DNA, Where did the code come from?

Ill go many steps further. e can think and Experiment with these hypotheses and, even if we DISCOVER that one megamolecule begins respiration and manages to engage in taking nd processing "food" it still is only a hypothesis conformed that life COULD have begun that way with that series of reactions. Doesnt mean it DID.

I think that, when we finally reach out in space and see what kind of basis that their organisms take, will we better be able to opine about the origins of life in space and on earth.

Itd be neat if life on some Andromedan planet would be Si based.

Ive got enough on my plate to work with the facts of evolution.

One more point on the 'random' thing.

Keep in mind that the DNA code is NOT the code for the final organism. The organism is a complex system of other mechanisms (proteins). That means the design of the proteins (which can be pretty complex all by themselves) had to exist first. THEN a symbolic language of how to describe all those proteins had to come about along with a manufacturing process to build them (and they ARE built, one amino acid at a time). The material to build these complex protein machines is not IN the DNA, only DECSRIBED by the DNA.

You can almost wrap your head around a chance happening of a single layer of code but an accidental code describing another accidental code? Not happening by accident.

This glosses over many other layers of abstraction before you get to the first self reproducing cell.

BTW, that number I gave in the single layer code of DNA ( 2.3 x 10^500) represents a number higher than ALL THE ATOMS IN THE UNIVERSE.

THAT takes real faith to believe in those kind of odds.

This is the flaw in your argument. It is not true at all. You are also using the word "design" inappropriately.

It doesn't take that much faith if one realizes the evolution of homo sapiens.

Compounds? Like H2O, ya mean?

I would like to turn this around. What do you say Farmerman?

I would like to hear Layman and Leadfoot explain how this alleged information got into the DNA?

Where did this "symbolic information" come from?

Please Layman, explain how you think it happened?

I don't know. To my knowledge, nobody knows.

So why are we having this discussion then?

but you do get caves, sinkholes, pahoehoe tunnels, salt diaprs and hollow concretions where organisms can live. Life didnt start with "New York City" > It probably started with a bag of slop that, through time, could differentiate its slop layers by hydration/oxidation/gravity/density separation /pH-Eh/Zeta potential/Adsorption-Desorption and Henry's law separations/chirality , and an entire group of other fancier named kinetic functions that force simple and complex compounds to go one way or another and no god need be invoked .
Was life that simple?? Opinions vary and I know that the IDers/Creationists wont ever be convinced about whats lacking in their opinions.

SO far though, those who postulate a guy in the sky hypothesis, dont seem to have amassed any real evidence. They merely try to assert that huge irreconcilablle arguments and disagreements exist in the sciences so that science MUST be wrong. (SCience dudes love a good argument but none of what they tiff about leads to an ID /Creationist default in scope ,and usually their arguements are really NOT very earth shaking except whenever they introduce a whole nother model that explains a phenomenon even better).

FOR EXAMPLE:
Ive lived through the age of the maturing of Continental Drift and how it went from being a joke that smacked GOD in the face, to a FACT of daily use by the applied scientists (like me) in the oil exploration industry that, because of the Continental Drift findings, has gone from a "wildcat" technology to a solid exploration science with a about an 80% accuracy track record.

(Ive excluded the shale gas industry because we knew that the shale rocks had gas, just that it was considered unrecoverable in the earlier years)

Just as we don't have to know the builder of many archeological structures and artifacts to know that they were designed by intelligent beings, the same is true of the DNA code.

Rocks don't pile themselves up into walls, fire pits, stone hinge, etc, and amino acids don't hook themselves together in very specific order to create lifeforms. Even in millions of years. A stone fire pit hasn't built itself in the history of earth, why is it easier to believe a lifeform did?

By George, you do get it.

Youre laughing at Sets discussions on clay chem show that you rather would like to piss away at science rather than understand it.
Several of the chemical experiments of making a proto-life molecule occur on these derived clays that come out of volcanic rocks nd metamorphic rocks in both sea waters and fresh waters and brackish waters. EACH of the clays have surface chemistry abilities to atract AND ASSEMBLE other chemical molecules based upon the clays own platy structure (saponite:Illite/Illite:Monmorillonite/beidellite:illite)
Work is going on by several organizations to understand what directions these surface reactions could go and could molecules defined as "living" be produced?
I take it by your derision that you would SHUT DOWN this research?

Its always good to have such strong beliefs that you are correct in yours. I think Id rather wait to see what some of these guys can come up with rather than trying to duke it out on some chat line.

You take it wrong, Farmer, and I have no idea how you could come to that conclusion in the first place.

Farmer (Max too) Do you think it's possible that there is intelligent life in the universe other than us?

If so, do you think it's possible that some of this life could be MORE intelligent than us?

Let's not forget this fine word:

The fact that intelligent life does exist and (apparently) arose from non living matter/energy is in itself worthy of reflection.

Yeah, Neo, that's a great word, but I had already forgot it. I'll probably never work it into a sentence of mine unless I make a conscious effort to. But seein as how I just seen it for the first time a few months back, and seein as how I aint in the habit of usin it, and seein as how habits are hard to break, well....I'm sure ya catch my drift, somehow, eh?

Assuming the intelligent life had a longer evolutionary period, it's more than possible.

Just a fun word I had never heard until a few months back myself.
So I have to keep reminding, lest it fall out of the dictionary.

Al, on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being something like "merely an extremely remote possibility, but not at all likely" and 10 being something like "so likely that it's almost a 100% "chance" of it existing"--where would you put yourself on those two questions?

Say 5 is "as likely as not" (50/50 chance)