"as they do"? "as who do"?

Forums: English, Esl, Grammar, English As A Second Language
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Context:

In talking about the good consequences that your beliefs have on human morality, you are following the example of religious liberals and religious moderates. Rather than say that they believe in God because certain biblical prophecies have come true, or because the miracles recounted in the Gospels are convincing, liberals and moderates tend to talk in terms of the good consequences of believing as they do. Such believers often say that they believe in God because this "gives their lives meaning." When a tsunami killed a few hundred thousand people on the day after Christmas, 2004, many conservative Christians viewed the cataclysm
as evidence of God's wrath. God was apparently sending another coded message about the
evils of abortion, idolatry, and homosexuality. While I consider this interpretation of events to
be utterly repellent, it at least has the virtue of being reasonable, given a certain set of assumptions.

-Sam Harris

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Type: Question • Score: 4 • Views: 562 • Replies: 15

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View best answer, chosen by oristarA

@oristarA,

Libs and Mods, I think, Ori

1 Reply

@oristarA,

Quote:

believing as they do.

Quote:

"as who do"?

those doing the believing.

Is this context, yeah, what Dale done said.

1 Reply

@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

Libs and Mods, I think, Ori

Thanks.
But what does "do" mean in "as they do"?

2 Replies

@oristarA,

Quote:

But what does "do" mean in "as they do"?

It means "believe."

0 Replies

@oristarA,

oristarA wrote:

But what does "do" mean in "as they do"?

Quote:

tend to talk in terms of the good consequences of believing

1 Reply

"As they do" refers to the act preceding "as" and roughly means "in that way".

Liberals and moderates tend to talk in terms of the good consequences of believing as they do.

People who drink and fight a lot may be uncaring of the bad consequences of behaving as they do.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Quote:

tend to talk in terms of the good consequences of believing

I don't see it that way. What is "means" is "believe." You're giving the content of that belief, which is important, but it is not what "do" means.

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@layman,

Quote:

what Dale done said

Tanks a bili, Lay

0 Replies

@Tes yeux noirs,

Quote:

"As they do" refers to the act preceding "as" and roughly means "in that way".

Liberals and moderates tend to talk in terms of the good consequences of believing as they do.

People who drink and fight a lot may be uncaring of the bad consequences of behaving as they do.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying they mean

1. believing as they believe, and

2. behaving as they behave.

If so, I agree.

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Loving Mary as I do, I cannot bring myself to send her away.

Hating heights as I do, I will not go near the cliff edge.

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@layman,

layman wrote:

Quote:
"As they do" refers to the act preceding "as" and roughly means "in that way".

Liberals and moderates tend to talk in terms of the good consequences of believing as they do.

People who drink and fight a lot may be uncaring of the bad consequences of behaving as they do.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying they mean

1. believing as they believe, and

2. behaving as they behave.

If so, I agree.

That was what I got before posting this thread.

I thought that was a tautology, so I decided to put the problem here.

Is it an emphasis by repeating?

1 Reply

@oristarA,

Quote:

Is it an emphasis by repeating?

No, I don't think it's for emphasis. It does serve to avoid the appearance of redundancy, I guess.

Let me look at the original text again. I'm sure it could be expressed in some different way....OK, here it is:

Quote:

Rather than say that they believe in God because certain biblical prophecies have come true, or because the miracles recounted in the Gospels are convincing, liberals and moderates tend to talk in terms of the good consequences of believing as they do.

1. Liberals don't base their belief in God on miracles, etc.
2. They base it on "good consequences"...now what? Let me go back for more....

OK, here's the next sentence:

Quote:

Such believers often say that they believe in God because this "gives their lives meaning."

So, ultimately, the claim he is making is that they believe in God because it benefits them to do so.

Now, back to the question about the phrasing.

Instead of saying "as they do," he could have said "that God exists," I suppose.

That would have made it more explicit, but would also be somewhat redundant, because he has already said that they believe in God:

Quote:

Rather than say that they believe in God because

I just see it as a way to avoid repeated words and of using "shortcuts" that involve shorter words, I guess. He's also holding the claim about "why" they believe in suspense for the moment. That comes in the next sentence.

1 Reply

@layman,

Looking at it again, I really don't think that the phrase "as they do" is even necessary. He could have just stopped at the word "believing," and ended it there without changing the meaning, the way I see it. It would have been more concise that way.

As usual, you ask good questions, Oris.

1 Reply

@layman,

layman wrote:

Looking at it again, I really don't think that the phrase "as they do" is even necessary. He could have just stopped at the word "believing," and ended it there without changing the meaning, the way I see it. It would have been more concise that way.

As usual, you ask good questions, Oris.

That is exactly what I thought in my mind before posting. Because the expression "as they do" itself was vague I had to get it word by word. It is also due to the author, whose writing has been highly praised by Oxford professor Richard Dawkins, that I have had to be careful to treat his phrasings.

Thank you all.

0 Replies

It's a way of referring to "believe" without repeating the word.

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"as they do"? "as who do"?

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