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Introducing John Kerry

 
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jul, 2004 11:15 am
McGentrix wrote:
D'artagnan wrote:
When I see the kind of posts that started this thread, I think, "If I want to read the screeds of right-wing commentators, I would read the NY Post or one of the web sites that spew this kind of BS."

What is it about the righties that compel them to post this kind of swill? Is it so much more brilliant than their own original thought? Scary idea...


Ya know, I just scrolled back through the last four pages to see how many interesting threads you have started based on your own original thoughts. Can you guess how many I found?


Well, you may not find them interesting, but they're not simple cut 'n' paste jobs, are they? That was the point I was making. And they're not all political, either. I have other interests...
0 Replies
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jul, 2004 05:08 pm
Re: Introducting John Kerry
That's what I was going to point out as well, Nimh. Smile
Brandon9000 wrote:
From: http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/25829.htm
So you really want the column addressed, Brandon? First of all, if it's written by somebody like Morris, it's not something I would choose to read. I already know what it will say and that it will be stupid. But if you insist:THE BAGEL CANDIDACY
By Dick Morris

July 30, 2004 -- I LOVED Bill Clinton's speech. I was inspired by John Edwards. Bar ack Obama thrilled me. Max Cleland made me grow as a person as I heard him . . .
And then there was John Kerry.
(Whose speech was very good!)
All around him was eloquence but, in the center of the bagel, there was a speech that was a letdown.

And did he just tell 140,000 men and women fighting in Iraq that they are there because of a mistake?
He doesn't need to "tell them", most already know, even better than he does!Really? So BinLaden is in one of those countries?
I honor his service in Vietnam. I think a man who knows what it is like to fight in a war is a good person to have as commander-in-chief. John Kerry is a good man. But what else is there?

Last time I checked, Sen. John Kerry was 60 years old. But to listen to his speech last night at the Democratic National Convention, you would think he was still in his 20s.


He opened up his talk with a lengthy and evocative description of his childhood and what it was like growing up in divided Berlin. He told us of the "goose bumps" he remembers getting when the band struck up "Stars and Stripes Forever."

Then, after this long rendition of his childhood, he tells us at length what it was like to serve in Vietnam for the four months that he was there. So far, so good.

But then he spent only about one minute talking about what he has done since.

Beyond a brief allusion to his efforts for crime victims and to prosecute crimes against women as an assistant district attorney, his support for Clinton's plan for extra cops and a balanced budget and a reference to his work with John McCain on the POW and MIA issue in Vietnam, that's it.

What did this man do as an adult? What happened during his service as Michael Dukakis' lieutenant-governor in Massachusetts and in his 20 years in the United States Senate?
Jeez, look it up! How long does this guy want the speech to be? He's already been nominated, because people already know these things about him.
What bills did he introduce? What initiatives did he sponsor? Which investigations did he lead? What amendments bear his name? What great debates did he participate in?
See above
What did he do for his constituents in Massachusetts? What businesses did he persuade to come to the Bay State? Which elderly did he help get their Social Security benefits? What injustices did he correct?
See aboveSigh.

Oddly, his absence of biography confirms the impression I formed of him during my White House years: He's a back-bencher. I never can recall a single time that his name came up in any discussion of White House strategy on anything. He was the man who wasn't there. We were always figuring out how to deal with Ted Kennedy or Pat Moynihan or Tom Daschle or Phil Gramm, or Al D'Amato or Bob Dole or Jesse Helms or Orin Hatch or Joe Biden. But nobody every asked about John Kerry.
So he's not popular enough for Morris, big whoop!
He wasn't much there then, and he's not much there now. Only now he wants us to trust him to be president.

And that we do!

Not a convincing article, IMO.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jul, 2004 05:16 pm
Maybe Joe forgets that Dick Morris was one of Clinton's primary 'image' advisors until his little hooker scandal which of course forced Clinton, out of virtuous moral indignation, to send Morris packing. It does give Morris some pretty impressive insights into the inner sanctum of the Clinton West Wing however.

The plain truth is, the Dems are terrified that much attention will be given to the last 20 years of Kerry's life. All they have to offer is a four-month stint in Vietnam and hopes that will make him look like a patriotic war hero with qualifications to be commander in chief despite his years of his refutation of the very service he now touts as his credentials.

I only hope the Bush campaign has the savvy to keep bringing the focus back on the real credentials, i.e. Kerry's senate record.
0 Replies
 
Redheat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 08:27 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Maybe Joe forgets that Dick Morris was one of Clinton's primary 'image' advisors until his little hooker scandal which of course forced Clinton, out of virtuous moral indignation, to send Morris packing. It does give Morris some pretty impressive insights into the inner sanctum of the Clinton West Wing however.

The plain truth is, the Dems are terrified that much attention will be given to the last 20 years of Kerry's life. All they have to offer is a four-month stint in Vietnam and hopes that will make him look like a patriotic war hero with qualifications to be commander in chief despite his years of his refutation of the very service he now touts as his credentials.

I only hope the Bush campaign has the savvy to keep bringing the focus back on the real credentials, i.e. Kerry's senate record.


Morris is a hack, the only ones who take him seriously are the right wingers who think that if they use him that the lies will gain some credibility.

He has no insight he just seen $$ and decided to dip into the same dittohead sucker pool as Rush does and he's managed to make money off those who are foaming at the mouth to have some hatefilled garabage to spread.
0 Replies
 
Sagamore
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 09:06 am
Repubs would like to play a game of "Let's pretend."

Let's pretend that Dick Morris has a shred of credibility.

Let's pretend that Dick Morris now speaks for the mainstream and family values, while paying hookers to suck his toes.

Let's pretend that Dick Morris, absent his well-known pecadillos, has no anti-dem agenda.

Repubs demand answers to Morris' comments despite the fact that he is a well-known political hack with no values of his own. But, let's pretend he is a serious player in this election. And, while we're at it, let's pretend that Ann Coulter and Rush have anything true and of substance to add to the dialogue.

No, thanks. That is the very definition of wasting one's time.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 09:10 am
Sagamore wrote:
Repubs demand answers to Morris' comments despite the fact that he is a well-known political hack with no values of his own....

Some people who find themselves unable to answer an argument itself, try instead to discredit its source.
0 Replies
 
Redheat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 09:17 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
Sagamore wrote:
Repubs demand answers to Morris' comments despite the fact that he is a well-known political hack with no values of his own....

Some people who find themselves unable to answer an argument itself, try instead to discredit its source.


What was the argument?
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 09:44 am
Redheat wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
Sagamore wrote:
Repubs demand answers to Morris' comments despite the fact that he is a well-known political hack with no values of his own....

Some people who find themselves unable to answer an argument itself, try instead to discredit its source.


What was the argument?

The view of John Kerry expressed in the article by Morris. Let's not play word games, shall we? We all know what we mean.
0 Replies
 
Sagamore
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 11:23 am
Brandon-Some people are just not worth debating. And, often it is because they have proven to be unreliable or hopelessly out of the mainstrea. I find Rush, Morris and Coulter to be in that group. Maybe you think we have an obligation to pretend that their premise is worth debating. I don't.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 11:37 am
Sagamore wrote:
Brandon-Some people are just not worth debating. And, often it is because they have proven to be unreliable or hopelessly out of the mainstrea. I find Rush, Morris and Coulter to be in that group. Maybe you think we have an obligation to pretend that their premise is worth debating. I don't.

My post was certainly no worse than absurd character assasination which is posted against Bush and Cheney on this board every day, in addition to the serious, albeit usually false, criticisms of them. Also, I find it interesting that you consider views "out of the mainstream" to be unworthy of serious response.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 11:39 am
Brandon, as sagamore stated, some people are not worth debating.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 11:41 am
McGentrix wrote:
Brandon, as sagamore stated, some people are not worth debating.

On the other hand, incorrect views based on transparently false or purposely misleading logic ought not to be allowed to stand.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 11:49 am
Missing years

We all know that Senator John Kerry was in the Vietnam war. He repeatedly reminds us of it at every opportunity. He also repeats the great things he will accomplish when he becomes President of the United States. What he says very little about is what he has actually accomplished in the three decades in between.

That is very appropriate because he has accomplished very little in his 19 years in the Senate. Can you name a single piece of major legislation that has Senator Kerry's name on it? Don't be embarrassed if you can't because there is none.

What was John Kerry doing before he became a Senator? He tells us that he was a prosecutor. What he does not mention is that he was also lieutenant governor when Michael Dukakis was governor of Massachusetts.

This is the same Michael Dukakis who ran for President in 1988 while trying to run away from his liberal-left record, and who tried to cover up his typical liberal anti-military bias by being photographed in a tank. The picture looked so phony that it backfired.

This is the same Michael Dukakis who came out of the Democratic convention with a double-digit lead over the elder George Bush in the polls -- until his liberal track record became public knowledge, including his allowing violent criminals weekend furloughs from prison.

John Kerry's track record as the most liberal Senator from the country's most liberal state is likewise being covered up with images and rhetoric. Whether or not history will repeat itself on election day remains to be seen.

It is considered an "attack" or "negative advertising" to tell people the plain truth that John Kerry's voting record in the Senate was ranked more liberal than that of Ted Kennedy. It was not Republicans who made these rankings but a liberal organization as well as a non-partisan research group.

Like Dukakis back in 1988, the Kerry campaign is waving aside "labels" as irrelevant. But "irrelevant" is itself a label -- and one used to avoid confronting the question of whether the charge of being a liberal is true or false.

Liberals are not some new and exotic species. They have been around for a long time and their positions are well known on issues ranging from racial quotas to military policy. That is why so much effort has gone into camouflaging those positions at the Democratic convention and in the Kerry campaign.

What are those issues and what is the camouflage?

Foremost in this age of international terrorism is the issue of military defense and intelligence-gathering. Ever since the days of George McGovern back in 1972, liberal Democrats have been for cutting back spending on the military and on the intelligence agencies.

John Kerry has voted time and again to do both. Now he is among those loudly criticizing the inadequacies of the agencies he voted to weaken.

It is not just a question of cutting money to those agencies. Liberals have also voted to hamstring our intelligence agencies by limiting their scope at home and abroad.

Jamie Gorelick on the 9/11 Commission that is so critical of these agencies for not sharing information was a Justice Department official in the Clinton administration and it was she who forbad the FBI from sharing information with the CIA.

As for taking military action, liberals have been for outsourcing such decisions to the United Nations, where nothing decisive will ever be done, militarily or otherwise. That is what makes the UN so convenient for liberals.

How can such a record of weakness be covered up? By using the word "strong" -- again and again. The Democratic convention was dominated by banners saying "A Strong America." John Kerry used the word "strong" or "strength" a dozen times in his 50-minute speech.

Other speakers at the Democratic convention likewise keep loudly repeating the word "strong." They clench their fists again and again. Jimmy Carter did it. John Kerry did it. Even Senator Joe Lieberman did it. It is orchestrated disinformation.

The big question is: Will it work?

link
0 Replies
 
Redheat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 12:50 pm
Re: Introducting John Kerry
THE BAGEL CANDIDACY
By Dick Morris

Quote:
July 30, 2004 -- I LOVED Bill Clinton's speech. I was inspired by John Edwards. Bar ack Obama thrilled me. Max Cleland made me grow as a person as I heard him . . .
And then there was John Kerry.

All around him was eloquence but, in the center of the bagel, there was a speech that was a letdown.


That is his opinion which he is welcome to but it doesn't denote an actual fact.

Quote:
And did he just tell 140,000 men and women fighting in Iraq that they are there because of a mistake?


I think those 140,000 or at least some of them have all ready figured out the "mistake" part. However where is the success? The war was not planned well, it was started and funded on the cheap and nothing that was said to be the reason for our being there has proven to be so. From where most reasonable people sit , it was a mistake. Even if you agree with the premise of going you have to admit the actual planning was haphazard and the advise of those in the know was ignored. So YES if you actually look at what transpired it was a huge mistake.



Quote:


Again nothing thus far has shown that we "had" to be there. It was an elective adventure because Iraq neither threatened us or our allies, it was PRE EMPTIVE therefore "elective" in nature. Afghanistan has nothing to do with Iraq and the reality is that our focus in Iraq has allowed Al Qaeda free reign to re-group and Afghanistan is on the verge of imploding.


Quote:

I honor his service in Vietnam. I think a man who knows what it is like to fight in a war is a good person to have as commander-in-chief. John Kerry is a good man. But what else is there?

Last time I checked, Sen. John Kerry was 60 years old. But to listen to his speech last night at the Democratic National Convention, you would think he was still in his 20s.


I don't know what this means. Seemed a bit back handed and petty.

Quote:
He opened up his talk with a lengthy and evocative description of his childhood and what it was like growing up in divided Berlin. He told us of the "goose bumps" he remembers getting when the band struck up "Stars and Stripes Forever."



OMG the brute! At least he didn't plop down thousands of dollars for a ranch prior to the election so he could stand in front of it and pretend he was a real "cowboy"
Quote:

Then, after this long rendition of his childhood, he tells us at length what it was like to serve in Vietnam for the four months that he was there. So far, so good.

But then he spent only about one minute talking about what he has done since.



I guess his 20 years in office threw Dick.


Quote:
Beyond a brief allusion to his efforts for crime victims and to prosecute crimes against women as an assistant district attorney, his support for Clinton's plan for extra cops and a balanced budget and a reference to his work with John McCain on the POW and MIA issue in Vietnam, that's it.


What did Bush have? failed oil business? Gov of a state where he was bascially a figure head? Gov of a state that had the highest drop out rate, highest pollution, highest population of poor with no health care, lowest paid teachers.........oh yeah Bush's record was worth touting.

Quote:
What did this man do as an adult? What happened during his service as Michael Dukakis' lieutenant-governor in Massachusetts and in his 20 years in the United States Senate?

What bills did he introduce? What initiatives did he sponsor? Which investigations did he lead? What amendments bear his name? What great debates did he participate in?


He did have a certain amount of time you know? LOL If he had covered every single action he had taken since coming home from Vietnam he would still be up there talking.

Quote:
What did he do for his constituents in Massachusetts? What businesses did he persuade to come to the Bay State? Which elderly did he help get their Social Security benefits? What injustices did he correct?


He's running for President I think people are more interested in what he will do as President. If they want to know what he has done in his past there is a neat little thing called the internet that has all that.

Quote:
Kerry's biography ends at 24.


Again what does this mean?

Quote:
America does not want to elect a lieutenant to the presidency. The voters want a commander-in-chief, but there is precious little in the autobiography of John Kerry, as we heard it last night, to commend him to us.



Laughing This is funny, they want a Commander in Chief which is supposed to be a failed oil man, from a rich family who never worked a hard day in his life and who was made Gov in a state in which he actually served a total of 145 days on top of that he failed to live up to his ANG service and deserted? This is what Dick see's a Commader rather then a man who actually was ducking bullets and leading men? and you still claim the man isn't a hack?

Quote:



Stupid and meaningless.

Quote:
John Kerry? Oh yeah, he's the guy who fought in Vietnam and then he ran for president. That's not enough. Where did his 20 years in the Senate go
?

Didn't he just go through this? repeating the drivial doesn't make it any more paltable. Again his opinion not an actual fact and the bagel thing makes as much sense as Bush's electric vampire analogy.


Quote:
Oddly, his absence of biography confirms the impression I formed of him during my White House years: He's a back-bencher. I never can recall a single time that his name came up in any discussion of White House strategy on anything. He was the man who wasn't there. We were always figuring out how to deal with Ted Kennedy or Pat Moynihan or Tom Daschle or Phil Gramm, or Al D'Amato or Bob Dole or Jesse Helms or Orin Hatch or Joe Biden. But nobody every asked about John Kerry.


Dick fails to make any case then sums it up by putting forth his reality on the manner as though it's a fact. Again Brandon FACT doesn't = OPINION

Quote:

He wasn't much there then, and he's not much there now. Only now he wants us to trust him to be president.


Rolling Eyes Bush 145 days total as Gov.

Failed to fullfill his ANG duty

Never had a successful business

Was part of a land fraud deal with his Baseball adventure


Really Brandon you think anything put forth in this article was worthy of real "argument"? It was Ann Coulter as the man she actually is and just another example of empty points made by a man who is trying awfully hard to make a buck off you suckers who buy this load of crap.
0 Replies
 
Sagamore
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 01:30 pm
Redheat brilliantly dissects another righty!

Bravo!!!!
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 01:41 pm
That's brilliant? You must have low standards.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 01:47 pm
Redheat wrote:
THE BAGEL CANDIDACY
By Dick Morris

Quote:


Again nothing thus far has shown that we "had" to be there. It was an elective adventure because Iraq neither threatened us or our allies, it was PRE EMPTIVE therefore "elective" in nature. Afghanistan has nothing to do with Iraq and the reality is that our focus in Iraq has allowed Al Qaeda free reign to re-group and Afghanistan is on the verge of imploding.

Wrong. Iraq had a long history of seeking to acquire WMD, concealing the weapons and the development programs, and lying about it. It had used WMD. There was no question that Iraq had had the weapons and development programs. The only question was how recently. We had spent a dozen years trying to get it to disarm, as it had agreed to do, and many people felt that the totality of the history pointed to a significant likelihood that it was still hiding WMD and/or WMD programs. A single use of one WMD inside a western city might kill up to a million people, which makes them a threat almost unparalleled in history. Someone like Hussein could not be allowed to possess them. We acted to eliminate the likely danger. Whether you agree with this reasoning or not, the motive was to prevent a WMD 9/11 down the road.


Redheat wrote:
Quote:
Beyond a brief allusion to his efforts for crime victims and to prosecute crimes against women as an assistant district attorney, his support for Clinton's plan for extra cops and a balanced budget and a reference to his work with John McCain on the POW and MIA issue in Vietnam, that's it.


What did Bush have? failed oil business? Gov of a state where he was bascially a figure head? Gov of a state that had the highest drop out rate, highest pollution, highest population of poor with no health care, lowest paid teachers.........oh yeah Bush's record was worth touting.

Saying something bad about Bush doesn't disprove a charge against Kerry.


Redheat wrote:
Quote:
What did this man do as an adult? What happened during his service as Michael Dukakis' lieutenant-governor in Massachusetts and in his 20 years in the United States Senate?

What bills did he introduce? What initiatives did he sponsor? Which investigations did he lead? What amendments bear his name? What great debates did he participate in?


He did have a certain amount of time you know? LOL If he had covered every single action he had taken since coming home from Vietnam he would still be up there talking.

Still, the question remains. Suppose you sketch out for us some of Kerry's great accomplishments in the Senate.

Redheat wrote:
Quote:

He wasn't much there then, and he's not much there now. Only now he wants us to trust him to be president.


...Failed to fullfill his ANG duty...

Really? Prove it.
0 Replies
 
Redheat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 02:08 pm
Quote:
Wrong. Iraq had a long history of seeking to acquire WMD, concealing the weapons and the development programs, and lying about it. It had used WMD. There was no question that Iraq had had the weapons and development programs. The only question was how recently. We had spent a dozen years trying to get it to disarm, as it had agreed to do, and many people felt that the totality of the history pointed to a significant likelihood that it was still hiding WMD and/or WMD programs. A single use of one WMD inside a western city might kill up to a million people, which makes them a threat almost unparalleled in history. Someone like Hussein could not be allowed to possess them. We acted to eliminate the likely danger. Whether you agree with this reasoning or not, the motive was to prevent a WMD 9/11 down the road.


A long history? really? We are the ones who SOLD them WMD, supported them and helped them in the 80's. That was only 20 years ago. Then we had the first Gulf war in the early 90's. Which resulted in inspectors being inside Iraq until 1998. so here does the "long" history come in? As far as I know since the FIRST GULF WAR and his containment, no WMD have been produced. As recent as 1998 we have bombed what was left of anything resembling a possible weapons plant. What you are trying to claim is that we went to war on "possibilities" not certainies. You don't think inspections and containment which resulted in his not developing WMD could have worked a bit longer since he proved no threat? No Saddam should not possess them no one should. However he was the least of our worries and now that we have drained much of our assests in Iraq other countries who actually DO have WMD and HAVE SOLD them are free to continue. Trying to place 9.11 at the feet of Iraq is so dishonest you would think you would be ashamed to keep walking down that path.



Quote:
Saying something bad about Bush doesn't disprove a charge against Kerry
.

Maybe not but it goes to show the pure hypocrisy of Dick Morris not to mention he doesn't actually back up any of his assertions with actual facts.



Quote:
Still, the question remains. Suppose you sketch out for us some of Kerry's great accomplishments in the Senate.


Thats not my job. See if Dick Morris is making the claims then it's his job to sketch out Kerry's failures to accomplish anything. Not to mention if you are going to use this as a motive for NOT voting for Kerry then that makes Bush's "accomplishments" relevant. So if Kerry hasn't accomplished anything and Bush accomplished even less how does that make Kerry the worst of the two? Dick's contention is that Kerry lacks the ability over Bush to lead because________. What I'm pointing out is that Bush lacked far less of an successful life and his creditentials are not being questioned. If you want to compare accomplishments and THEN make the claim that Kerry's are inferior then do so. To just claim it without supporting it is just the usual Rush like rhetoric.


Quote:
Really? Prove it.


Hasn't that all ready been proven time and time again? How much more proof do you need? If you are going to completely ignore facts it's no wonder you find something like the piece of **** written by Dick Morris as valid basis for "argument"

Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Karzak
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 02:23 pm
Redheat wrote:

A long history? really? We are the ones who SOLD them WMD


Still telling this same BS story?
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 02:52 pm
Redheat wrote:
Quote:
Wrong. Iraq had a long history of seeking to acquire WMD, concealing the weapons and the development programs, and lying about it. It had used WMD. There was no question that Iraq had had the weapons and development programs. The only question was how recently. We had spent a dozen years trying to get it to disarm, as it had agreed to do, and many people felt that the totality of the history pointed to a significant likelihood that it was still hiding WMD and/or WMD programs. A single use of one WMD inside a western city might kill up to a million people, which makes them a threat almost unparalleled in history. Someone like Hussein could not be allowed to possess them. We acted to eliminate the likely danger. Whether you agree with this reasoning or not, the motive was to prevent a WMD 9/11 down the road.


A long history? really? We are the ones who SOLD them WMD, supported them and helped them in the 80's. That was only 20 years ago.

A lethal danger is still a danger regardless of how it came into existence. Lethal dangers must be dealt with regardless of their origins.

Redheat wrote:
Then we had the first Gulf war in the early 90's. Which resulted in inspectors being inside Iraq until 1998. so here does the "long" history come in?

A dozen years is rather a long time to wait for someone to fullfill a promise to disarm. The point is that Iraq had a history of seeking WMD.

Redheat wrote:
As far as I know since the FIRST GULF WAR and his containment, no WMD have been produced. As recent as 1998 we have bombed what was left of anything resembling a possible weapons plant.

Neither you nor anyone else can show that no WMD have been produced since the first Gulf War, even now with the benefit of post-invasion hindsight, which we did not possess when we invaded. It is impossible to "contain" someone who has the option of sending an agent to sneak a WMD into your country and killing a huge number of people with that single weapon.


Redheat wrote:
What you are trying to claim is that we went to war on "possibilities" not certainies.

In an age when your 100% certainly might come in the form of a mushroom cloud rising over what used to be Washington, DC, or a report on the morning news of a mysterious deadly plague breaking out in New York City and starting to spread to the rest of the country, we can no longer wait for utter certainty

Redheat wrote:
You don't think inspections and containment which resulted in his not developing WMD could have worked a bit longer since he proved no threat?

1. No containment when one weapon smuggled into your country could kill a million people.
2. Even after the invasion, we're not sure that WMD were never developed after the first Gulf War, and certainly weren't convinced of it based on the information we had when we invaded.
3. I disagree that he proved no threat.

Redheat wrote:
No Saddam should not possess them no one should.

Yes, maybe in some future utopia no one will possess WMD, but men like Hussein, really shouldn't have them.

Redheat wrote:
However he was the least of our worries and...

If he had possessed WMD, and was working to build and develop more, he would have been a huge threat. That's rather the point of the invasion.

Redheat wrote:
...now that we have drained much of our assests in Iraq other countries who actually DO have WMD and HAVE SOLD them are free to continue.

If several particularly noxious dictatorships are acquiring WMD, they are all threats and all must be dealt with.

Redheat wrote:
Trying to place 9.11 at the feet of Iraq is so dishonest you would think you would be ashamed to keep walking down that path.

Show me where I said that Iraq helped to plan 9/11. I was talking about a future danger from WMD.

Redheat wrote:
Quote:
Saying something bad about Bush doesn't disprove a charge against Kerry
.

Maybe not but it goes to show the pure hypocrisy of Dick Morris not to mention he doesn't actually back up any of his assertions with actual facts.

What kind of evidence do you want him to show to support his assertion that Kerry hasn't done much important in the Senate? You seem awfully reluctant to cite a few examples of Kerry's achievements.

Redheat wrote:
Quote:
Still, the question remains. Suppose you sketch out for us some of Kerry's great accomplishments in the Senate.


Thats not my job. See if Dick Morris is making the claims then it's his job to sketch out Kerry's failures to accomplish anything. Not to mention if you are going to use this as a motive for NOT voting for Kerry then that makes Bush's "accomplishments" relevant. So if Kerry hasn't accomplished anything and Bush accomplished even less how does that make Kerry the worst of the two? Dick's contention is that Kerry lacks the ability over Bush to lead because________. What I'm pointing out is that Bush lacked far less of an successful life and his creditentials are not being questioned. If you want to compare accomplishments and THEN make the claim that Kerry's are inferior then do so. To just claim it without supporting it is just the usual Rush like rhetoric.

How can one sketch out a senator's failure to do much of significance? Humor us and cite a few examples to disprove Morris's very clear claim.

Redheat wrote:
Quote:
Really? Prove it.


Hasn't that all ready been proven time and time again? How much more proof do you need? If you are going to completely ignore facts it's no wonder you find something like the piece of **** written by Dick Morris as valid basis for "argument"
Rolling Eyes

Half the country believes that it has never been proven even once. If you are making a charge that Bush failed to fulfill his military duties, which is a very serious charge, then you need to provide a few scraps of evidence.
0 Replies
 
 

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