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Can anyone help translate a phrase into Ancient Greek ?

 
 
FEL
 
Reply Sat 24 Jul, 2004 08:29 pm
I am looking to translate a phrase(s) into Ancient Greek.

"cat eyed" OR "yellow eyed"

I have found out that "eyed" is translated into "ophthalmos", as in "monophthalmos" (one-eyed).

But have not been able to translate "cat" OR "yellow".

Thanx.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 8,396 • Replies: 33
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FEL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 08:40 am
Can anyone help with this translation ??
totos571
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Oct, 2004 04:38 pm
i'm not sure at all but i've tried Smile :
yellow eyed: ο έχων ωχρούς οφθαλμούς (o ehon ohroos ofthalmoos)
cat eyed: ο έχων οφθαλμούς γαλής (ο ehon ofthalmoos galees)
(single o like o in roll, oo like oo in too)

but i'm sure for modern greek:
yellow eyed:κιτρινομάτης
cat eyed:αυτός που έχει μάτια γάτας
0 Replies
 
Lucifer
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2004 07:45 pm
"xanth" is the base for yellow.
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HofT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2004 08:00 pm
The word you're looking for in Ancient Greek would be
chrysopis

from

chrys- the root word for gold and yellow
and
-opis vz. vo-opis as applied to the goddess Athena in Homer

Btw, the Greeks loved their dogs and horses, but kept no cats, whence the reference to "The Glory that was Greece" - that last one was a joke <G>
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 02:29 pm
τὸν δ' αυτε προσέειπε θεὰ γλαυκωπις Αθήνη:

On the off chance the original poster is still around, this is book 1 of the Iliad, the "glaucopis" (bright-eyed) goddess Athena addressing Achilles.
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 02:37 pm
τὸν δ' αυτε προσέειπε θεὰ γλαυκωπις Αθήνη:
ηλθον εγὼ παύσουσα τὸ σὸν μένος, αί κε πίθηαι,
ουρανόθεν: πρὸ δέ μ' ηκε θεὰ λευκώλενος ́Ηρη
άμφω ομως θυμω φιλέουσά τε κηδομένη τε:
210
αλλ' άγε ληγ' έριδος, μηδὲ ξίφος ελκεο χειρί:
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 02:39 pm
P.S. Above is the entire relevant passage; the first verse is number 206, and can be found here:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0133;query=card%3D%237;layout=;loc=1.172

using unicode for the Greek font.
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HofT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 03:03 pm
OK, final: golden-eyed or yellow-eyed (not found in Homer) would be:

χρυσωπις

here in the feminine form of the adjective.
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HofT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 06:04 pm
...forgot example of "vo-opis", here from book 20, in verse 309 - sorry have no time to reformat text:

τὸν δ' ἠμείβετ' ἔπειτα βοω̂πις πότνια ̔́Ηρη:
310
ἐννοσίγαι', αὐτὸς σὺ μετὰ φρεσὶ σῃ̂σι νόησον
Αἰνείαν ἤ κέν μιν ἐρύσσεαι ἠ̂ κεν ἐάσῃς
Πηλεί̈δῃ ̓Αχιλη̂ϊ δαμήμεναι, ἐσθλὸν ἐόντα.
ἤτοι μὲν γὰρ νω̂ϊ πολέας ὠμόσσαμεν ὅρκους
πα̂σι μετ' ἀθανάτοισιν ἐγὼ καὶ Παλλὰς ̓Αθήνη
315
μή ποτ' ἐπὶ Τρώεσσιν ἀλεξήσειν κακὸν ἠ̂μαρ,
μηδ' ὁπότ' ἂν Τροίη μαλερῳ̂ πυρὶ πα̂σα δάηται
καιομένη, καίωσι δ' ἀρήϊοι υἱ̂ες ̓Αχαιω̂ν.
0 Replies
 
Aris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2004 05:46 am
From what I understand, you want to translate "cat eyed". Well, in ancient Greek, the ancient Greeks did not say it in the same manner as "yellow eyed" because that is specific whereas cat eyed is a nuance as to how the other person's eyes look or are looking at you. So it's not similar to the way "yellow eyed" is constructed as a word (I know I am not explaining the grammatical aspect properly but that's because my English in that sense is not that hot Smile )

So anyway, an eye in ancient Greek is "ομμα" and the plural form is "ομματα", with a dasia and oxia above the "o".

I hope the Greek letters are coming up OK on your screen because I've never tried the forums' international character set. Maybe it looks fine to me while it's coming up garbage on yours. If so, let me know.

Then we have, as mentioned previously, "cat" being "γαλη" and "cat's" being "γαλης" with a perispomeni over the ita.

So "cat's eyes" is "ομματα γαλης".

It is not said "cat eyed", it is said "..has cat's eyes" or "..with cat's eyes".

This was a common and frequently used saying in ancient Greek, by the way.

I hope this helps Very Happy
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2004 06:14 am
Your characters come up just fine on my screen, but I'm a bit puzzled about the translation; can you link to an ancient Greek text using it?

Note: you don't need an international character set for the Greek letters, it's in the original font because these are the same characters we use in mathematics. Additional math symbols (integrals, infinities, etc) do need another font but not the letters themselves.
0 Replies
 
Aris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2004 07:18 am
HofT, perhaps you are puzzled because Homeric Greek was protogenic and ασυναιρετα. Classical ancient Greek, such as Xenofon spoke, would have "light=φως" whereas Homer called it "φαως", for eg. "Φαως" is ασυναιρετο, in other words you have an "α" and an "ω". Later on, ancient Greeks made such words συνειρημενες, in other words dropping two consecutive vowels because it was considered κακοφωνια. Thus, Homeric Greek is ασυναιρετα whereas classical ancient Greek is συνεiρημενα. There is no doubt whatsoever, though, that "has cat's eyes" is "ομματα δικην γαλης".

When we studied the Iliad in high school, we would curse like sailors Smile because it was almost incomprehensible, compared to the evolved ancient Greek that Xenofon for eg spoke.

Thanks for the info regarding character sets Very Happy

I don't have ancient Greek text readily available, but you can see the use of ομμα in something like this "'κατα δε τους παροξυσμους διακρατειν δει παντα τα μερη, ωσπερ και τους περιοδικως ριγουντας, και των μελων εκαστον λιπαραις ταις χερσιν απευθυνειν μετα συμμετρου συντονιας μαλασσοντας τα τε ομματα αυτων ησυχη και καταψυχοντας, ετι τε φλεβοτομειν αυτους κατα τον καιρον τουτον"

Again, I will point out that Homeric Greek differs from συνειρημενα ancient Greek.

Have I helped or confused the issue even more?
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2004 07:50 am
The link to the Perseus database was posted on the previous page. To get the Greek character set click on "configure display" and choose "Unicode UTF8" which is supported by all browsers.

I have no argument with the evolution of the language in the 5 centuries separating Homer from Xenophon, and in the next 5 centuries separating Xenophon from Polybius, nor do I doubt your translation. It's just that on the Perseus database the first reference to "cat" I can find is in Polybius, a thousand years after Homer and two thousand years before us.

Generally, it's dazzling to me - considering the relatively brief history of the United States - that the Greeks of today still write the same way and can read texts from 3,000 years ago! For the record, I'm a mathematician, not a classicist, but since I knew the alphabet for math anyway I decided to learn a bit about the texts, too.
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HofT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2004 09:02 am
Quick new link - pls see above if Greek characters don't immediately come up on your display - to Xenophon, Anabasis:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0201
0 Replies
 
Aris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2004 09:02 am
HofT wrote:
The link to the Perseus database was posted on the previous page. To get the Greek character set click on "configure display" and choose "Unicode UTF8" which is supported by all browsers.

I will check it out, thanx Smile

HofT wrote:
I have no argument with the evolution of the language in the 5 centuries separating Homer from Xenophon, and in the next 5 centuries separating Xenophon from Polybius, nor do I doubt your translation. It's just that on the Perseus database the first reference to "cat" I can find is in Polybius, a thousand years after Homer and two thousand years before us.

Ah, I see. Tell you what, because I'm still fuzzy on your angle. Why do you want "cat eyed" translated? What is the intent? Are you reading Homer and believe he is referring to "cat eyed" but cannot confirm it? Are you trying to write ancient Greek of your own? I'm just guessing here, so what is your aim, so maybe I can be of more help?

HofT wrote:
Generally, it's dazzling to me - considering the relatively brief history of the United States - that the Greeks of today still write the same way and can read texts from 3,000 years ago! For the record, I'm a mathematician, not a classicist, but since I knew the alphabet for math anyway I decided to learn a bit about the texts, too.

Us Greeks can surely read and write texts from 3,000 years ago as the language may have evolved and gotten diluted but still retains much of its core, but I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir right now; you probably have a better grasp on some ancient Greek stuff than I do. Bear in mind, though, that even though ancient Greek is mandatory all the way up to grade 11, untranslated, no less, in high school grades, most of us slowly forget how to speak pure ancient Greek. It's not like we walk around talking like Solon Laughing

Your knowledge on Greece and the Balkans (other thread) is very impressive. You say you are a mathematician and from learning the alphabet for math, you wanted to learn about the texts too. Not only is this impressive but also flattering for us Greeks to see foreigners like yourself appreciating our language and texts and studying them.

I had received an email from a friend a while ago that I would like to share with you:

"Πρόγραμμα εκμάθησης της ελληνικής γλώσσας άρχισε να διανέμει παγκοσμίως το CNN, το οποίο, σε πρώτο στάδιο, απευθύνεται σε αγγλόφωνους και ισπανόφωνους. Tο πρόγραμμα ονομάζεται «Hellenic Quest». H μέθοδος διδασκαλίας του στηρίζεται στην προβολή πληροφοριών στην οθόνη του ηλεκτρονικού υπολογιστή με ταυτόχρονη μετάδοση ήχου και κινούμενης εικόνας.

Tο ενδιαφέρον για τη γλώσσα μας προέκυψε από τη διαπίστωση των επιστημόνων πληροφορικής και υπολογιστών ότι οι H/Y προχωρημένης τεχνολογίας δέχονται ως «νοηματική» γλώσσα μόνο την ελληνική. Oλες τις άλλες γλώσσες τις χαρακτήρισαν σημειολογικές. «Nοηματική» θεωρείται η γλώσσα στην οποία το «σημαίνον», δηλαδή αυτό που οι λέξεις εκφράζουν (πράγμα, ιδέα, κατάσταση), έχουν μεταξύ τους πρωτογενή σχέση.

Tην αποθησαύριση του πλούτου της ελληνικής γλώσσας ανέλαβε το Πανεπιστήμιο Iρβάιν της Kαλιφόρνια. Eπικεφαλής του προγράμματος τοποθετήθηκαν η γλωσσολόγος - ελληνίστρια Mακ Nτόναλι και οι καθηγητές της ηλεκτρονικής Mπρούνερ και Πάκαρι. Tο πρόγραμμα παράγεται από την «Apple».

Στον Η/Υ «Iβυκο» αποθησαυρίστηκαν 6 εκατ. λεκτικοί τύποι της γλώσσας μας, όταν η αγγλική έχει συνολικά 490.000 λέξεις και 300.000 τεχνικούς όρους, δηλαδή ως γλώσσα είναι μόλις το ένα εκατοστό της δικής μας. Στον «Iβυκο» ταξινομήθηκαν 8.000 συγγράμματα από 4.000 αρχαίους Eλληνες συγγραφείς και το έργο συνεχίζεται. Oι υπεύθυνοι του προγράμματος υπολογίζουν ότι οι ελληνικοί λεκτικοί τύποι θα φτάσουν στα 90 εκατ., έναντι 9 εκατ. της λατινικής. Tα πιο εξελιγμένα προγράμματα («Iβυκος», «Γνώσεις» και «Nεύτων») αναπαριστούν τους λεκτικούς τύπους της ελληνικής σε ολοκληρώματα και σε τέλεια σχήματα παραστατικής, κάτι που αδυνατούν να κάνουν για τις άλλες γλώσσες. Kι αυτό συμβαίνει διότι η ελληνική έχει μαθηματική δομή που επιτρέπει την αρμονική γεωμετρική τους απεικόνιση. Νέες επιστήμες όπως η Hλεκτρονική, η Kυβερνητική
βρίσκουν μόνο στην ελληνική γλώσσα τις νοητικές εκφράσεις που χρειάζονται, χωρίς τις οποίες η επιστημονική σκέψη αδυνατεί να προχωρήσει."

If you cannot understand parts of it, I would be happy to translate it for you. Basically, if you have any comments on this I would love to hear them.

Out of curiosity, how old are you, tell me a bit about yourself; you seem most educated and a very nice person. You mentioned having East Prussian heritage in the other thread and MOU said you are Bulgarian but your command of English is excellent.

I'm 34 and an IT systems analyst. My parents had migrated to Toronto, Canada back in '69 during the Papadopoulos junta so I was born and raised there until grade 5 (which explains my English) but we came over every summer and then repatriated back in 1980. After finishing grades 6-11 here in Greece, I was back in Canada for university and then right back to Athens where I've lived ever since.
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2004 09:14 am
Sorry, will have to work on that text as modern Greek (3,000 years on!) is very difficult for me. Nobody said I was Bulgarian anywhere, our friend on the other thread was just wondering why I had a view on Macedonia until I explained my interest.

Btw, I'm not the original poster, and have no idea why he was looking for that translation - maybe the other people here can tell you.
0 Replies
 
Aris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2004 09:33 am
HofT wrote:
Sorry, will have to work on that text as modern Greek (3,000 years on!) is very difficult for me. Nobody said I was Bulgarian anywhere, our friend on the other thread was just wondering why I had a view on Macedonia until I explained my interest.

Btw, I'm not the original poster, and have no idea why he was looking for that translation - maybe the other people here can tell you.

Oh, sorry. My apologies x2

You were the one that asked me for translation assistance and I thus got confused Rolling Eyes

I did not mean to assume anything about your background nor was trying to be nosy. I was just curious and interested for the reasons I stated Smile
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2004 09:35 am
OK, I managed to understand just enough to get to the site:
http://www.tlg.uci.edu/

but my browser (with only the standard math fonts in addition to ASCII characters) can't read the Greek texts there. Since I'm travelling and have a firewall which won't let me download anything I can't install new fonts now, will look at the site again when I'm back. I also can't post easily on public sites so pls excuse me if I don't reply to questions for a while.
0 Replies
 
Aris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2004 09:35 am
HofT wrote:
Sorry, will have to work on that text as modern Greek (3,000 years on!) is very difficult for me.

Please do not go to such lengths on my account. I will translate it for you when I have a bit of time later on, only asking for some insight or thoughts of yours on it since you are a mathematician that dabbles in the Greek language.
0 Replies
 
 

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