7
   

Hillary Clinton sells her soul on Single Payer Healthcare

 
 
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2016 04:56 am
It's official. Hillary Clinton is now scared of Bernie Sanders. And she is now lashing out in any way possible...

Quote:
[Bernie's] plan would take Medicare and Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program and the Affordable Care Act health-care insurance and private employer health insurance and he would take that all together and send health insurance to the states, turning over your and my health insurance to governors...


First of all, this is a lie (see http://theweek.com/articles/598798/hillary-clintons-dirty-attack-bernie-sanders or any other progressive analysis for explanations)... and a rather nasty one at that.

But what the heck? Many people will claim that ObamaCare is better than what we had before, especially because it in reducing the number of uninsured Americans, but there is no one with any knowledge of the bill that will say that ObamaCare isn't causing problems. It was a compromise, it is in fact costing some people more and shrinking the number of health care providers.

Hillary knows in her heart that a single payer system is the best way to fix these problems while providing high quality, affordable health care to all Americans. She has been saying as much since the 1990s.

And yet, here she is attacking a single payer plan in order to try to outflank a surging Sanders in Iowa.

It is time to write another check for Bernie.
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2016 05:14 am
@maxdancona,
I read that she has her daughter on the speech circuit repeating these same lies about Bernie's healthcare policy.

:grin: another donation is on the way!
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2016 05:50 am
Thankfully, the people of Iowa aren't buying the last minute smear campaign!!

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/01/12/bernie-sanders-widens-lead-over-hillary-clinton-in-new-hampshire-poll-finds/?_r=1

I'm almost afraid to believe it. I hope Sanders will have someone watching the polling machines.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2016 06:10 am
@Lash,
Winning Iowa would be big!
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2016 08:22 am
Hillary is playing politics and it is really nothing too new. On the other hand, if Sanders wants to implement his plan he has in the past advocated for, according to your own source, is risky and wasteful.

Quote:
We reached out to both campaigns, but only the Sanders campaign responded. Warren Gunnels, policy director for the campaign, compared the bill to ObamaCare's structure for insurance exchanges, where each state may set up its own exchange calibrated to its own needs, but if they'd rather not, they will default to the federal exchange. If conservative states refuse to set up a single-payer plan to the government's liking, then their "citizens would receive coverage from the feds," he told me.

Now, that's still sort of a weird way to set up a single-payer system. Sanders routinely describes his ideal plan as "Medicare for all," and that program is completely under federal control. Setting up 50 smaller single-payer systems (or however many states choose to participate) would surely create much duplication of administration structure and hence waste. Worse, it provides a potential crack in which conservative hacks on the Supreme Court might rewrite the program to be optional — just like they did with ObamaCare and the Medicaid expansion. Medicare is already firmly established, so it's perhaps wiser to implement single-payer on a similar foundation.


Hillary has responded to other news sources.

Hillary Clinton Defends Chelsea Clinton’s Attacks Against Bernie Sanders

Quote:
Hillary Clinton today defended her daughter’s attacks against her Democratic challenger Bernie Sanders’ single-payer health care plan, despite criticism the remark was inaccurate.

“You know, I adore my daughter and I know what she was saying,” Clinton told “Good Morning America” about Chelsea Clinton. “Because if you look at Senator Sanders’ proposals going back nine times in the Congress, that’s exactly what he’s proposed. To take everything we currently know as health care, Medicare, Medicaid, the CHIP Program, private insurance, now of the Affordable Care Act, and roll it together.”
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2016 12:04 pm
@revelette2,
There are two separate issues here Revelette.

1) This political attack on Sanders (which used her daughter as surrogate) was based on a lie.

2) The US needs to move to single payer healthcare, and Hillary herself understands this... and yet she is now campaigning against it for political expediency.

Hillary Clinton is supporting bad policy for political expediency. This is nothing new.

Hillary was against same sex marriage (until recently) for political expediency. She supported the war for political expediency. Bill Clinton's administration gutted welfare for political expediency. The disastrous "Don't ask Don't tell" was for political expediency. The "law -and -order" policy that increased our crazy incarceration rate was for political expediency.

Anyone who is paying attention to health care policy knows that Obamacare is not sustainable. It is good that more Americans are covered, but it is also undeniable that costs are going up, and health care providers are going out of business.

Hillary should be honest about this and promote real solutions rather than making false political attacks on the one person in this race who is telling the truth.


maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2016 12:18 pm
@revelette2,
I am curious Revelette about your opinions on the matter.

Do you agree that moving to a single payer health care system is the best way forward for the United States?
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2016 03:27 pm
@maxdancona,
Hillary actually didn't lie and she does not support Sanders idea of separate different health care systems set up in each state, she also does not support getting rid of Medicare and neither do I.

The ACA does need some improvement, but I agree with Hillary and think we should work with what we got rather than trying reinvent the whole wheel. I think eventually, we will have universal health care and that is what I support but it is not what Sander's advocates.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2016 03:45 pm
@revelette2,
Hillary wrote:
[Bernie Sander's] plan would take Medicare and Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program [CHIP] and the Affordable Care Act health-care insurance and private employer health insurance and he would take that all together and send health insurance to the states, turning over your and my health insurance to governors,


This is a gross distortion at best.

Chelsea Clinton speaking as Hillary Surrogate wrote:
Sen. Sanders wants to dismantle Obamacare, dismantle the CHIP program, dismantle Medicare, and dismantle private insurance. I worry if we give Republicans Democratic permission to do that, we'll go back to an era—before we had the Affordable Care Act—that would strip millions and millions and millions of people off their health insurance


This is an outright lie (which the Hillary Clinton campaign is not retracting).

revelette wrote:
she also does not support getting rid of Medicare and neither do I.


Can you please show me where Bernie Sanders has ever supported "getting rid of Medicare"?

This is a dishonest talking point.





maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2016 05:46 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
The ACA does need some improvement, but I agree with Hillary and think we should work with what we got rather than trying reinvent the whole wheel. I think eventually, we will have universal health care and that is what I support but it is not what Sander's advocates.


The issue is whether the US should move to a single payer system. Bernie Sanders says yes, and is supporting a system similar to Canada (although he hasn't quite published all the details). Yes, this would mean largely replacing the ACA.

Hillary Clinton seems to be saying no single payer system. There is a legitimate topic of debate here. In my opinion it is impossible "universal health care" that is financially stable that isn't a single payer system. All developed countries have single payer except for the US, and the ACA, so far, has not proven to be a successful compromise.

I strongly agree with Sanders... and it will be interesting to see if this issue pulls more moderate progressive voters into the Sanders camp. I suspect it may (and the progressive media are certainly supporting Sanders on this issue).

I hope there is an honest debate on this issue. What Hillary Clinton and her surrogates are doing right now is far from honest.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2016 06:27 pm
I don't have a total formed health care opinion as yet, it's a mix of observations - not only re the U.S. I was impressed by a species of health care where Robert lived then, and I'd like that available, no link right now but we talked about it slightly, recently. I'm single payer oriented but I'm not sure what that means at this point, will read what others clue me in on.

I'm a mix in that I like well done science and well done patient care, have seen some of it, and seen/read mess ups via the system.

The inequality thing is odd, in that I've worked in clinics that treat equally, no kidding. I also saw, more than once, how my ophthalmologist treated guys in the clinic in prison garb as he treated the rest of us (well), and seen/read messes no matter who you are... but inequality seems to rule at least in part, re access.

It may or may not have to do with life worthiness, and people deciding on that can be way out from lunch.


0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2016 10:59 pm
@maxdancona,
He wants to put all the programs into one, "Medicare for all" which does have the end result of getting rid of Medicare and all the rest of the programs. But it is the way he wants to do it which would cause problems by setting it up in each state which would give control to governors which would make it easier for the Supreme Court to give the state the option to opt out of it all together like they did with Obamcare. We should simply improve on what we got.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2016 11:43 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
All developed countries have single payer except for the US, and the ACA, so far, has not proven to be a successful compromise.

This is incorrect. Germany and the UK each have a different sort of health care system, and there are a number of countries that copy each.

The Obamacare marketplaces could be considered a for-profit version of the German system.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2016 12:55 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Do you agree that moving to a single payer health care system is the best way forward for the United States?

If we all end up on Medicare, does that mean we all need to purchase a Medigap policy? Out of our own pockets?

Part D for prescription drugs?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2016 05:14 am
@revelette2,
In my opinion "what we got" is fatally flawed. The ACA was a step in the right direction as far as getting more people insured, but the basic economic premise of the ACA doesn't work (and can't work).

Under the ACA the motive of the companies at the core of our health care system is profit, not health. The profit-motivated companies have far too much power. Under the ACA health care institutions that are good for people and good for overall health are going out of business because they aren't profitable and no one with money has any incentive to keep this important work going on.

It is not just that the ACA needs to be fixed. The ACA was created with mutual conflicting goals -- profits for private healthcare and insurance companies, and affordable care. The economic interests are always too strong, and profits will always work out.

I will be interested to hear what Hillary Clinton has to say about "fixing" the ACA. In the past she said that a single payer system was the right direction from the country. She even said that she was sure we were headed in that direction.

On the bright side for Hillary, with her healthcare policy she does have the strong support of the private insurance companies.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2016 05:52 am
Obama care will eventually be more harmful than beneficial in its present state, in my view. We have to cut out the insurance companies.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  4  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2016 07:33 am
I agree the current health care policy in place needs a lot fixing, what I don't agree with is the last known plan Sanders endorsed which involved letting the States have control of it. That is the way Obamacare started out then the Supreme Court gave them the option of opting out.

Quote:
States Opting Out of Medicaid Expansion

The law previously required states to expand coverage to everyone making less than 138% of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) or lose federal funding to Medicaid. However, that provision was changed during a supreme court ruling on ObamaCare.

States can now opt-out of Medicaid Expansion, leaving millions of poor working families in the “Medicaid coverage gap” between those who qualify for Medicaid (as low as 50% FPL in some states) and those who qualify for marketplace subsides (between 100% – 400% FPL).

States opting out of the expansion of Medicaid under ObamaCare is projected both to drive up insurance costs and to save the States relatively small amounts (with some, like Minnesota, showing up to a billion in new revenue under the program).


source

You guys act as if because Sanders proposes it, it is automatically going to go into law just like he wants it to without no changes when such is the not case at all. . The healthcare we currently have of which you guys are complaining so about came to be gutted precisely because of the resistance and subsequent court actions and input from those opposing government run health care. For that reason I say we should work with what we have to make small changes a little at a time. If we start from scratch, who knows what we will end up with. You got to deal with reality of today's political climate, I think many Sander's supporters do not. After watching Obama try to put his policies he campaigned into practice should have taught us all better.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2016 05:41 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Under the ACA health care institutions that are good for people and good for overall health are going out of business because they aren't profitable and no one with money has any incentive to keep this important work going on.

The not-for-profit co-ops under the ACA can be divided into two broad classes.

Some of them expected to receive federal subsidies (which had been promised to them), and set their insurance rates lower than they otherwise might have.

Others figured that they better not rely on a subsidy that might not come, and charged higher rates so they would stay solvent even if they didn't get their promised subsidy.

Republican Congressmen succeeded in eliminating the subsidies. The co-ops that were counting on those subsidies to balance their budget all went bankrupt.

The not-for-profit co-ops that charged higher rates so they would not have to count on the subsidies are all still in business.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  4  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2016 06:10 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Do you agree that moving to a single payer health care system is the best way forward for the United States?

I'm not Revelette, but I do have an answer to your question. In my opinion, the best way forward is to supplement Obamacare with a public option. Policyholders can then discover by experiment whether they are better off taking or rejecting the public option over the already-existing Obamacare part. IF policyholders discover that the Medicare-for-all option reliably works better, and IF they opt out the Obamacare-part of the system as a result, and IF the overall system then morphs into the shape Bernie Sanders wants in the first place, I have no problem with that. But I prefer running the experiment first. That's what Jon Edwards and Hillary Clinton proposed in their 2008 primary campaigns.

I am against trying to replace Obamacare with Medicare for all, rather than augmenting it with a public option for the individual to choose. The reason is that the lion's share of working-age Americans like the insurance coverage they are currently getting through their own or their spouses' employers. They won't willingly trade it in for a new system they don't know. Even if Medicare for all is the better system, I believe that introducing it by fiat will fail politically.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2016 06:19 pm
@Thomas,
Let's see if Hillary Clinton will support a public option. Given the amount of money that she has received from the insurance industry, I would be very impressed with her if she does so.

Bernie Sanders can fight for a single payer system, and then fall back on the public option as a backup plan. I don't believe that Hillary Clinton will do anything that threatens the profitability of the health care corporations that back her campaign.




 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
GAFFNEY: Whose side is Obama on? - Discussion by gungasnake
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Hillary Clinton sells her soul on Single Payer Healthcare
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.08 seconds on 10/19/2019 at 08:51:06