17
   

DNA, Where did the code come from?

 
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 02:16 am
@layman,
Deliberately transmitted, eh?
Couldn't leave well enough alone, eh?

I tellya, layman. Everybody would be a whole lot better off if they would run their crazy ideas past you'n me before just dumpin' them sperms irresponsibly, ya know?


layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 02:21 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
You should read about natural selection.


Yeah, Max? And what would you recommend that he read, eh?

Any neo-darwinist will tell you that their theory says NOTHING about how life originated. It just assumes that as a starting point, and makes no attempt to explain it.

These days many people seem to think that just throwing out the phrase "natural selection" somehow, magically, explains anything and everything. It's omnipotent, and works in mysterious ways. Kinda like God, ya know?
layman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 02:27 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Deliberately transmitted, eh?
Couldn't leave well enough alone, eh?

I tellya, layman. Everybody would be a whole lot better off if they would run their crazy ideas past you'n me before just dumpin' them sperms irresponsibly, ya know?


Well, if it aint "directed," then it's just plain old panspermia, eh?

Quote:
The Panspermia hypothesis suggests that the seeds of life are common in the universe and can be spread between worlds. This idea originated with the Greek philosopher Anaxagoras, and was later promoted by the Swedish physicist Svante Arrhenius and the British astronomer Fred Hoyle.


Now, as much as I like the idea of one big cock in the sky, blastin sperm in all directions, I gotta admit things don't generally work that way. It's usually directed at a HOT BABE, know what I'm sayin?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 02:40 am
Jeebus . . . Jeebus done it all . . . it's in the good book. I cain't read it 'cause i'm lilitering. But my nephew's boy, who reads and types for me on the pomcuter and reads the good book to me, he 'splained it all.

It was Jeebus.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 02:50 am
Finally! An explanation that says it all.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 03:00 am
Says here, at this here "All About Science" website, if ya click on abiogenesis:

Quote:
Even though Darwin himself focused on the origin of species [comment: species, not life itself], some scientists have tried to apply the concept of evolution [comment: nothing mentioned in this article has anything to do with "evolution" insofar as I can tell] to the first life to form the concept of abiogenesis.

In 1953, Stanley Miller and Harold Urey tested Oparin’s hypothesis by conducting an experiment that attempted to simulate the atmospheric conditions of primitive earth....Unfortunately Miller’s attempt to demonstrate the possibility of abiogenesis (that life can come from non-life) did not honestly simulate conditions on the primordial earth...But let us suppose that Miller’s experiment faithfully recreated conditions on the early earth, would the experiment be validated?

A further major difficulty is that such experiments cannot produce the right kinds of amino acids.... It would still remain inexplicable how the L-form amino acids became correctly ordered with the proper links (peptide bonds) to form proteins. The odds would still be stacked highly against obtaining even a single protein from a primordial soup made up of exclusively L-form amino acids.

But let us suppose that not only was a naturalistic mechanism discovered which could segregate the left-handed forms needed for life, but also a soup was discovered which possessed a mystical capacity to form proteins. To form a living cell requires hundreds of specialized proteins that need to be precisely coordinated. We would also need to produce DNA, RNA, a cell membrane, and a host of other chemical compounds -- not to mention arranging them into their correct locations to perform their respective functions....

Abiogenesis – Conclusion
Clearly to get from the Miller-Urey experiment to a living cell by unguided materialistic processes requires that improbabilities be stacked upon improbabilities. For this reason, Dean Kenyon rightly concludes: “It is an enormous problem, how you could get together in one tiny, sub-microscopic volume of the primitive ocean all of the hundreds of different molecular components you would need in order for a self-replicating cycle to be established.”


http://www.allaboutscience.org/abiogenesis.htm

Don't tell Max, eh? I don't think it's right to criticize religious beliefs like his, ya know?
layman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 03:29 am
For years I've had me a pet rock. I talk to it a lot, ya know? For many years, it just set there, never moved, and then, one day, it just got smart! It started talkin back to me, runnin errands for me, like getting another beer from the fridge, and **** like that, eh?

I wondered: How could that happen? How could a dumbass rock just suddenly become mobile, and smart?

Then I realized: I taught it to, that's how. It listened while I done all that talkin, and picked up the lingo, just kinda naturally. Not so amazin, when you look at it that way, see?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 03:45 am
@layman,
Yawn, chirality of the amino acids used in life is a given because we can only have DNA be a spiral if chirality is preserved in the nucleotides. Is there a R rotatory amino acid packed DNA (its a possibility as long as the enantioners are preserved as LorD).
19 of the 20 amino acids (except glycine, which is achiral) in proteins in LIVING species are .L.The neat thing is that, to date, I think weve found like 9 or the 20 amino acids in spectra of stars and supernovae, and in organic chemistry, PAsteur discovered mixtures of L/D molecules in solutions of salts.(He was able to split this up by using a polarizing filter).

Life a;so prefers C12 heavy organics. Other stuff, like carbonatite salts and non -living organics are a mix or prefer C13. Thus, some of the first fossils were merely C12 blobs in ancient water bodies. Life seemed to start out real slow with not too many proterozoic wooly mammoths or even fishes and birds.

Its gonna be really hard to come up with a work plan to do a credible investigation of whether life was poofterated into existence by a mountain spirit,magic turtle, or big plate a pasta.
Miller Urey experiments are alive and well, scientists have merely ajusted the chemical environment of the early earth. Was it a major reducing environment ? was water in short supply?
IDers are always shorting the game before the seventh inning stretch. Science sits back, quietly absorbs the criticism and says"If you can do better, be our guest"

SO FAR NO TAKERS.
layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 03:49 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Yawn


Farmer, you really should convey your knowledge of this ho-hum solution of a great scientific problem to the National Academy, posthaste, eh!?

BTW, you never answered my question, eh?
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 03:54 am
@farmerman,
You hit the nail on the head. So far, nobody has been able to explain why "goddidit!" is the better answer. Probably because it doesn't actually answer anything.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 03:57 am
@layman,
Quote:
How does "randomness" come in other than as a statement of belief, Farmer?
Im not sure of what you speak, since you made up the statement, why not explain it to us?

If science is able to even study it, it will probably look into something. You seemed to do as you usually do (ignore my previous paragraph and make up something totally out of context and claim I said it).

My question was, are you sure that DNA was a prerequisite to the living state?
How are you sure?

farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 04:07 am
@layman,
You may laugh, but at least panspermia can be studied . Suppose we find evidence of life on exoplanets , and the evidence of past lives with similar structures as what weve seen on the earth during its teenage years. Wouldnt a next series of steps be the investigation of HOW SIMILAR are these living things or their fossils to our own .?
Panspermia could become a hypothesis that science would take time to discuss and further evaluate.


If it works out that life nucleii invaded the early earth and seeded it on clouds of dust or mini meteorites, SCience would be irresponsible if it ignored the implications of that evidence. UNLIKE the IDers, who would turn away and ridicule the findings because it doesnt help the "Dominion Earth" story of their pooftic world beginnings.

Right now, no evidence supports Crick other than the existence of nucleotide spectra in the corona of stars and supernovae.
I guess we will have to wait, unless you wanna kick in some cash for your and neos own exploration of "ID in space" program
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 04:07 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
My question was, are you sure that DNA was a prerequisite to the living state?
How are you sure?


I aint sure of nuthin.


Quote:
How does "randomness" come in other than as a statement of belief, Farmer?
Im not sure of what you speak, since you made up the statement, why not explain it to us?


What's to explain, Farmer? You asked how god even entered the picture, except as a belief, remember?

So, the question is: "How does "randomness" come in other than as a statement of belief, Farmer?"

Are you advocating non-random, teleological, directed creation of life on earth? Or did life develop by sheer accident?


0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 04:15 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
My question was, are you sure that DNA was a prerequisite to the living state?


If it aint self-replicatin, then it aint nuthin. It will just die off of "old age," and that will be the end of that, eh?
layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 04:19 am
From an "atheism" blog:

Quote:
The myth that we have no hypotheses, and no explanations for the origin of life on earth persists. In fact, biologists are considering and testing a long list of possibilities that would explain the shift from non-living to living materials. Here’s a few summarized from Wikipedia...

[It goes on to summarize all kinda diverse "theories." A sample: "Bubbles collecting on the beach could have played a role in forming early, proto-cell membranes."]

Even if none of these hypotheses turn out to be corroborated by empirical investigation, the important point is that there are a number of live hypotheses being considered.


http://www.provingthenegative.com/2008/09/current-theories-of-abiogenesis.html

Sounds like what you're sayin, eh, Farmer? That the important thing is that we are thinkin about it, even if there is no known answer?

Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 04:31 am
Who knew that scientists would embrace the metaphysics of the red neck.

**** Happens I tell ya.

Or failing that, the metaphysics of MUFON.
layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 04:34 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
Or failing that, the metaphysics of MUFON.


MUFON. I like the sounda that! But what is it, Leddy?
layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 04:41 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
**** Happens I tell ya.


Ya know, them old-ass Greeks had themselves a little superstition. In latin it said: "Ex nihilo, nihil fit." Roughly translated: From nothing, nothing comes." Or, in every day American: "Aint nuthin comes from nuthin."

The fools, them!
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 04:45 am
Chemical bonds and chemical affinities are not random. That's basic high school chemistry. Learning the valences of elements, the number of available bonds and how they hook up is the very groundwork of understanding chemistry. The only puzzle in what is called abiogenesis (an hilarious term) is to determine under what conditions glycerol or amino acids would form. The compounds themselves are extremely basic. Glycerol is hydrogen and oxygen--lots of that on a planet with as much water as there is here. Add nitrogen, and you can get an amino acid. Those elements are abundant here.

There don't seem to be a lot of gods here, though. I know or no one who has turned one of those up. Lots and lots of oxygen, hydrogen and nitrogen--no gods, so far.
layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Dec, 2015 04:50 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
Chemical bonds and chemical affinities are not random.


Exactly (well, kinda, anyway). There are brute, unavoidable, physical FORCES at work. Chemicals aint got no choice. They can't decide to just, on their own damn volition, start a strike against oppression, organize themselves, and then go off actin on their own, to accomplish goals they desire, eh?
0 Replies
 
 

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