17
   

DNA, Where did the code come from?

 
 
layman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2016 04:17 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:

The Scientific Dissent from Darwin." It goes like this ...

Quote:
We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged.



If ya wanna see a list of hundreds of scientists who signed this statement, then ya can look here, eh?

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=660
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2016 04:20 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:



Exactly. Stupid-ass cars can't even reproduce. The "machinery" of a toad is about a million times more complex and more finely organized that the most complicated car.


If I throw 1,000 pieces of dirt in the air the way they land is a million more times complex than a car, so what's your point?
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2016 04:23 pm
@parados,
Quote:
If I throw 1,000 pieces of dirt in the air the way they land is a million more times complex than a car, so what's your point?


Do you work at sayin stupid-ass ****, Parry, or does it just come natural to ya?
parados
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2016 04:33 pm
@layman,
Just trying to keep up with the Laymans of the world. Rolling Eyes

I realize I am a long way behind you at this point.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2016 10:03 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:

Larry Moran: Only an IDiot would claim that supporters of this statement are also creationists.


http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-purpose-of-scientific-dissent-from.html

Quote:
Is Moran calling you an IDiot, ya think, Farmer?


I'll ask this again, Farmer, since this is a point you NEVER seem to get. Let me guess your answer, eh? Moran has lost all his marbles. That it? Before you say "He never said that," you can look at the article, and by-pass that stock answer, so....
layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2016 10:30 pm
From a story about a biologist funded by NASA's Astrobiology Institute:

Quote:
Frank Rosenzweig, an evolutionary geneticist at the University of Montana, studies how life evolves “complex traits,” factors that influence everything from lifespan to biodiversity.

“Over my career, I’ve been interested in what are the genetic bases of adaptation and how do complex communities evolve from single clones,” Rosenzweig said. “Related to these questions are others such as how do the genetic ‘starting point’ and ecological setting influence the tempo and trajectory of evolutionary change.”

Rosenzweig’s new research will focus on four areas where a complex system has arisen from simpler elements: metabolism, the eukaryotic cell, mutualism (co-operating species) and multicellularity. He will also look into a fifth area — mutations and gene interactions — that critically determines how quickly such complex systems can arise ...Rosenzweig plans to have eight different teams focusing on questions of evolution and changes from simple to more complex life. To integrate his teams’ experimental results into a broader framework he recruited theoreticians in the areas of population genetics and statistical physics.


http://www.astrobio.net/news-exclusive/life-become-complex-happen-beyond-earth/

Can all these so-called "experts" really be doin science, ya think? Before you answer, just look at some of the **** they're comin up with, eh?:

Quote:
This new line of inquiry has already led to one major publication entitled, “Starvation-associated genome restructuring can lead to reproductive isolation in yeast,” which was published in PLoS One in 2013. The first project led to an unexpected finding: stress may increase the frequency with which genome sequences are rearranged. Stress introduces new chromosomal variants into the species’ population that could prove beneficial under challenging circumstances.

Indeed, a major theme that runs through all of these investigations is that by studying evolutionary processes in the laboratory using simple unicellular species, we can expect to uncover rules that govern the tempo and trajectory of evolution in any population of self-replicating entities whose structure and function are programmed by information molecules.


See what I'm sayin? What is this **** about "rules" that govern evolution via programming by "information molecules?" It has been a known FACT for over a century that all genetic mutations are STRICTLY RANDOM. Anyone who has ever snickered at Lamarck, as all good Neo-Darwinists are trained to do, KNOWS that demands imposed by the external environment can NEVER have any effect on genetic changes. Mutations are RANDOM, without regard for whether or not such mutations are beneficial. The circumstance that you're starving, for example, cannot change this known FACT.

I can't believe our government is funding this kinda ID pseudo-science, eh?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2016 11:21 pm
Hmmm, Scientific American says this here, eh?:

Quote:
...one of biology’s biggest mysteries: how life transformed from simple single-celled organisms to the menagerie of complex life known as eukaryotes—a category that includes everything from yeast to azaleas to elephants.

“Next to the origins of life, there’s probably no bigger mystery in the history of life,” said John Archibald, an evolutionary biologist at Dalhousie University in Nova Scotia.

The jump from single cells to complex creatures is so puzzling because it represents an enormous evolutionary gulf. “How do you make a eukaryote, that’s a big question,” said Schleper, a microbiologist at the University of Vienna in Austria. “It’s a huge transition.”

... no detectable intermediates between ancient, single-celled life and early eukaryotes exist, making it nearly impossible to reconstruct the order of evolutionary events. Enter Loki, which some scientists have dubbed a microbial missing link....The discovery of Loki opens a sort of middle ground between the two groups....

The Loki discovery comes with one major caveat: So far, no one has ever seen one. Scientists can’t yet grow them in the lab. All they can do is isolate their DNA and try to infer what it does. “We have to be clear, we don’t know what it looks like,” Archibald said. “Their biology is being pieced together from genomic data.”


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/mongrel-microbe-tests-story-of-complex-life/

These fools are even speculating that the transition was not the result of innumerable, extremely gradual, minute random mutations. They are ignoring the known FACTS, eh? Don't they know any evolutionary theory at all!?

Quote:
At some point, an archaeon or a primitive eukaryote engulfed a bacterium, developing a symbiotic relationship. Against all odds, the two organisms became irreversibly intertwined. The resident bacterium became more and more dependent on its host cell, surrendering the vast majority of its genes, some of which ended up in the nucleus. The result was a singular development in the history of evolution that birthed the mitochondrion.


Mergers? Symbiosis? Organisms dependent upon each other, rather than competing for resources so the fittest can survive? Wholesale genomic changes? Blasphemy, eh?

I don't know why these guys think all this is so complicated, eh? It can all be COMPLETELY explained by three simple words, kindly supplied by Ros, eh?:

Quote:
* Reproduction
* Variation
* Selection
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2016 04:47 am
@layman,
Quote:


"Real evidence" of what, exactly? If I found a rubber tree in Costa Rica what would that tell me about the tire on a '53 Studebaker at the junkyard?

Thats the kind of mind you have Lamont. Taking time out to look for a rubber tree to infer that cars dont self assemble . Wow, Im glad Im at your seminars. We certainly learn from your vast experience (well maybe only half vast).
Got any more irrelevant posts?
layman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2016 04:50 am
@farmerman,
Just answer the damn question, eh, Farmer?: "Real evidence" of what, exactly?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2016 05:12 am
@layman,
The "random mutation is insufficient" crowd sadly, is as free of any evidence (just like the IDers) and, to many, the entire story of evolution is not that douche baggy simple. Its a complex interaction of heredity, morphological changes, adaptation, and EXTINCTION.

The "neutral theory " folks, while having an interesting hypothesis of occurence of a portion of what drives evolution, seem to miss everything else. AND IDers like you just cherry pick articles that seem to pose this "schism" in the sciences as valid evidence of a great gulf in knowledge and agrowing"War" among workers. Thats just bullshit. Nice try Lamont, I think the folks here who read can see your patterns of presentation.

All I have to say is that Lifes too complex to leave it to an intelligent design fable.

The concept of a "neutral theory" was actually started by Darwin and most of the science writers fail to recognize this fact. I smile whenever I read scientists who, in thir ignorance of the history of science, want so much to "do their great thing" and fail to give the great man his due.



layman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2016 05:17 am
@farmerman,

"We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."


Larry Moran:

Quote:
Many atheist scientists, including me, would agree with the statement.

Only an IDiot would claim that supporters of this statement are also creationists.


Do you agree with Moran about this, Farmer? "Only an IDiot would claim that supporters of this statement are also creationists."

Yes or no?
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2016 05:43 am
@layman,
Quote:
Are you some kinda FUNDY, or something, eh, Farmer? Nobody here, not Meyers or the other scientists in that vid, is talking about God except YOU. You always bring up God. Are you obsessed with religion?
I would not have thought that about farmer but I do believe you have that right.

He recently let that slip in another thread but I should have known all along. He argues with too much passion to be just another smart guy who sees no clue in science or nature. There are cigarettes in his past.

Another giveaway - his missing what the fallacy I accused him of was. He's too smart not to get the point, it was either a refusal to acknowledge the real ID argument or 'the passion' got to him.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2016 05:45 am
@layman,
Ive only been asking that all sides try to base their opinions and assertions upon the levels of EVIDENCE that they presently have in their pockets.

Follow the bouncing ball?
You are able to speculate until your had explodes, Id rather not. ARguments and discussions of opinion are the basis of work so (while these arguemnts hve been going on for at least 50 years, we still havent managed to doanything constructive except to account for the RE_EMERGENCE and mainstreaming of terms like genetic drift, ring evcolution, and several other terms that were fondly used by Goldschmidt, Haldane, and others in the 1930's through the 1950's
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2016 05:47 am
@layman,
Quote:
"Only an IDiot would claim that supporters of this statement are also creationists."
I agree, apparently you dont get it Lamont. Thats ok, keep searching for schisms on science

Theres one going on in Paleontology right now, that the evolution of tetrapods occured many tens of millions of years before Tiktaliik.
And another that says the "CAmbriqn Explosion" was actually quite a bit longer in duration than 20 million years
layman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2016 05:59 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Quote:
"Only an IDiot would claim that supporters of this statement are also creationists."
I agree...


If you agree, Farmer, than why do you think everyone who doesn't adopt your panadaptionist neo-Darwinian theories is a creationist, I wonder?

layman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2016 06:28 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
He argues with too much passion....


One mark of a religious fundy is that he will always insist that his religion, and/or his particular denomination within a religion, is the only correct one, eh?

Michael Ruse, the staunch Darwinist and vociferous opponent of ID theory, had this to say:

Quote:
Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion -- a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality. Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today.

Evolution now has its mystical visionary, its Saint John of the Cross. Harvard entomologist and sociobiologist Edward O. Wilson tells us that we now have an "alternative mythology" to defeat traditional religion. "Its narrative form is the epic: the evolution of the universe from the big bang of fifteen billion years ago through the origin of the elements and celestial bodies to the beginnings of life on earth."

There is no need to make a religion of evolution. On its own merits, evolution as science is just that -- good, tough, forward-looking science, which should be taught as a matter of course to all children, regardless of creed. But, let us be tolerant. If people want to make a religion of evolution, that is their business.


http://www.jodkowski.pl/ek/MRuse002.html
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2016 07:46 am
@layman,
Quote:
One mark of a religious fundy is that he will always insist that his religion, and/or his particular denomination within a religion, is the only correct one, eh?
True, but what I meant is that Evolution is only a replacement religion for a previous one. He had made a previous commitment to christianity. Having lost that, he is doubly committed to his new one. It's a common trait and story among the passionately anti ID.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2016 07:50 am
Oh man, you write the most hilariously idiotic BS.
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2016 07:53 am
@Setanta,
Why don't you ask him if it's BS?

Or you can look it up yourself.
http://able2know.org/topic/308209-2#post-6106658

Any smoking in your past?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2016 07:55 am
Quote:
It's a common trait and story among the passionately anti ID.


That is hilariously idiotic, and that's your BS, no one else's.
 

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