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Which Religion is the One True Religion?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 07:12 pm
Purpose? On a2k we have to have a purpose? You're on the wrong site.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 07:14 pm
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real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 08:50 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
"Well, I guess while CI is bashing the Catholics he is leaving the rest of us alone . At least for now."

I don't need to bash the catholics. They do a good enough job by themselves. What I posted is from a news media, and it is not my writing.

Our local newspaper prints stories about pedophile catholic priests all the time, and how much the catholic church is paying in law suits - in the millions. They don't need me to bash them; they're doing it to themselves.


Should we post the increasing number of stories regarding pedophile public school teachers? There's a bunch, and more every month.

What about the stories about abortion doctors who shield pedophiles by defying state laws and not reporting when they have as their 'patient' underage girls who have been impregnated. (Statutory rape is still against the law as far as I know.) Should we post those too?

I don't see what a priest's failure to maintain purity has to do with this topic.

The Bible teaches that all are sinners. So when a priest sins, are you trying to use that to prove the Bible is incorrect? Better pack a lunch, CI. It's gonna be an all day job, if you wanna try it.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:24 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Intrepid, I didn't know I had you on a chain. Free thyself! Do you know how to use the scroll button?


Could you please explain what you mean? You certainly do not have me on a chain. God has made me free, thank you. Are you trying to suppress free speech?

I asked you a simple question and rather than even attempt to answer it you post this. Surely you can do better than this.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:26 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Purpose? On a2k we have to have a purpose? You're on the wrong site.


It is sad to think that you feel there is no purpose. It makes one wonder why you waste your time even coming here. A2K has a purpose even if you cannot see it. Of course, since it is to be found under Ask An Expert, you may feel somewhat inadequate. Don't let that bother you. A2K has a purpose for non experts as well.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:27 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:


Huh?
Shocked Shocked Shocked
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:41 pm
real, You are "free" to post anything you wish on a2k - except for TOS guidelines.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:44 pm
Oh, I'm no expert in anything. It provides some great info on many topics and it's entertainment of the highest order. Besides, it's free! Wink Please don't blame me for the people who think I provide "purpose" or "expert info." They are wasting their time reading my posts - and so are you! LOL .
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:45 pm
If you're sad, that's your problem.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:50 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
If you're sad, that's your problem.


I am not sad for myself... I am sad for you.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:52 pm
Perhaps the whole "Bash The Catholics" thing is nothing more than prejudice, just plain ignorant bigotry. Not much was made of a similar development from the Lutheran Church earlier this summer:

Quote:
Lutherans reject gay clerics

August 13, 2005, Saturday
By LAURIE GOODSTEIN (NYT); National Desk


After a daylong passionate debate, the national assembly of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America rejected a proposal yesterday to allow gay men and lesbians in committed relationships to be ordained as members of the clergy ...

... The 1,018 delegates in Orlando also voted against an amendment that would have given pastors explicit permission to bless same-sex unions ...


Gotta wunner howcome that's buried in the back pages, and the essentially equivalent Catholic announcement is Front Page Headline News.


And when it comes to sexual abuse, The Catholics get lots more press than do the others ... why might that be? Prejudice, mebbe? Anybody able to think of a better answer?
Quote:
Abuse 'not simply a church problem'
April 16, 2002 Posted: 10:48 AM EDT (1448 GMT)

By Thurston Hatcher
CNN

(CNN) -- Experts emphasize that the problem is hardly unique to or more prevalent among priests.

"People are saying there must be something basically wrong with the church, but if you look at it from a broader perspective, this is not simply a church problem or a priest problem," said Stephen Rossetti, a psychologist. "This is a societal problem, and priests are no more likely to be involved."

Fred Berlin, director of the National Institute for the Study, Prevention and Treatment of Sexual Trauma, said he's not aware of any evidence that the problem occurs more often in the church than in other segments of society.

"It's just a tragic problem that's been around for years in all aspects of society," said Berlin, an associate professor of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University.

Rossetti cited statistics suggesting that about 0.8 percent of priests have been sexually involved with minors at some point in their careers. That's less or the same as in society as a whole, he said.




Quote:

March 25, 2002

By TERESA WATANABE, Times Staff Writer


The wave of clergy sex scandals now engulfing the Roman Catholic Church has battered other denominations as well, producing an uneven record of response that ranges from the Episcopal Church's aggressive and detailed policies to the Southern Baptist Convention's widespread lack of written standards.

In the last decade, clergy sexual misconduct has been exposed in virtually every faith tradition. National studies have shown no differences in its frequency by denomination, region, theology or institutional structure ...

... At least one Jewish researcher says that sexual misconduct is still routinely covered up by rabbis. Charlotte Rolnick Schwab, a New York psychotherapist and author of a forthcoming book on rabbis and sex abuse, said she has received hundreds of complaints from women across all movements and still sees rabbis denying them publicly. Congregations themselves sometimes exacerbate the problems, she said.

In one recent case involving a Florida rabbi convicted of using the Internet to find boys and sexually abuse them, congregant support prompted the judge to sentence him to six years in prison instead of the maximum 60 years, Schwab said. "It's outrageous."

Similar charges have been leveled against the Southern Baptist Convention, the largest of the Baptist bodies in the United States. Dee Ann Miller, a victim's advocate and author of books about the topic, said she had received complaints from victims in 30 states, half of them involving minors. She said church officials have not been responsive ...


Quote:
Sex scandals also affect Protestant clergy
RICHARD N. OSTLING, AP Religion Writer
Thursday, April 4, 2002
(04-04) 10:42 PST (AP) --

The flood of sex abuse allegations against priests this year has focused attention on the Roman Catholic Church, but Protestant denominations have also faced sex scandals involving clergy.

In fact, while data are sketchy, at least one expert believes the incidence of clergy molesting young children may be about as frequent -- or infrequent -- in Protestantism as it is in Catholicism.

Penn State historian Philip Jenkins argued in his 1996 book, "Pedophiles and Priests," that both secular and Catholic media exaggerate the extent of Catholic cases involving minors, while downplaying Protestant abuse ..

... Minneapolis psychologist Gary Schoener agreed.

"There are no real scientific data" on Protestants, he said. Since 1974, his Walk-In Counseling Center has been consulted on more than 2,000 cases of clergy sexual misconduct of all types, two-thirds of them with Protestants ...


Quote:
Sex abuse spans spectrum of churches
April 05, 2002

By Mark Clayton | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers ...


Quote:
Clergy Sexual Abuse
written by Frances Park

It is commonly believed that clergy sexual abuse is an exclusively Catholic problem that does not happen in other churches. In a 1983 doctoral thesis by Richard Blackmon, 12% of the 300 Protestant clergy surveyed admitted to sexual intercourse with a parishioner and 38% admitted to other sexualized contact with a parishioner. In separate denominational surveys, 48% of United Church of Christ female ministers and 77% of United Methodist female ministers reported having been sexually harassed in church. Although the actual extent of the problem is unknown, the significance of clergy sexual abuse is acknowledged by the denominational leaders of all Christian churches ...


Quote:
Catholic Church not only religion facing abuse problems, expert says
By Michelle Laque Johnson
Catholic News Service

PHILADELPHIA (CNS) -- Although Catholic priests may be getting the most publicity about allegations of sexual abuse of minors, they are far from the only clergy guilty of such misconduct, according to a professor of history and religious studies at Pennsylvania State University.

"You name me a denomination and I'll give you a case," Philip Jenkins told The Catholic Standard & Times, Philadelphia archdiocesan newspaper. "Some (denominations) with huge problems include Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Buddhists, Jews, Baptists, Pentecostals, Episcopalians -- you name them."

Jenkins' 15 books include "Pedophiles and Priests: Anatomy of a Contemporary Crisis," published in 1996 by Oxford University Press.

One of the most extreme cases of clergy sex abuse in U.S. history involved a Pentecostal minister named Tony Leyva, who molested several hundred boys in the 1980s, Jenkins said. But few Americans have heard of Leyva, he added, while some molesters who are former Catholic priests have become household names.

Jenkins attributes that not to anti-Catholicism, but to various groups within the Catholic Church who have agendas unrelated to the sexual abuse scandal.

"In the 1980s, as cases came to light, it was very often Catholic factions themselves who made this out to be a Catholic issue," he said. "Liberals within the church said, 'See, this is a dreadful problem. It shows what happens when you don't have women priests.' Conservatives said, 'This shows what happens when you have gay priests.' This was adopted by the secular press."

Jenkins said that although the term "pedophile priests" came into usage in the mid-1980s, the problem should have more properly been called "pedophile pastors."

The "pedophile priests" phrase "defines the issue and makes it far more limited than it really is," he added. "In fact, most of the clergy who misbehave are not priests.

"My view is there is no evidence that Catholic clergy offend at a higher or lower rate than other clergy or than nonclergy that deal with children," Jenkins said. "There's no evidence either way. If somebody says, 'Well, it's obvious, they do,' I say, 'Fine, give me the evidence,' and the evidence isn't there."

Patricia Kelly of Kelly Counseling and Consulting in Glen Mills, Pa., agrees that other denominations have at least as high an incidence of sexual misconduct problems as the Catholic Church.

A number of years ago, Kelly said, she participated in a treatment program for clergy with sex abuse problems. "Most of the clergy that were there were not Catholic clergy," she said. "They were Protestant clergy. Most clergy that abuse are ministers, but the (Catholic) Church is sexy. It sells papers."

Writing in the March 3 issue of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Jenkins cited an unnamed Anglican diocese in Canada that "is currently on the verge of bankruptcy as a result of massive lawsuits caused by decades of systematic abuse."

That case refutes the argument that the sex abuse problem stems from the practice of celibacy, he said, since "the Anglican Church does not demand celibacy of its clergy."

In the United States, a $1.2 million judgment in 1991 against the Episcopal Diocese of Colorado in a sexual misconduct case brought by a woman led the Church Insurance Co., which insures Episcopal dioceses, to mandate certain safeguards that are considered among the strictest in the country.

In addition to publishing a sexual misconduct policy and procedures manual and requiring background checks for all clergy, employees and volunteers who regularly supervise youth activities, the Episcopal policy mandates four hours of child sexual abuse awareness training and four hours of training on issues of sexual harassment in the workplace and sexual exploitation in pastoral relationships.

"Church Insurance gave us that extra nudge and said we had to do something because they wouldn't be able to sustain (these awards)," Beverly Factor, sexual misconduct officer for the Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles, told The Los Angeles Times.

Jenkins said "a bold and thorough self-study" of clergy misconduct was done by the Catholic Archdiocese of Chicago in the early 1990s. It looked at every priest who had served in the archdiocese for the past 40 years -- some 2,200 individuals -- and "reopened every internal complaint ever made against these men."

"The standard of evidence applied was not legal proof that would stand up in a court of law, but just the consensus that a particular charge was probably justified," he wrote. "By this low standard, the survey found that about 40 priests -- about 1.8 percent of the whole -- were probably guilty of misconduct with minors at some point in their careers.

"Put another way, no evidence existed against about 98 percent of parish clergy, the overwhelming majority of the group," he added.

In the Post-Gazette article, Jenkins said he is "in no sense soft on the issue of child abuse" and "cannot be called a Catholic apologist, since I am not even a Catholic."

"But I am worried that justified anger over a few awful cases might be turned into ill-focused attacks against innocent clergy," he wrote. "The story of clerical misconduct is bad enough without it turning into an unjustifiable outbreak of religious bigotry against the Catholic Church."




Quote:
Welcome to a collection of news reports of ministers sexually abusing children:

ALL Protestant denominations - 838 Ministers

147 Baptist Ministers

251 "Bible" Church Ministers (fundamentalist/evangelical)

140 Anglican/Episcopalian Ministers

38 Lutheran Ministers

46 Methodist Ministers

19 Presbyterian Ministers

197 various Church Ministers


And, of course, there is the worst of all - at least the worst so far apprehended, Pentacostal Evangelst Tony Leyva:
Quote:
Evangelist TONY LEYVA received a 20 year prison sentence on
March 28 for running a child prostitution ring. Federal Dist. Judge
James Turk called him and his 2 partners "bad to the core." Leyva
was previously sentenced to 2.5 years for sexually abusing 2 boys
in Virginia. His religious accomplices RIAS EDWARD MORRIS, 27, got
15 years, and FREDDIE H. HERRING, 50, got 12 years. All were fined
$5,000. Agents located at least 30 boys, some as young as 8,
molested by Leyva in the past 20 years; some put the total at 800
victims. (New York Times, 3/29/89)


Now, none of this absolves the Catholic priests who are guilty, nor does it absolve the higher-ups who've shielded some of them and sought to evade responsibility; those priests, and their enablers, are every bit as guilty as are their Protestant counterparts - of whom, it should be noted, there appear to be more offenders than in the Cathjolic Church. Now just why do you suppose the Catholics get all the press? Is there any explanation beyond ignorance, prejudice and bigotry? I can think of only one other anewer; deep pockets.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:56 pm
Oh, don't be sad for me; I live a very good life. I'd go as far to say I live a very privileged life. How many in this world can travel around this world as many times as one wishes? I even had a pretty good professional career - most of it in management positions, and even retired early. I have friends all over the world; not many can say the same. You're sad for me? ROFLMAO
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:58 pm
timber, Good for you! Balance is a good thing. Hope you're happy now. I'm not bashing catholics; they bash themselves.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 09:59 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Oh, don't be sad for me; I live a very good life. I'd go as far to say I live a very privileged life. How many in this world can travel around this world as many times as one wishes? I even had a pretty good professional career - most of it in management positions, and even retired early. I have friends all over the world; not many can say the same. You're sad for me? ROFLMAO


You think that puts you above other people? It does not. What does your boasting of having tangible earthly things have to do with religion? You will die just like the poorest person who never got beyone their own backyard. They, however, have a future that you do not even understand.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 10:05 pm
I didn't say it puts me above other people. You did. I don't believe in any religion, so what's your point? Yes, I will die, and so will everybody else. Haven't you learned yet? With life comes death. There's no way to get around that simple fact.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Sep, 2005 10:42 pm
Intrepid, They have a future just like everybody else; they will die never to return. Your assumptions about life after death is a belief burned into your brain by your religion. There is no proof. Your dream is fine; you're welcome to waste your time on this planet dreaming of an after-life, but it's only your wishful thinking. One must learn to live to the fullest while alive on this planet; the guy with the most toys win. Bill Gates is the winner.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Sep, 2005 12:25 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Intrepid, They have a future just like everybody else; they will die never to return. Your assumptions about life after death is a belief burned into your brain by your religion. There is no proof. Your dream is fine; you're welcome to waste your time on this planet dreaming of an after-life, but it's only your wishful thinking. One must learn to live to the fullest while alive on this planet; the guy with the most toys win. Bill Gates is the winner.


You are wrong about so many things. Why do you think you are not wrong about this too? If you do not believe.. fine. Why do you insist on posting silly comments about those who do? Nobody is forcing anything down your throat. Put your hatered aside as it only clouds your already distorted views.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Sep, 2005 01:56 am
Intrepid wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Oh, don't be sad for me; I live a very good life. I'd go as far to say I live a very privileged life. How many in this world can travel around this world as many times as one wishes? I even had a pretty good professional career - most of it in management positions, and even retired early. I have friends all over the world; not many can say the same. You're sad for me? ROFLMAO


You think that puts you above other people? It does not. What does your boasting of having tangible earthly things have to do with religion? You will die just like the poorest person who never got beyone their own backyard. They, however, have a future that you do not even understand.


Intrepid...

...for all you know we will all "die just like the poorest person who never got beyond their own backyard."

"They"...(whoever "they" are)...may not "have a future" at all.

Simply because a person guesses there is an afterlife...does not mean there actually is one...any more than guessing a particular team will win the Super Bowl means it will actually win it.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Sep, 2005 07:44 am
Simply guessing that there is NOT an afterlife...does not mean there actually ISN'T one.
Who do you pick in the Super Bowl? ;-)
0 Replies
 
thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Sep, 2005 07:50 am
Quote:
the guy with the most toys win. Bill Gates is the winner.



Funny, but I don't think it to be true. Life's greatest gifts are the most natural experiences: fellowship, nature, love, culture....food Smile

Toys make your face smile, but do they make your heart smile?
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