maporsche wrote:real life wrote:maporsche wrote:real life wrote:maporsche wrote:RexRed wrote:
I suppose non-christians, few as they may be, are perfect angels... especially democrats.
First off, not that it matters, much of the population is "non-christian". There are millions of people who label themselves as "christian" but are not living the life a "good christian" should. They will die with sin on their heart and go to hell, same as you. I don't think it's possible to die with a clean soul, you'd have to repent the second before you death.
Someone stated that the soul goes to heaven because its reached perfection. Someone explain exactly how that is.
Second off, since you bring politics into this, show me where in the New Testament it says to bomb your neighbors (worldly neighbors, Iraq), MURDER innocent children (out of the womb, Iraq), and ignore and spit on the poor in the country (poor healthcare & rising costs & reduced coverage, ineffective welfare system, lowering taxes on the richest Americans, and creating fewer jobs (our unemployement is over 5%, with Clinton it was under 4%).
I know that I read Jesus say that somewhere, didn't I? Oh and don't even try to bring OT LAWS into this debate, you've repeated OVER AND OVER that those LAWS no longer apply, and that only what Jesus said applies. So defend those republican positions/actions with Jesus' words.
Do I understand you to say that Christians err because they do not have political positions that fulfill the commands of Jesus to feed the poor, care for the sick, etc ?
Are you saying that the government of the US should be fulfilling these commands of Christ?
I thought you were all for separation of church and state?
-----------------
Or would you prefer to discuss Iraq since you mentioned it twice? Saddam Hussein and his sons caused mass graves to be dug in Iraq with thousands of innocent victims. One notable method of torture was to run opponents thru the plastic shredder. Dismemberment and sending the body parts to the widow were also frequent favs. Are you saying that it is immoral to oppose such behavior?
Many innocent civilians unfortunately died in WWII while bringing the era of Hitler to a close. Tens of thousands , in fact.
Innocent civilians have lost their lives in Iraq also, no question. However, many more were brutally murdered under Hussein each year. The gassing of the Kurds comes to mind as another example.
Are you suggesting that Christians, in order to be true to Christ, must turn a blind eye to brutal regimes such as Iraq that murder their own people and are a danger to the world? Hussein's sponsorship of terrorism is well known and his stockpile of 500 tons of uranium just prior to the war is, as any reasonable person could see, NOT an indication of benign intent.
---------------------------
So go for it, maporsche. Either issue is open. You want the government to be the church? Or you want to defend Saddam's right to rule?
I NEVER suggested ANYTHING you just posted. Stop putting words into everyone's mouth. It's pathetic. But to answer your questions 1) No & 2) No.
RexRed stated that Democrat Non-Religionists were "perfect-angels" (sarcastically).
I was pointing out that the SELF-PROCLAIMED religious right were indeed NOT FOLLOWING the laws that Jesus gave to Christians. I was pointing out that they (and apparently YOU) are HYPOCRITES! Jesus would not have ordered Saddam Hussian to be captured, would he? Answer that question, WWJD? To claim to be a follower of Christ (religious right) and have actions that are in direct contridiction to the teachings of your Christ is hypocritical. Is it not?
Questions for you to answer (to keep it simple for you).
1. Would Jesus have killed the innocent Iraqi's to remove Saddam from power?
2. Would Jesus have ordered his followers (Christian's) to remove Saddam, knowing that innocents would be killed?
3. Would Jesus be pleased with money being taken away from the poor and given to the rich?
4. Would you please show me where Jesus said to bomb your enemies and take money from the poor?
Yes let's keep it simple:
If you want the government to fulfill the commands of Christ and provide for the poor and care for the ill, then you are not keeping church and state separate, are you?
I'd like to point out that you are ignorning my questions.
To answer your's.
I do want the government to provide for the poor and care for the ill, NOT because it would fulfill the commands of Christ, but because it's the compassionate, human thing to do. As far as providing for the poor, there are limitations, as far as caring for the ill, healthcare IS a basic human need/right.
So yes, you can care for the poor/ill and keep Church/State seperate.
Now, I would appreciate answers to my questions.
I was trying to spare you some embarrassment, but here ya go.
1. Would Jesus have killed the innocent Iraqi's to remove Saddam from power?
Do you know what Jesus would have done? No you do not. This is a hypothetical question since Jesus was never in the army. However He did speak on several occasions with military personnel and we have no record that He advised them to leave the military.
Jesus did advise His disciples shortly before His death:
And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
2. Would Jesus have ordered his followers (Christian's) to remove Saddam, knowing that innocents would be killed?
You are repeating yourself.
Many more innocents were killed under Saddam's rule. Why do you turn a blind eye to this and pretend it wasn't happening? Why do you ignore the mass graves with hundreds of bodies?
3. Would Jesus be pleased with money being taken away from the poor and given to the rich?
Not sure what you mean by this. But a fair bet is that you are referring to lower taxes. IF this is your argument , apparently you regard the money that belongs to one person (the rich who earned it) as ACTUALLY rightfully belonging to another (the poor who did not earn it). This is called covetousness; and no I don't think Jesus would have endorsed it.
When a person is being taxed at X percentage, and the government lowers his tax rate-- he is able to keep more of HIS OWN money. He has not taken any money from a poor person.
4. Would you please show me where Jesus said to bomb your enemies and take money from the poor?
You are repeating yourself.
See 1, 2 and 3 above.
real life wrote:
I was trying to spare you some embarrassment, but here ya go.
1. Would Jesus have killed the innocent Iraqi's to remove Saddam from power?
Do you know what Jesus would have done? No you do not. This is a hypothetical question since Jesus was never in the army. However He did speak on several occasions with military personnel and we have no record that He advised them to leave the military.
Jesus did advise His disciples shortly before His death:
And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
2. Would Jesus have ordered his followers (Christian's) to remove Saddam, knowing that innocents would be killed?
You are repeating yourself.
Many more innocents were killed under Saddam's rule. Why do you turn a blind eye to this and pretend it wasn't happening? Why do you ignore the mass graves with hundreds of bodies?
3. Would Jesus be pleased with money being taken away from the poor and given to the rich?
Not sure what you mean by this. But a fair bet is that you are referring to lower taxes. IF this is your argument , apparently you regard the money that belongs to one person (the rich who earned it) as ACTUALLY rightfully belonging to another (the poor who did not earn it). This is called covetousness; and no I don't think Jesus would have endorsed it.
When a person is being taxed at X percentage, and the government lowers his tax rate-- he is able to keep more of HIS OWN money. He has not taken any money from a poor person.
4. Would you please show me where Jesus said to bomb your enemies and take money from the poor?
You are repeating yourself.
See 1, 2 and 3 above.
Thanks for the answers.
I do not turn a blind eye to Saddam's horrors, but I believe that your Christ WOULD have based on his quotes that I posted previously. I am merely trying to point out the hypocrisy your religion lends itself to.
How do you feel about these quotes and what do they mean to you?
"Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." MAT 5:44
"Love your neighbor as you love yourself." MARK 12:31
"Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you." LUKE 6:27
"Love one another, just as I love you." JOHN 15:12
maporsche wrote:real life wrote:maporsche wrote:real life wrote:maporsche wrote:RexRed wrote:
I suppose non-christians, few as they may be, are perfect angels... especially democrats.
First off, not that it matters, much of the population is "non-christian". There are millions of people who label themselves as "christian" but are not living the life a "good christian" should. They will die with sin on their heart and go to hell, same as you. I don't think it's possible to die with a clean soul, you'd have to repent the second before you death.
Someone stated that the soul goes to heaven because its reached perfection. Someone explain exactly how that is.
Second off, since you bring politics into this, show me where in the New Testament it says to bomb your neighbors (worldly neighbors, Iraq), MURDER innocent children (out of the womb, Iraq), and ignore and spit on the poor in the country (poor healthcare & rising costs & reduced coverage, ineffective welfare system, lowering taxes on the richest Americans, and creating fewer jobs (our unemployement is over 5%, with Clinton it was under 4%).
I know that I read Jesus say that somewhere, didn't I? Oh and don't even try to bring OT LAWS into this debate, you've repeated OVER AND OVER that those LAWS no longer apply, and that only what Jesus said applies. So defend those republican positions/actions with Jesus' words.
Do I understand you to say that Christians err because they do not have political positions that fulfill the commands of Jesus to feed the poor, care for the sick, etc ?
Are you saying that the government of the US should be fulfilling these commands of Christ?
I thought you were all for separation of church and state?
-----------------
Or would you prefer to discuss Iraq since you mentioned it twice? Saddam Hussein and his sons caused mass graves to be dug in Iraq with thousands of innocent victims. One notable method of torture was to run opponents thru the plastic shredder. Dismemberment and sending the body parts to the widow were also frequent favs. Are you saying that it is immoral to oppose such behavior?
Many innocent civilians unfortunately died in WWII while bringing the era of Hitler to a close. Tens of thousands , in fact.
Innocent civilians have lost their lives in Iraq also, no question. However, many more were brutally murdered under Hussein each year. The gassing of the Kurds comes to mind as another example.
Are you suggesting that Christians, in order to be true to Christ, must turn a blind eye to brutal regimes such as Iraq that murder their own people and are a danger to the world? Hussein's sponsorship of terrorism is well known and his stockpile of 500 tons of uranium just prior to the war is, as any reasonable person could see, NOT an indication of benign intent.
---------------------------
So go for it, maporsche. Either issue is open. You want the government to be the church? Or you want to defend Saddam's right to rule?
I NEVER suggested ANYTHING you just posted. Stop putting words into everyone's mouth. It's pathetic. But to answer your questions 1) No & 2) No.
RexRed stated that Democrat Non-Religionists were "perfect-angels" (sarcastically).
I was pointing out that the SELF-PROCLAIMED religious right were indeed NOT FOLLOWING the laws that Jesus gave to Christians. I was pointing out that they (and apparently YOU) are HYPOCRITES! Jesus would not have ordered Saddam Hussian to be captured, would he? Answer that question, WWJD? To claim to be a follower of Christ (religious right) and have actions that are in direct contridiction to the teachings of your Christ is hypocritical. Is it not?
Questions for you to answer (to keep it simple for you).
1. Would Jesus have killed the innocent Iraqi's to remove Saddam from power?
2. Would Jesus have ordered his followers (Christian's) to remove Saddam, knowing that innocents would be killed?
3. Would Jesus be pleased with money being taken away from the poor and given to the rich?
4. Would you please show me where Jesus said to bomb your enemies and take money from the poor?
Yes let's keep it simple:
If you want the government to fulfill the commands of Christ and provide for the poor and care for the ill, then you are not keeping church and state separate, are you?
I'd like to point out that you are ignorning my questions.
To answer your's.
I do want the government to provide for the poor and care for the ill, NOT because it would fulfill the commands of Christ, but because it's the compassionate, human thing to do. As far as providing for the poor, there are limitations, as far as caring for the ill, healthcare IS a basic human need/right.
So yes, you can care for the poor/ill and keep Church/State seperate.
Now, I would appreciate answers to my questions.
You specifically trashed Christians because you think their politics do not line up with New Testament teaching, specifically the commands of Christ.
Quote: So defend those republican positions/actions with Jesus' words.
Yet if a Christian were to propose a law based on Jesus' teaching, you would cry foul and cite separation of church and state. Do not deny it.
If you want the government to take the functions of the church (feeding the poor, caring for the ill) then you are going about the business of establishing religion, in violation of the First Amendment.
Perhaps you should instead focus on the Tenth Amendment which states that the authority granted to the federal government is to be limited to the very few and specific powers delineated in the Constitution. All else is reserved to the States and to the people.
Do the compassionate and human thing and help the poor and care for the ill. Don't assume that you need the government or the government's permission to do that.
If you want a Nanny State for your government, there's always Europe.
real life wrote:maporsche wrote:real life wrote:maporsche wrote:real life wrote:maporsche wrote:RexRed wrote:
I suppose non-christians, few as they may be, are perfect angels... especially democrats.
First off, not that it matters, much of the population is "non-christian". There are millions of people who label themselves as "christian" but are not living the life a "good christian" should. They will die with sin on their heart and go to hell, same as you. I don't think it's possible to die with a clean soul, you'd have to repent the second before you death.
Someone stated that the soul goes to heaven because its reached perfection. Someone explain exactly how that is.
Second off, since you bring politics into this, show me where in the New Testament it says to bomb your neighbors (worldly neighbors, Iraq), MURDER innocent children (out of the womb, Iraq), and ignore and spit on the poor in the country (poor healthcare & rising costs & reduced coverage, ineffective welfare system, lowering taxes on the richest Americans, and creating fewer jobs (our unemployement is over 5%, with Clinton it was under 4%).
I know that I read Jesus say that somewhere, didn't I? Oh and don't even try to bring OT LAWS into this debate, you've repeated OVER AND OVER that those LAWS no longer apply, and that only what Jesus said applies. So defend those republican positions/actions with Jesus' words.
Do I understand you to say that Christians err because they do not have political positions that fulfill the commands of Jesus to feed the poor, care for the sick, etc ?
Are you saying that the government of the US should be fulfilling these commands of Christ?
I thought you were all for separation of church and state?
-----------------
Or would you prefer to discuss Iraq since you mentioned it twice? Saddam Hussein and his sons caused mass graves to be dug in Iraq with thousands of innocent victims. One notable method of torture was to run opponents thru the plastic shredder. Dismemberment and sending the body parts to the widow were also frequent favs. Are you saying that it is immoral to oppose such behavior?
Many innocent civilians unfortunately died in WWII while bringing the era of Hitler to a close. Tens of thousands , in fact.
Innocent civilians have lost their lives in Iraq also, no question. However, many more were brutally murdered under Hussein each year. The gassing of the Kurds comes to mind as another example.
Are you suggesting that Christians, in order to be true to Christ, must turn a blind eye to brutal regimes such as Iraq that murder their own people and are a danger to the world? Hussein's sponsorship of terrorism is well known and his stockpile of 500 tons of uranium just prior to the war is, as any reasonable person could see, NOT an indication of benign intent.
---------------------------
So go for it, maporsche. Either issue is open. You want the government to be the church? Or you want to defend Saddam's right to rule?
I NEVER suggested ANYTHING you just posted. Stop putting words into everyone's mouth. It's pathetic. But to answer your questions 1) No & 2) No.
RexRed stated that Democrat Non-Religionists were "perfect-angels" (sarcastically).
I was pointing out that the SELF-PROCLAIMED religious right were indeed NOT FOLLOWING the laws that Jesus gave to Christians. I was pointing out that they (and apparently YOU) are HYPOCRITES! Jesus would not have ordered Saddam Hussian to be captured, would he? Answer that question, WWJD? To claim to be a follower of Christ (religious right) and have actions that are in direct contridiction to the teachings of your Christ is hypocritical. Is it not?
Questions for you to answer (to keep it simple for you).
1. Would Jesus have killed the innocent Iraqi's to remove Saddam from power?
2. Would Jesus have ordered his followers (Christian's) to remove Saddam, knowing that innocents would be killed?
3. Would Jesus be pleased with money being taken away from the poor and given to the rich?
4. Would you please show me where Jesus said to bomb your enemies and take money from the poor?
Yes let's keep it simple:
If you want the government to fulfill the commands of Christ and provide for the poor and care for the ill, then you are not keeping church and state separate, are you?
I'd like to point out that you are ignorning my questions.
To answer your's.
I do want the government to provide for the poor and care for the ill, NOT because it would fulfill the commands of Christ, but because it's the compassionate, human thing to do. As far as providing for the poor, there are limitations, as far as caring for the ill, healthcare IS a basic human need/right.
So yes, you can care for the poor/ill and keep Church/State seperate.
Now, I would appreciate answers to my questions.
You specifically trashed Christians because you think their politics do not line up with New Testament teaching, specifically the commands of Christ.
Quote: So defend those republican positions/actions with Jesus' words.
Yet if a Christian were to propose a law based on Jesus' teaching, you would cry foul and cite separation of church and state. Do not deny it.
If you want the government to take the functions of the church (feeding the poor, caring for the ill) then you are going about the business of establishing religion, in violation of the First Amendment.
Perhaps you should instead focus on the Tenth Amendment which states that the authority granted to the federal government is to be limited to the very few and specific powers delineated in the Constitution. All else is reserved to the States and to the people.
Do the compassionate and human thing and help the poor and care for the ill. Don't assume that you need the government or the government's permission to do that.
If you want a Nanny State for your government, there's always Europe.
Look, I'm not going to have you completly turn my words around, shove in some new ones, and state that I'm making a point that I'm not making and then defend that point.
Everything you just posted is FALSE, I never said what you claim I am saying.
Is that what you have to do to be a good Christian, become an expert in misrepresenting/misreading text?
maporsche wrote:real life wrote:
I was trying to spare you some embarrassment, but here ya go.
1. Would Jesus have killed the innocent Iraqi's to remove Saddam from power?
Do you know what Jesus would have done? No you do not. This is a hypothetical question since Jesus was never in the army. However He did speak on several occasions with military personnel and we have no record that He advised them to leave the military.
Jesus did advise His disciples shortly before His death:
And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
2. Would Jesus have ordered his followers (Christian's) to remove Saddam, knowing that innocents would be killed?
You are repeating yourself.
Many more innocents were killed under Saddam's rule. Why do you turn a blind eye to this and pretend it wasn't happening? Why do you ignore the mass graves with hundreds of bodies?
3. Would Jesus be pleased with money being taken away from the poor and given to the rich?
Not sure what you mean by this. But a fair bet is that you are referring to lower taxes. IF this is your argument , apparently you regard the money that belongs to one person (the rich who earned it) as ACTUALLY rightfully belonging to another (the poor who did not earn it). This is called covetousness; and no I don't think Jesus would have endorsed it.
When a person is being taxed at X percentage, and the government lowers his tax rate-- he is able to keep more of HIS OWN money. He has not taken any money from a poor person.
4. Would you please show me where Jesus said to bomb your enemies and take money from the poor?
You are repeating yourself.
See 1, 2 and 3 above.
Thanks for the answers.
I do not turn a blind eye to Saddam's horrors, but I believe that your Christ WOULD have based on his quotes that I posted previously. I am merely trying to point out the hypocrisy your religion lends itself to.
How do you feel about these quotes and what do they mean to you?
"Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." MAT 5:44
"Love your neighbor as you love yourself." MARK 12:31
"Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you." LUKE 6:27
"Love one another, just as I love you." JOHN 15:12
Saddam was murdering his own people by the truckload and supporting terrorism.
If we were thinking only of ourselves, we could have just nuked the place and been done with it.
Instead , our military personnel have laid down their own lives to set 25 million Iraqis free from dictatorship and oppression and to protect ourselves and the world from terrorism.
Jesus said "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
maporsche wrote:mesquite wrote:
Now you have the best of both worlds. You can screw up big time and still have salvation, and you can still dip back into the old book to reinforce pet prejudices and bigotry.
Not to say the rest of your post wasn't good......but this comment is spectacular and 100% right on target.
I ask neologist, rexred, real life, and your ilk how you would respond directly to this quote?
What pet prejudices and bigotry do you believe I entertain?
responding to one more of real life's ludicrous inanities, maporsche wrote: ... Is that what you have to do to be a good Christian, become an expert in misrepresenting/misreading text?
Whether or not he has to be " ... an expert in misrepresenting/misreading text" its one thing he manages to do well - nearly without equal, I would venture to say, apart from a couple other co-proponents of his proposition in this discussion.
neologist wrote:maporsche wrote:mesquite wrote:
Now you have the best of both worlds. You can screw up big time and still have salvation, and you can still dip back into the old book to reinforce pet prejudices and bigotry.
Not to say the rest of your post wasn't good......but this comment is spectacular and 100% right on target.
I ask neologist, rexred, real life, and your ilk how you would respond directly to this quote?
What pet prejudices and bigotry do you believe I entertain?
I don't know you....I don't know many of your views on certain subjects. I do not have enough information about you to formulate a belief.
This is why I'm referring to Christianity in general.
real life wrote:maporsche wrote:real life wrote:
I was trying to spare you some embarrassment, but here ya go.
1. Would Jesus have killed the innocent Iraqi's to remove Saddam from power?
Do you know what Jesus would have done? No you do not. This is a hypothetical question since Jesus was never in the army. However He did speak on several occasions with military personnel and we have no record that He advised them to leave the military.
Jesus did advise His disciples shortly before His death:
And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
2. Would Jesus have ordered his followers (Christian's) to remove Saddam, knowing that innocents would be killed?
You are repeating yourself.
Many more innocents were killed under Saddam's rule. Why do you turn a blind eye to this and pretend it wasn't happening? Why do you ignore the mass graves with hundreds of bodies?
3. Would Jesus be pleased with money being taken away from the poor and given to the rich?
Not sure what you mean by this. But a fair bet is that you are referring to lower taxes. IF this is your argument , apparently you regard the money that belongs to one person (the rich who earned it) as ACTUALLY rightfully belonging to another (the poor who did not earn it). This is called covetousness; and no I don't think Jesus would have endorsed it.
When a person is being taxed at X percentage, and the government lowers his tax rate-- he is able to keep more of HIS OWN money. He has not taken any money from a poor person.
4. Would you please show me where Jesus said to bomb your enemies and take money from the poor?
You are repeating yourself.
See 1, 2 and 3 above.
Thanks for the answers.
I do not turn a blind eye to Saddam's horrors, but I believe that your Christ WOULD have based on his quotes that I posted previously. I am merely trying to point out the hypocrisy your religion lends itself to.
How do you feel about these quotes and what do they mean to you?
"Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." MAT 5:44
"Love your neighbor as you love yourself." MARK 12:31
"Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you." LUKE 6:27
"Love one another, just as I love you." JOHN 15:12
Saddam was murdering his own people by the truckload and supporting terrorism.
If we were thinking only of ourselves, we could have just nuked the place and been done with it.
Instead , our military personnel have laid down their own lives to set 25 million Iraqis free from dictatorship and oppression and to protect ourselves and the world from terrorism.
Jesus said "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
Real, that was beautiful... thx
maporsche wrote:neologist wrote:maporsche wrote:mesquite wrote:
Now you have the best of both worlds. You can screw up big time and still have salvation, and you can still dip back into the old book to reinforce pet prejudices and bigotry.
Not to say the rest of your post wasn't good......but this comment is spectacular and 100% right on target.
I ask neologist, rexred, real life, and your ilk how you would respond directly to this quote?
What pet prejudices and bigotry do you believe I entertain?
I don't know you....I don't know many of your views on certain subjects. I do not have enough information about you to formulate a belief.
This is why I'm referring to Christianity in general.
True for nominal christianity. Not the fault of God or the bible.
maporsche, Haven't you figured it out yet? Real life's name is the empitome of hypocrisy. He lives in a world that is devoid of reality. He lives in the netherworld of pandemonium where left is right and right is left. He has no clue or ability to answer direct questions. He's afraid of the truth, because his world will crumble in front of him if he admits what is so obvious. He's a sad person unable to get out of his cage. He has become a slave to the comic book called the bible. He reads and memorizes many of its verses, but understands nothing. He sees clarity in the contradicitons, errors and omissions. He has become psycotic like an alcoholic unable to sotp drinking. He likes the haziness of his drunkeness repeating bible verses to all who will listen. He doesn't know how to stop.
I just realized I've been absent for 15 pages. I hope I'm not repeating things already settled, but:
What is Abrahamic mythopaeia?
Why all this talk about heaven and immortality of the soul? Do you think I am just spilling vegetable soup when I point out that the soul does not survive death? I'll be happy to give the references again; but folks: when you're dead, you're dead.
There's more. But this should keep me going.
maporsche wrote:timberlandko wrote:responding to one more of real life's ludicrous inanities, maporsche wrote: ... Is that what you have to do to be a good Christian, become an expert in misrepresenting/misreading text?
Whether or not he has to be " ... an expert in misrepresenting/misreading text" its one thing he manages to do well - nearly without equal, I would venture to say, apart from a couple other co-proponents of his proposition in this discussion.
Agreed.
Whether or not he misreads or misrepresents text, as you claim, has absolutely no bearing on being a good Christian. And, if you have something to say about "other co-propoonents why not go ahead and name them. Neither of you take this seriously and seem to enjoy making fun at others people's expense.
Intrepid wrote:maporsche wrote:timberlandko wrote:responding to one more of real life's ludicrous inanities, maporsche wrote: ... Is that what you have to do to be a good Christian, become an expert in misrepresenting/misreading text?
Whether or not he has to be " ... an expert in misrepresenting/misreading text" its one thing he manages to do well - nearly without equal, I would venture to say, apart from a couple other co-proponents of his proposition in this discussion.
Agreed.
Whether or not he misreads or misrepresents text, as you claim, has absolutely no bearing on being a good Christian. And, if you have something to say about "other co-propoonents why not go ahead and name them. Neither of you take this seriously and seem to enjoy making fun at others people's expense.
Unfortunately I take this VERY seriously. Gandhi once said "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, Your Christians are so unlike your Christ". Christians have become so adept at misrepresenting/misreading the bible that Christ's intentions are no longer being followed. This doesn't concern me in the slightest, until someone tries to force Christ's beliefs upon me. Some of his beliefs/views are very noble and humane, and I would follow them. I am not anti-Christ, but I am anti-current-Christianity, which has little to do with Christ anymore.
During these "discussions" I have not seen anyone force Christ's believes on anyone. I have seen people try to explain some of it. Some well and some not so well. As for me, I will make my believes known, but I do not try to force them upon anybody. I would expect that the unbelievers would do the same. I would be curious as to your definition of a Christian. I have seen Christians referred to in many different ways on these threads. I have to agree that not every Christian is a Christian in the sense that Jesus tried to teach. There are many Christmas and Easter Christians and those who use Christianity only for their own agenda. Just as every (fill in the blank) is not representative of (fill in the blank). Some of us actually have a real and abiding faith and truly want to live a righteous and loving life. Some of us have strong opinions on things but we are not bible thumping egotists who are down on everybody who does not share our believes. More bibles have been worn out by thunmping than by reading.... that is not the purpose of the bible. I will admit, it is hard being a Christian when everybody wants to jump on every word and question every motive.
Let's see; not all christians who claim to be a christian is not a christian. Some on this forum claoim to be a christian. Hard to tell which ones are christians. Maybe intrepid can identify the christians for us. It's prolly like interpreting the bible; only the few are blessed to know it's true meaning.
CONTRADICTIONS ABOUT GOD
See also About God
There is only one God (NT passim; also Jer 10:6, many other
passages). There are other gods (Ps 82:1, 95:3, Jer 10:11,
Ex 20:3).
No man can see God and live (i.e., you might be able to see God,
but it would kill you: Ex 33:20). But God is invisible
(Job 23:8, John 1:18, 4:24, 5:37, 6:46 [ambiguous], 1 Tim
1:17, 6:16, Col 1:15, 1 John 4:12). But Moses and others
saw God (Gen 12:7, 17:1, Ex 3:6, 3:16, 12:8, 24:10-11, "face
to face, as a man speaketh to his friend" 33:11, 23, Isa
6:1, 5, Job 42:5, Acts 8:55-56). Jacob wrestled with God
and "saw him face to face" (Gen 32:30). God appeared to
Abraham, ate, washed (Gen 18). God appeared to Isaac (Gen
26:2) and to Solomon (1 Kings 3:5). "Seek God's face, he
will not hide it" (Ps 27:8-9, 24:6). God must have an "im-
age," because man was created in it (Gen 1:27, 9:6). Jesus
is the image of God (2 Cor 4:4).
God created everything by himself (Gen 2:2, Ps 89:11, Isa 40:28,
44:24, Acts 14:15, Heb 1:10, 3:4, many others). Jesus
helped (John 1:1-3, Eph 3:9, Col 1:16, Heb 1:2). Somebody
helped him with the creation of mankind ("Let us make
man" Gen 1:26).
Nothing is impossible for God (Luke 1:37, Mark 10:27). But it is
impossible for God to lie (Heb 6:18, Tit 1:2).
God does not lie (Ex 34:6, Num 23:19, Prov 12:22, 1 Sam 15:29,
Tit 1:2). Lying is an abomination (Prov 12:22). But he
lied to Adam, telling him that he would die if he ate the
fruit (Gen 3:4-5); he sent a lying spirit to deceive Ahab (1
Kings 22:19-23, 2 Chron 18:22). If a prophet is deceived it
is because God has deceived him, and God will destroy the
prophet (Jer 4:10, 20:7, Ezek 14:9). God deludes people
into believing falsehoods, so that he can condemn them (2
Thess 2:11-12).
Who is God's "firstborn"? Israel (Ex 4:22). David (Ps 89:27).
Jesus (Heb 1:4, 3:3, Col 1:18).
God does not repent (Num 23:19, 1 Sam 15:29, Num 23:19, Mal 3:6,
Ezek 24:14, James 1:17). But the Lord repented several
times (Gen 6:6, Ex 32:14, Judg 2:18, 1 Sam 2:30-31, 15:11,
35, 2 Kings 20:1-6, Ps 106:45, Jonah 3:10, 4:2).
God hates discord or confusion (Prov 6:16-19, 1 Cor 4:33. But
God sometimes sows discord and confusion (Gen 11:7-9).
God keeps his covenants (Deut 7:9-12). But he broke his promise
to Israel (Num 14:30).
God reveals his works to his prophets (Amos 3:7). But not always
(2 Kings 4:27).
God knows everything, i.e., he is "omniscient" (Ps 139:1-6, Prov
15:3, 5:21, Job 26:6, 34:21, Isa 44:7, Jer 16:17, 23:24,
Ezek 11:5, Matt 12:25, John 2:24, Rom 1:20, Heb 4:13). But
God didn't know where Adam is (Gen 3:8-9), or Abel (Gen
4:9). God didn't know whether Abraham would obey his
command to kill Isaac (Gen 22:12). God didn't know which
houses in Egypt contain Israelites; he needed to see blood
on the doorpost (Ex 12:13). God had to test Israel for 40
years to find out if they would keep his commandments;
apparently he didn't know (Deut 8:2). God is forgetful and
must be reminded of his promises, e.g. of his promise to
Noah (Gen 9:15-16). Samuel had to tell God what the people
said (1 Sam 8:21).
God is omnipotent (Gen 17:1, 35:11, Luke 1:37). Anything is
possible with God (Matt 17:20, 19:26, Mark 9:23, 10:27, Luke
17:6, 18:27). But he could not help Judah defeat an enemy
that had iron chariots (Judg 1:19). Jesus could not do
mighty works because of others' unbelief (Matt 13:58, Mark
6:5).
Does God tempt? James 1:13 says no. But Gen 22:1, Matt 6:13,
Deut 4:34, 8:2, Judg 2:22 (and others) say yes. Temptation
is joy (James 1:2). God controls the extent of our tempta-
tions (1 Cor 10:13, 2 Pet 2:9, Rev 3:10).
Is evil from God? No (Deut 32:4, Ps 19:7-8, 145:9, Mic 7:2,
James 1:13). Yes (Isa 45:7, Jer 18:11, Lam 3:38, Ezek
20:25, Amos 3:6).
God is love and wants everyone to be saved (2 Cor 13:11, 14, 1
John 4:8, 16, 2 Pet 3:9, 1 Tim 2:3-4 and many others). He
takes no pleasure in the punishment of the wicked (Ezek
18:23, 32). But he rejoices in the destruction of sinners
(Deut 28:63, Prov 1:26). He creates some people dumb, deaf,
blind (Ex 4:11). He creates others wicked (Prov 16:4). He
hides the truth (Isa 6:9-10, Matt 11:25, Mark 4:11-12, 2
Thess 2:11-12). He punishes people for others' sins (see
"Punishment"). He saves whom he pleases (Rom 8:28-30,
15:18). Anyone who has never heard of Jesus will go to hell
(John 3:18).
God's anger: It does not last forever (Ps 30:5, 103:9, Jer 3:12,
Micah 7:18). But God's punishment is eternal (Jer 17:4,
Matt 25:46).
Where is God? He dwells in the temple at Jerusalem (1 Kings
8:12-13, Acts 7:47). He does not dwell in temples (Acts
17:24). He dwells between the cherubim on the Ark (Ps 80:1,
Ex 25:22, Num 7:89, 1 Sam 4:4, 2 Sam 6:2, 2 Kings 19:15, Isa
37:16). He dwells in heaven (Ps 14:2, 33:13-14, Eccl 5:2, 2
Chron 6:21, 30). He dwells high above the earth (Ps 97:9).
He dwells in thick darkness (1 Kings 8:12, 2 Chron 6:1, Ps
18:11, 97:2). He dwells in unapproachable light (1 Tim
6:16, 1 John 1:5, 7). He is far off (Ps 10:1). He is not
far off (Ps 145:18, Jer 23:23, Acts 17:27). He dwells in
Zion (Ps 9:11). He sits on a throne (Isa 6:1). But nothing
can contain him (1 Kings 8:27, 2 Chr 6:18). He is ev-
erywhere (Deut 4:39, Jer 16:17, 23:24, 1 Kings 8:27, Ps
139:7-11, Prov 15:3, Heb 4:13). But he is only in one place
at a time (Gen 3:8, he walked in the Garden; Gen 4:16, Cain
left his presence; Gen 11:5, he came down to see the Tower;
Gen 18:20-21, 33, he "went his way;" Gen 46:4, Ex 3:4, "Here
I am;" Ex 12:5, 17:6, 10:21, 24:1-2, 25:22, 29:42, 45, 46,
33:3, 14-15, 34:34, Ps 14:2, Num 23:15, Job 1:12, Jonah
1:3). Sometimes he goes from one place to another riding a
cherub (Ps 18:10, 2 Sam 22:11).
