Still wanna defend him?

Kuwait bans anti-Bush documentary

Moore's film has sparked controversy across the world
Kuwait has banned Michael Moore's controversial documentary Fahrenheit 9/11, calling the film insulting to the Saudi Arabian royal family.

Authorities in Kuwait, a US ally, also objected to the film's criticism of America's invasion of Iraq.

"We have a law that prohibits insulting friendly nations," said Abdul-Aziz Bou Dastour of the Information Ministry.

The controversy over Fahrenheit 9/11 has helped it break box office records for a documentary.

The film, which won the Cannes Film Festival, was the first documentary to make $100m (£54.5m) in North America.

It criticises President George Bush for being unprepared for the 11 September attacks and using propaganda to gain public support.

The Saudi royal family also features, along with claims that Saudi nationals were allowed to flee the US in the aftermath of 11 September despite the country's airspace being closed.

'Failed research'

Abdul-Aziz Bou Dastour said the film "insulted the Saudi royal family by saying they had common interests with the Bush family and that those interests contradicted with the interests of the American people".

He added: "The movie made Iraq look like a paradise whose problems started with the American invasion. It would have angered Kuwaitis."

Prince Turki al-Faisal, the Saudi Arabian ambassador to London, has said Moore failed to carry out proper research for the documentary.

He said the film "criticised America's policy on invading Iraq and this was tantamount to criticizing Kuwait for [what it did] to liberate Iraq".

The state-owned Kuwait National Cinema Co had applied for a license to show Fahrenheit 9/11 but its request was turned down by government censors.

It is showing in other Middle Eastern countries including the United Arab Emirates and Lebanon.

Meanwhile, a US newspaper is seeking a token $1 in damages from Michael Moore and the film's distributor, Lion's Gate, for allegedly doctoring its front page for the documentary.

The Pantagraph newspaper, based in Bloomington, Illinois, said the film included a shot showing a front page headline "Latest Florida recount shows Gore won the election" that never actually appeared on page one.

It said the headline only appeared in much smaller type on the letters page which reflects "only the opinions of the letter writer".

"If [Moore] wants to 'edit' The Pantagraph, he should apply for a copy-editing job," the paper said.

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On the other hand on CNN (I think) last night, there was a clip showing Cubans in Cuba emerging from seeing F-111 shaking their heads about how stupid a president the U.S. has. Apparently Fidel thinks it's just great.

On the bright side, they were amazed that Moore had the freedom to make and show F-111 in the United States. It woudn't happen there.

Which to me is all that much more ironic that Moore uses the very freedoms that allows him to do it to trash his country that provides those very freedoms.

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But, doesn't it sadden you to think that there are people who think you shouldn't use that freedom to critique Moore's film until you have seen it?

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Fahrenheit 9/11: The temperature at which Michael Moore's pants burn

Michael Moore's career as a rabble-rousing populist has been marked by a frequent pattern of dissembling and factual inaccuracy. He distorted the chronology of his first movie, "Roger & Me"; repeatedly peddled the myth that the Bush administration gave $43 million to the Taliban; published two books, Stupid White Men and Dude, Where's My Country?, that were riddled with factual errors and distortions; and won an Academy Award for "Bowling for Columbine," a documentary based on a confused and often contradictory argument that features altered footage of a Bush-Quayle campaign ad, a misleading presentation of a speech by National Rifle Association president Charlton Heston, and other factual distortions.

With his new documentary "Fahrenheit 9/11," which won the prestigious Palme D'Or at the Cannes Film Festival and was #1 at the US box office last week, Moore has surged to new prominence -- and come under increasing scrutiny. His staff has made much of elaborate fact-checking that was reportedly conducted on the film. And fortunately, it appears to be free of the silly and obvious errors that have plagued Moore's past work, such as the claim in Stupid White Men that the Pentagon planned to spend $250 billion on the Joint Strike Fighter in 2001, a sum that represented over 80 percent of the total defense budget request for the year.

However, "Fahrenheit 9/11" is filled with a series of deceptive half-truths and carefully phrased insinuations that Moore does not adequately back up. As Washington Monthly blogger Kevin Drum and others have noted, the irony is that these are the same tactics frequently used by the target of the film, George W. Bush. Moore and his chief antagonist have more in common than viewers might think.

Read the rest at the source...

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Quote:

But, doesn't it sadden you to think that there are people who think you shouldn't use that freedom to critique Moore's film until you have seen it?

This is ENOUGH for me to end reading here...

sheeesh....

sigh.

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Moore does not trash the country. He points out things in the country that need fixing. (namely bush and the administration. despite what you all think, Bush and republicans are not the USA. ) If every time people pointed out things in our country that needed fixing they were told that they were trashing it or whatever, we would not have made any of the great changes that we have made in the last century.

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I'm still pissed about the breaking-up of Ma Bell, at least I could read and understand my phone bill in those days.

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revel wrote:

Moore does not trash the country. He points out things in the country that need fixing. (namely bush and the administration. despite what you all think, Bush and republicans are not the USA. ) If every time people pointed out things in our country that needed fixing they were told that they were trashing it or whatever, we would not have made any of the great changes that we have made in the last century.

Nobody said he is trashing the country,but if a Republican film maker made a "documentary" with as many lies,half truths,distortions,and factual omissions as Moore did,the left would be screaming bloody murder.

If you really dont believe that his film is that bad,then I will be happy to provide you with several sites that document and prove his lies and halftruths.

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Michael Moore went to another country to tell them Americans are the dumbest people on earth, that we should do things like the Europeans do, and that our president is a (insert uncomplimentary adjective of choice here.) If that isn't trashing the country, it comes rather close don't you think? I don't know why so many continue to defend him, considering the low opinion he holds of Americans in general.

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Fox - can't remember who said it, but the new mantra to Michael Moore:

SOAP IS ON THE WAY!!!!!!!!

(Looks to me like he needs a bit more than soap)

Laughing

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Mysteryman Wrote:

Quote:

Nobody said he is trashing the country,but if a Republican film maker made a "documentary" with as many lies,half truths,distortions,and factual omissions as Moore did,the left would be screaming bloody murder.

Gotcha!

They did! It was titled 'The Case For The Iraq War.' THAT'S why we are screaming bloody murder about it. Thanks for understanding and supporting our case.

Cycloptichorn

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If nothing else, Moore is driving the conservatives crazy. As this thread suggests.

Take a beating, guys...

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mysteryman wrote:

revel wrote:
Moore does not trash the country. He points out things in the country that need fixing. (namely bush and the administration. despite what you all think, Bush and republicans are not the USA. ) If every time people pointed out things in our country that needed fixing they were told that they were trashing it or whatever, we would not have made any of the great changes that we have made in the last century.

Nobody said he is trashing the country,but if a Republican film maker made a "documentary" with as many lies,half truths,distortions,and factual omissions as Moore did,the left would be screaming bloody murder.

If you really dont believe that his film is that bad,then I will be happy to provide you with several sites that document and prove his lies and halftruths.

Actually someone did in Post: 822865.

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Quote:

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and isn't this what the United States was based on, in part ...

Quote:

true patriots are those who believe the important thing is to ask questions, you know. To dissent when necessary.

Is it trashing America to think it's cool to talk about politics?

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you can't compare this election to any election before September 11, 2001.

That day and since that day has made average Americans more aware of what's going on in the world. They want to know more about what's going on in the world. They talk politics now. We all know this. Right? At work, you go in the bar, people are talking about politics. Anywhere you go, people talk politics. It's cool now to talk about politics. Right? It's uncool if you don't know what's going on in the world. It's uncool to be apathetic. Now that has not been the case for most of our lives much. Right? If you talked too much politics you were seen as kind of strange and wonkey. Right? But that's not the case. That's why John Stewart is so popular, because people want to talk about politics. They want to hear about it, and that's the big story that the media has missed. That there's been this shift in the country.

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and horror of horrors - people are being encouraged to vote

Quote:

WHERE do you register?

There are several different ways to register. You can register at your county board of elections, some post offices and libraries, or, you can get registration forms online.

Find contact info for your local election office here. They'll be able to mail you a voter registration card or you can swing by and pick one up.

You can also call Project Vote Smart's, 1-888-VOTE-SMART. They'll point you in the right direction and give you the phone number for your election office.

You can download the universal voting registration form from the FEC here, then print it, fill it out, and mail it to your local election office.

Perhaps the easiest thing to do is to register online. Rock the Vote set us up with an online voter registration form. All you have to do is fill in your information and they'll enter it into the form. After you've finished, they'll give you the completed form and an address for your local election office where you will need to mail the form. You can fill in your form right now through www.michaelmoore.com and www.rockthevote.com .

And finally, spread the word! At Your Vote Matters, you can email your friends a link for them to register to vote. They'll fill it out online, then print it and mail it in.

you can't trash America much more than encouraging people to vote

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Mysteryman Wrote:

Quote:
Nobody said he is trashing the country,but if a Republican film maker made a "documentary" with as many lies,half truths,distortions,and factual omissions as Moore did,the left would be screaming bloody murder.

Gotcha!

They did! It was titled 'The Case For The Iraq War.' THAT'S why we are screaming bloody murder about it. Thanks for understanding and supporting our case.

Cycloptichorn

I don't remember a movie by that name.Who did it and when was it released?
If you are trying to say that Bush lied to the country,would you like me to provide you with the quotes from Bill Clinton,Al Gore,John Kerry,and all of the other members of the CLINTON ADMINISTRATION that said Hussein was a threat,while Clinton was in office.
Are you willing to admit that ALL OF THEM LIED ALSO?
Unless you are willing to admit that,then you cannot honestly say that Bush lied.

Of course,the left has been telling lies about Bush since he was elected.
The left has claimed that Powell is the ONLY MEMBER of the Bush WH that has ever seen combat,or that he is the only person to have been in the service in the administration.
That is an outright lie,and the left knows it. Tom Ridge won a bronze star,one step below Kerrys silver star.He was a US army infantry squad leader in Vietnam.Are you going to say that is a lie.One member of Bush's cabinet commanded the same type of boat that Kerry did,in the Mekong Delta of Vietnam.Are you going to call that a lie also?
Maybe Moore made some good points in his movie,but he told so many half truths and outright lies that any good points are negated.
At least,according to the left that is the case.Many on the left,including some people on here,have said that one "lie" of omission by Bush automatically negates everything he has ever said or done.
If that is the case,then why wont you hold Moore to the same standard?
Its the same for both,or it doesn't apply to either,you decide.

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I don't know that he's specifically trashed the country, but he has trashed it's people, which is pretty much the same thing, isn't it?

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Finn - Moore's supporters somehow think that they were excluded from his remarks to overseas audiences regarding "ignorant" Americans.

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JustWonders wrote:

Finn - Moore's supporters somehow think that they were excluded from his remarks to overseas audiences regarding "ignorant" Americans.

I am not necessarily a moore fan, before his movie I have never heard of him.

However, I don't exclude myself from moore's remark that most of us were ignorant before 9/11, we would have rather sat on our couches and watch a movie about people blowing things up rather than thinking it could really happen. politics was reduced to defining the meaning of sexual relations and is.

The republicans problem is that they can't see any fault in themselves, they think admitting fault is somehow giving the enemy ammunition to use against rather than admitting our faults so that we can grow from them.

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Quote:

Finn - Moore's supporters somehow think that they were excluded from his remarks to overseas audiences regarding "ignorant" Americans.

No we don't. I think that most of Moore's supporters agree with him that Americans are ignorant of a lot of issues and world problems.

Of course, some Americans will know more and some less. I study world problems every day thanks to the internet and A2k... and I still consider myself ignorant compared to many others.

Besides, who cares what he says to people overseas? If someone went overseas and said all Americans had three arms and could fly, you would laugh. If someone said we all smell bad, you would laugh. The only reason what he said strikes people as wrong is because there is a lot of truth in it.

Quote:

I don't remember a movie by that name.Who did it and when was it released?
If you are trying to say that Bush lied to the country,would you like me to provide you with the quotes from Bill Clinton,Al Gore,John Kerry,and all of the other members of the CLINTON ADMINISTRATION that said Hussein was a threat,while Clinton was in office.
Are you willing to admit that ALL OF THEM LIED ALSO?
Unless you are willing to admit that,then you cannot honestly say that Bush lied.

Sure I can. Saddam, and Iraq, did represent a threat at one point, and may have again. But the line between a 'threat' and 'someone we have to take out immediately' is a big one. The line between 'Saddam may be up to some bad stuff, we have to keep an eye on him closely' and 'Saddam has tons of WMD (which we cannot find) and has to be attacked IMMEDIATELY' is a huge one, and you know it.

Bush lied. If anyone was in the position to know that the case for war was not solid, it was him. He didn't tell the American people that the decision to go to war was made long ago, and the case for it built up afterwards - that would not have gone over well with the public, methinks.

At the very least, he failed to provide Due Dilligence as our elected leader in the implementation of his duties as head of our armed forces re: failure to ensure accuracy of information that MUST be accurate if war is to come.

Cycloptichorn

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May have been a threat in the future?
Thats entirely possible,but knowing his record,and his penchant for attacking his neighbors and Using WMD against his own people,what would you have done?
Would you have the US wait till one of our cities were attacked?
Would you have waited till Iraq attacked one of our allies?
Turkey? Israel? Saudi Arabia? Which country do you consider as expendable?

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Still wanna defend him?

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