Blickers
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2016 07:39 pm
@engineer,
Quote engineer:
Quote:
The other possibility is that the Senate will hold on until the election. If a Democrat is elected, they will act on Obama's nomination and we'll have someone before the end of November.


Okay, but now here's a variation. Obama nominates someone who leans left,but not far left. If the Republican Senate doesn't confirm, then they run the risk of having a more left leaning justice appointed by the Democratic president when they take office. They also get the chance to have a conservative appointed if the Republicans win. Suddenly, voting for the relatively moderate liberal seems like not such a bad thing.
snood
 
  5  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2016 07:58 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:

Quote engineer:
Quote:
The other possibility is that the Senate will hold on until the election. If a Democrat is elected, they will act on Obama's nomination and we'll have someone before the end of November.


Okay, but now here's a variation. Obama nominates someone who leans left,but not far left. If the Republican Senate doesn't confirm, then they run the risk of having a more left leaning justice appointed by the Democratic president when they take office. They also get the chance to have a conservative appointed if the Republicans win. Suddenly, voting for the relatively moderate liberal seems like not such a bad thing.


I think you guys might be underestimating the depth of the mindless resolve with which these Republicans have been resisting anything Obama conceives.
I think that same beady eyed tenacity will be in effect - only multiplied exponentially by the magnitude of this particular appointee. You guys are acting like there is some measure of a reasonableness or competence or moderation in the coming nominee that could sway or shame the Republicans. I really think you underestimate their stupid determination.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2016 08:31 pm
@snood,
Can't understand why people can't see the obstruction of the republicans. Amazing times in politics.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2016 08:38 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I don't think it's because anyone doesn't see it. There just aren't enough progressives in power to stop them and enough journalists with courage to call them on it. But everyone sees what they've been doing for the whole of Obama's presidency. Some on the right won't admit it, and they are the most odious to me. They try to act like all the stupid, short-sighted obstruction of Obama has something to do with Obama's 'policies' or his 'lawlessness'.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2016 08:40 pm
@snood,
Many even blame Obama for the bad economy, even if fact says otherwise. It's a wonder the US economy is holding its own when the world economy is stagnant or in the negative.
snood
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2016 08:43 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It's odd to me that you can see something like the unfairness in the way the right treats Obama, but you say that you don't understand how the system is rigged in favor of the rich. So you really believe we live in a meritocracy - where people get what they work hard for, and those who don't have its because they haven't worked hard enough?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2016 08:49 pm
@snood,
The system isn't "rigged for the rich." Have you looked at the income tax tables?
The "rich" didn't suppress my ability to accumulate wealth. Those who claim such didn't study hard or work hard. All my siblings and I came from a very modest background, because our mother raised us. My older brother became an Attorney, my younger brother an Ophthalmologist, and my sister an RN. How did the rich suppress us? That's an excuse many poor people use, but that's not fact. Many poor people have accumulated much wealth.
Blickers
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2016 08:50 pm
@snood,
Quote snood:
Quote:
I think you guys might be underestimating the depth of the mindless resolve with which these Republicans have been resisting anything Obama conceives.
I think that same beady eyed tenacity will be in effect - only multiplied exponentially by the magnitude of this particular appointee. You guys are acting like there is some measure of a reasonableness or competence or moderation in the coming nominee that could sway or shame the Republicans. I really think you underestimate their stupid determination.

Possibly. I was thinking of the Republican Senate when they confirmed Stephen Breyer who was nominated by Clinton. Breyer was somewhat liberal, but it was discovered that he was on a list of 20 names that Bush I's aides put together for Bush I to choose from when he had to pick a Supreme Court justice a few years previous. I was listening to Rush Limbaugh on the radio one day during the confirmation process and Limbaugh was saying that they should confirm Breyer because he was about the least left nominee that they were going to get out of Clinton.

I realize the Republican Party has gotten even more polarizing since then, but I thought there was a chance that it might work that way, since if Hillary or Bernie get elected, they'll choose someone who is a lot farther left.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2016 08:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
So, the United States is a meritocracy, where you are only limited by your own efforts?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2016 08:53 pm
@snood,
Mostly. http://topyaps.com/the-top-10-rich-people-who-were-once-poor
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  4  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2016 08:55 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:

Possibly. I was thinking of the Republican Senate when they confirmed Stephen Breyer who was nominated by Clinton. Breyer was somewhat liberal, but it was discovered that he was on a list of 20 names that Bush I's aides put together for Bush I to choose from when he had to pick a Supreme Court justice a few years previous. I was listening to Rush Limbaugh on the radio one day during the confirmation process and Limbaugh was saying that they should confirm Breyer because he was about the least left nominee that they were going to get out of Clinton.

I realize the Republican Party has gotten even more polarizing since then, but I thought there was a chance that it might work that way, since if Hillary or Bernie get elected, they'll choose someone who is a lot farther left.


Got it. I think Obama is the only president that the opposition has gone on record saying that they will resist anything that could be construed as a success for him, and that their main job as members of congress would be to ensure he is a one term president. I just think the tenor and intensity of obstruction is unprecedented. I could be wrong, but it would have to be pointed out to me.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2016 09:08 pm
@snood,
You're not wrong. It's common knowledge, because McConnell said it. The gridlock in congress is another one of their child's play that hurts all Americans.

I'm an Independent, but will never again vote for a republican.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2016 09:39 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I hope more voters including republicans see the obstructionist actions of McConnell and the republicans, and vote them all out.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/scalia-senate-schumer-warren-mcconnell-219283
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2016 11:17 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
. Many poor people have accumulated much wealth.


And lost it at a hospital, to which I can attest.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 08:39 am
Back to the SCOTUS conflagration:

I really like the approach that Obama and the White House are taking toward this latest obstructionist crap the Right is trying. They're basically saying "Hey, they've had to be harshly introduced to reality before; they're going to have to face the fact that Obama is making a nomination."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/battle-over-scalias-replacement-already-spilling-into-senate-races/2016/02/15/a36c9972-d414-11e5-be55-2cc3c1e4b76b_story.html

One consideration that may force Republicans to recalibrate their strategy is the prospect of political damage to some of the embattled Senate incumbents up for reelection this fall.

Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 10:55 am
@snood,
snood wrote:
I think you guys might be underestimating the depth of the mindless resolve with which these Republicans have been resisting anything Obama conceives.
I think that same beady eyed tenacity will be in effect - only multiplied exponentially by the magnitude of this particular appointee. You guys are acting like there is some measure of a reasonableness or competence or moderation in the coming nominee that could sway or shame the Republicans. I really think you underestimate their stupid determination.


Republicans are not one monolithic entity, there are some who will face close elections and who will not be blindly happy about taking up the Republican obstructionism at the costs of their own jobs.

I do not know how much it will cost them but it can be made to hurt, and they aren't stupid to the point of being immune to pain.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 10:58 am
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

snood wrote:
I think you guys might be underestimating the depth of the mindless resolve with which these Republicans have been resisting anything Obama conceives.
I think that same beady eyed tenacity will be in effect - only multiplied exponentially by the magnitude of this particular appointee. You guys are acting like there is some measure of a reasonableness or competence or moderation in the coming nominee that could sway or shame the Republicans. I really think you underestimate their stupid determination.


Republicans are not one monolithic entity, there are some who will face close elections and who will not be blindly happy about taking up the Republican obstructionism at the costs of their own jobs.

I do not know how much it will cost them but it can be made to hurt, and they aren't stupid to the point of being immune to pain.

Yeah, I just addressed that in the post above yours...

Quote:
One consideration that may force Republicans to recalibrate their strategy is the prospect of political damage to some of the embattled Senate incumbents up for reelection this fall.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 11:13 am
@snood,
Ah yes, hadn't gotten there in the thread yet. Still I think Democrats could manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory on this too. I really don't know how it will play out, the first indication will be who is nominated.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 11:20 am
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

Republicans are not one monolithic entity, there are some who will face close elections and who will not be blindly happy about taking up the Republican obstructionism at the costs of their own jobs.

I used to believe this but I don't think the data backs it up. It really is hard to find representatives who lost their jobs for calling for a government shutdown instead of passing a budget. You would have thought that any elected official who called for the US to default on its debt would be gone the next election cycle, but that hasn't happened either. What has happened several times is the Republicans who make some good faith concessions to the other side (or even suggest they are willing to do so) are challenged by the right in their own party and are defeated in the primary.

I think there are few old style Republicans in the Senate who will see doing their duty as more important than toeing the line (think McCain, Graham) but they aren't in the leadership and they aren't numerous enough to carry a nomination through.
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 11:25 am
@engineer,
I too have been surprised that the obstructionism hasn't cost them more. But I do not think that will always be that way and that there can be a breaking point at which it hurts them. But I'm speculating and really don't have a good guess on which way this will go.
0 Replies
 
 

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