The tolerant atheist

@ehBeth,

Hope I succeeded, or at least showed I tried. How'm I doin?

And about your favorite theologian, I'd still like to know..

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@Leadfoot,

Favourite? there are several I find interesting, but favourite?

here are a few

http://americamagazine.org/issue/420/article/remembering-poor-interview-gustavo-gutirrez

http://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2010/oct/03/profile-karen-armstrong-religion

https://ffrf.org/news/day/dayitems/item/14429-henry-david-thoreau

__

I have been listening to Tapestry for many years and often follow clues from that program to interesting areas of study

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/tapestry

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@Leadfoot,

What makes it hell? Most people would like nothing better than to be left alone, and for others to mind their own business while they mind their own. I can think of nothing more absurd than that having people nosing in my business is "heaven."

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Go figure, eh?:

Quote:

Atheist Lieutenant Annoys Entire Platoon Into Christianity

An Army platoon leader was shocked to learn that his entire platoon had converted to Christianity en masse this week..."my whole platoon? And after I spent so much time encouraging them to be free thinkers and humanists?"

“This is just too much,” he added, before departing early for the day, telling his commander he felt ill.

Garrison’s soldiers claim that rather than dissuade them, his militant atheism actually drove them toward religion....“He even made us watch this stupid-ass Richard Dawkins documentary in the dayroom during lunch,” said Sgt. Tom Hemry. “The lieutenant thinks that Dawkins is like the patron saint of atheists. That guy is more like the patron saint of condescending assholes."

Hemry then related how he convinced the other soldiers in his squad to start going to the local Southern Baptist church.

“At first it was just to piss off that idiot lieutenant, like, really throw it in his face,” Hemry said. “But after sitting in there for a couple of weeks, we realized that these people aren’t morons, they’re actually pretty nice. So we stuck around, and after awhile it wore off on us.”

http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/04/atheist-lt-christianity/

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Hope I succeeded, or at least showed I tried. How'm I doin?

Leadfoot wrote:

We are the only ones who can examine our own lives.

you'll have to sort that out yourself

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@layman,

Quote:

"That guy is more like the patron saint of condescending assholes."

I mean, like, can you BELIEVE they didn't wanna get in on that action right quick!? What's up with them fools, ya figure?

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@ehBeth,

I was snooping around some of those web sites and I noticed that all the ads hqd something to do with LINOLEUM FLOORING> Is there something going on up there in Canajia of which we should be made aware ?

creeped out in Pennsylvania

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@Leadfoot,

Quote:

Or as Socrates put it "The unexamined life is not worth living". We are the only ones who can examine our own lives.

But there really is no valid reason to accuse anyone here (on-line forums) for 'bullying' or 'butting into other's beliefs'. No one twisted any arms to get anyone to log-on and the ignore function is readily available. The ones complaining are, as Mr. Shakespeare put it, 'Protesting too much'.

So far so good, as long as you don't include me in that set.

But what's that got to do with "'tolerance' could simply be an excuse for 'not getting involved'"?

1 Reply

...and while we have our intellectual chat, the death toll from religious extremism mounts in Paris......23.30 local time 40+ victims.....

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@ehBeth,

From your link: interview of one of your favorite 'theologians' (Gustavo Gutirrez) .

Quote:

Interviewer:
You have always placed the concerns of the poor in the forefront of your theological reflection. Must every theologian come to grips with the reality of social suffering in the world, or is this only incumbent, say, on those who work directly within a context of poverty?

Gutirrez:
I am firmly convinced that poverty—this sub-human condition in which the majority of humanity lives today—is more than a social issue. Poverty poses a major challenge to every Christian conscience and therefore to theology as well.

People today often talk about contextual theologies but, in point of fact, theology has always been contextual. Some theologies, it is true, may be more conscious of and explicit about their contextuality, but all theological investigation is necessarily carried out within a specific historical context.

Because as a kid I came from poverty, I am sympathetic to the poor. I wasn't 3rd world, malnourished poor but hungry a lot, living without electricity or water for months at a time and frequently being evicted poor. Poverty sucks.

But we're talking about theology here. If your primary focus and "historical context" is anything less than the purpose of life on earth and why God put us here for this short space of time, you are not a theologian. Nothing against them but you are a social worker or humanitarian masquerading as a theologian.

At the time, i did not know how poor my family was and I haven't been poor for a long time so I spent a few days volunteering at a homeless shelter and feeding center to see what poverty looked like. I also worked with a neighbor family who was headed for poverty trying to get them back on their feet financially. That was enough to convince me that their biggest problem was poverty of spirit, not of food or money. They needed the food and shelter and I'm glad they got it, but they will never get what they need the most from the likes of Gutirrez. He has the wrong ******* context.

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

From your link: interview of one of your favorite 'theologians' (Gustavo Gutirrez) .

here is what I said

ehBeth wrote:

Favourite? there are several I find interesting, but favourite?

here are a few

you can't tell the difference between interesting and favourite?

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Nothing against them but

really? nothing against them but you're judging

<blinks>

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

But what's that got to do with "'tolerance' could simply be an excuse for 'not getting involved'"?

I'm thinking of the 'average Joe' who by and large has a live and let live attitude. They go to work every day, come home to their family and watch their favorite stuff on TV in the evening. They don't bother anyone and don't want to be bothered. They take this tolerant attitude as having done their 'duty' to themselves and that's all the contemplation of life that's needed. They are content to live in that 'gray hell' as I called it and wonder why life seems unsatisfying.

Yeah, they have the right to leave it at that and I damn sure ain't gonna go knock'n on their door to change their minds. I'm just saying they're short changing themselves by 'not getting involved' with their own vision of what life is.

And no, I'm not including you in that set. I'm not even including Set in that set.

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

really? nothing against them but you're judging

**** yeah I'm judging. So are you and every conscious being on the planet. What's wrong with that?

I just wanted to be clear that I had nothing against social workers, etc. Just don't confuse them with theologians.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Quote:

**** yeah I'm judging. So are you and every conscious being on the planet.

I never get it when somebody I knows asks: Who are you to judge?

I always just say: I'm Layman, foo, ya done gone plumb wack, that it?

Otherwise, I just say: I'm the one doin the judging here--has ya clean forgot already?

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@fresco,

Quote:

Atheism based on 'scientific rationality' has no hope of changing attitudes. It is philosophically naive. But atheism based on the social perniciousness of religion, by exposing its tribalism and chauvinism , might have a better chance if those with the intelligence to understand those aspects made more effort to expose them.

I would love to be able to say that atheism has a superior track record in regard to social good, or to at least be able to say its effects have been pernicious. Unfortunately I can't. The Soviet Union and Communist China vie for the top spot, in term of scale, on the list of the worst cases of cultural self-mutilation the human species has ever seen. The Soviet Union was the world's first atheist state.

If it's Islam we're speaking of, I agree with the Muslim scholars who say the solution to many of the ills plaguing Saudi, Egypt, Pakistan, and elsewhere, is secularism, not atheism. The virtue in this path is that passages of the Quran seem to affirm that Islam has a natural affinity for democracy. An added bonus is that tolerance, which is the central column of secularism is rooted in something beyond its practical advantages. It's rooted in love. Ask an archetypal representative of any of the global religions what comes from devotion to love.

In short, the challenges facing Islam are not a result of stupidity. It's that their culture was mangled by the British Empire and further undermined by the behavior of the US during the Cold War. The West has nothing to offer them in terms of finding the way forward. They have to do that on their own.

Quote:

There is a lot of vested interest hypocrisy operating about 'mutual respect' which is used as a justification for 'tolerance'. But in a world of global communications and aggressive reach, parochial insularity and parochial solutions are being constantly eroded.

Hypocrisy is nothing new. Neither is cynicism.

1 Reply

@Tuna,

Despotic atheistic states can be just as 'pernicious' as authoritarian theocracies. They merely replace 'celestial' authority with a secular one. The masses certainly seem to need their opiates. What is missing in democracies is perhaps is a 'government health warning' on the packet.

Note that the British PM has just issued the sympathetic statement to the French that 'Our thoughts and prayers are with you'. No comment !

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@fresco,

Typical double-speak, Fresky;

Quote:

...atheism based on the social perniciousness of religion, by exposing its tribalism and chauvinism , might have a better chance [of changing attitudes] if those with the intelligence to understand those aspects made more effort to expose them.

So, atheistic "intelligent people" could change attitudes if they would "expose" religion, eh? On the other hand, you say:

Quote:

Despotic atheistic states can be just as 'pernicious' as authoritarian theocracies.

So what does atheism or non-atheism have to do with "perniciousness," exactly?

Apparently "those with the intelligence to understand" are half-baked in their "intelligence." Would you happened to be one of those, ya figure?

1 Reply

@layman,

This is pretty hilarious. We are to believe, i take it, that no one in his platoon was a christian before the lieutenant made his unfortunate remarks. But the hilarity increases when one goes to his source and reads the "About" page.

Quote:

Since 1797, Duffel Blog has been serving the men and women of the American military with insightful commentary and hard-hitting journalism.

No sh*t . . . there were web logs in 1797? Sniff . . . sniff sniff . . . what's that i smell? Smells like bullsh*t to me. According to the Online Etymological dictionary, the term duffelbag first appears in print in 1917--one hundred twenty years after these clowns claim they came into existence. They also claim to have revealed President Adams' $200/week cocaine habit. According to Project Know, understanding addiction:

John Adams (1797-1801)
John Adams was known to enjoy alcohol, including beer, wine, and rum. However, there is no evidence that he did so to excess.

and . . .

John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
John Quincy Adams was not known to drink excessively or use drugs.

I checked them both because those clowns didn't specify which President Adams they were talking about.

Say . . . i wonder if i could sell lameman a bridge?

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@layman,

Typical sour grapes Layabout !
Maybe they don't do English comprehension in 3rd grade. Hint: use your dictionary to look up the keywords 'celestial', 'secular' and 'authority'.

In my role as an educator I did everything I could to promote the understanding of the arbitrary nature of religious belief and the discouragement of tribal prejudice in children. Imagine being faced with two Muslim kids of Pakistani origin fighting over one calling the other 'black', or one kid making another cry because 'she would not be going to heaven' and you might get an inkling of the situations teachers need to deal with.

1 Reply

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