yes, Zeus (if that is what you want to call God) will answer...

And so will your fairy godmother.

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....But if one never calls upon the powers that be...

So in your opinion, Zeus and your fairy godmother exist!!!!

Gimme a break, will ya.

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....out of self infatuation....

Or because you've got a brain....

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.... then it is no mystery why they cannot perceive.

You almost got this part right. To make your thought correct, you would just have to substitute "...cannot be deluded" for "...cannot perceive."
\

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Some have eclipsed God/Zeus with their own image...

And some are so frightened of the unknown....and their comic book gods....that they post on Internet forums hoping, apparently, to build up points those demons.

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Dear friends,

I would say that we all live in Truth.It is Gods nickname! Very Happy

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Italy politicians defy Church
Leading Italian Catholic politicians have defied a call by the Vatican to boycott a two-day referendum on assisted procreation.
They included President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi who was among the first to vote when the polls opened on Sunday.

Mr Ciampi and his wife, both staunch Catholics, are among the most popular of Italian politicians.

Opposition leader Romano Prodi and Deputy Prime Minister Gianfranco Fini are also voting with their families.

The turnout in this referendum is crucial.

Unless 50% of Italy's 40 million voters turn out to cast their votes, the referendum will be invalid.

Only 4.6% had cast their voted four hours after polling began.

Ties tested

Italians are being asked if they want to amend a restrictive law on assisted procreation which has forced many infertile couples who want children to seek medical assistance abroad

The restrictions include:

a ban on donor sperm and eggs;

a ban on scientific research on embryos;

a ban on embryo screening for couples with hereditary diseases;

the rule that only three embryos per treatment can be created, all of which have to be implanted at the same time.
The law was drafted and passed amid concerns that Italy had become one of the world's most liberal countries regarding assisted fertility.

From being a country where there was virtually no regulation in bioethics - and one fertility doctor was even enabling women in their 60s to become pregnant, and promising human cloning, the law has now swung the other way, says the BBC's David Willey in Rome.

The Roman Catholic Church wants to keep it that way, our correspondent says.

Italian bishops with the backing of the newly-elected Pope Benedict XVI, have told people in the predominantly Catholic country to boycott the vote on moral grounds.

Italian cities are plastered with posters telling Catholics to stay away from the polls.

Many voters say they are angry at this interference by the Church in the democratic process and President Ciampi's lead sent a powerful message to the electorate.

Church-state relations in Italy are facing their most significant challenge since the legalisation of divorce and abortion in the 1970s, says our Rome correspondent.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/4085296.stm

Published: 2005/06/12 13:11:41 GMT
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It seems church dogma is not popular even in a predominately catholic country.

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Which Religion is the One True Religion?

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