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Issue with girlfriend and parents

 
 
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2004 03:01 pm
Hi,

I have been dating a girl since February, we met online, she's American, I am from Europe and I went to see her in March and May. Things were going smooth, there weren't any major issues until we hit a major hitch, related to my parents and my upbringing.

My upbringing hasn't been as good as I've wanted to tell myself, maybe I've been in denial or maybe just incapable of grasping the complications of what has happened. What has taken place is abuse, beating as well as verbal. Our mother has beaten and made us (me and my sole brother at that time) subject to twisted treatment, she put us on the floor and walked on us. I believe this happened once or twice.

Also, our father has at least once (all that I can remember) beaten us, put us on the floor, and beaten our bottoms with a flat hand.
Besides this abuse, my parents have also when losing their temper said hurtful and obnoxious things to us.

From originally having accepted these things as natural, as taking place in any family, I've slowly, over the months come to accept that my parents' behavior has been abusive.

Ever since I told my girlfriend about these things she's been very clear that she believes I should cut all contact to my parents, it would also mean a partial break with my brothers. One of whom still lives with them (age 16) and one who is 21 and has moved out but hasn't stepped away like I have.

All this has been extremely emotionally pressing for me. I do understand her point of view and even worse is that I've felt that I've had to make a choice, between her or them. The last few months have been hell for me.

What also must be understood is that even though my parents have done these things, it's in the far past, and they have as long as I can remember supported and helped me. I believe they sincerely look out for what's best for me and my siblings. They admit their mistakes, they seem truly shook by them and they know they can't undo them or even expect forgiveness. Despite what they have done and who they are I feel that I find it meaningful to spend time with them and they aren't bad people, they aren't selfish, arrogant, narcissistic or abusive. But they have temper, they can fight over small things. They can be very cruel and hurtful if angry even if I haven't had to suffer that for a very long time. Maybe things have changed or the years or it is a result of me being an adult, not spending as much time with them as I used to. I am nowadays treated with respect, maybe because they're very afraid of me turning them my back. I don't know.
I also feel that even if I don't depend on them, I'm having my own personal life apart from them, they act in my interest and wouldn't put themselves before me.

Their marriage hasn't been the best either, for as long as I can remember they have been fighting, usually every day. I have grown up in a rather aggresive environment and it has shaped me and this is what frightens me the most. My behavior is very much like theirs, I'm easily feeling cornered or hurt and I'm usually very quick to respond. I do not fight, but I'm verbal. My girlfriend, who is not shy with words and who isn't very diplomatic when it comes to telling people who they are, have taken much verbal beating. I haven't called her words but I've turned things against her. It's been enforced by the fact that she like me doesn't take much **** and is often dramatic, we've been like water and fire. It's been a very emotionally difficult time for the both of us.

In my fear that I'll one day develop a behavior like my parents', to one day verbally and physically abuse my family and partner, maybe not repeatedly, but one time is one time too many, I've sough help with a therapist. In all my dealings with therapists I've had problems communicating these fears.

My now ex-girlfriend, even if we've tried to patch things up recently, has told me that unless I break contact with my parents I will one day beat my own future children, become just like them.

I have have been changing opinion on the matter, one of the things she couldn't stand, I've been ambivalent, from total agreement with her to believing that my parents are alright. It has been extremely difficult to know what to do, to do the right thing though now I feel however that I've reached some kind of conclusion.

I would like to remain in touch with my parents, after having talked to them, very much, I believe they act in my interest and are sincere in their interest to sort things out. The past cannot be undone, there's no point in reliving it but to move and I'm hoping they can accept what they've done for what it is and maybe put an end to it. I want to put my younger brother out of harm's way as soon as possible as he still lived in their house.

Following her advice I didn't talk to them for over three months. I can't say it caused me harm being away from them but I was reminded of my family every day and it felt like a great sadness to have them out of my life.

I also know that I'm probably naive, my ex has been telling me that they cannot change or see things for what they are, she says I need to think of what is best for me and cut them away. This has been extremely difficult for me to accept, because I feel that I have something meaningful with them. It doesn't feel right to cut them away, I can't say that they deserve to have children, they've failed as parents but people fail. I want to be a forgiving person and yesterday I decided to try to keep them in life, yet limit their role in it, and be to them as an equal adult, recognizing their qualities as well as their shortcomings staying at a safe distance. Maybe I can't, maybe you either know them or you don't, as I've been told.

I know my mother is unstable, probably is unhealthily dependent on other people to function. I believe both my parents are mutually dependent on each other, the main reason for their marriage to still be. I also believe that this dependence is my they rather made me and my siblings live through their fights rather then file for a divorce.

I can recognize all this, I can see it for what it is. I can without a doubt say that I never want to turn into anything like that.

Seeing them, I can't look at them like I did, when I was blissfully ignorant, or in denial, I know what they are, what they have done but I also recognize their desire and capability to do me well. I hope that I can lead a healthy life, not following their path and bringing the same onto my future children without totally breaking with them.

As it is now, my ex calls me weak, she cannot be with me as long as I do not break with my parents. As I said, we have been trying to patch things up but this is an obstacle we can't get past.
I've told her she would never have to see them and I'm also very aware of how my upbringing has shaped me, always afraid she'll suffer from it. I'm also seeing a therapist to deal with my own shortcomings and I try to be aware of who I am and what I do.

I have been hoping that she would understand that I have to do things my way and that if she loves me, she will respect my decisions and support me but she says she cannot respect someone who is weak like me. It saddens me very much and I hope I have done the right thing. If she cannot stand by my side through this I cannot have a future with her. That's what I think. I have to do what I feel is right, if it means losing her then it's something I have to accept.

There's much else to say about this, I've tried to be brief. If anyone out there has been through something similar or feel they have thoughts or experienced to share, please do.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,145 • Replies: 38
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2004 03:43 pm
I'd say your "ex" should remain exactly that. It's nice of her to offer to play amateur shrink and diagnose people on another continent that she's never even met but I wouldn't take anything she has to say on the matter as being worth much.

Sounds a bit controlling to me.
0 Replies
 
random sunspots
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2004 04:07 pm
Thanks for posting.

Yes, she is a bit controlling. Although she has similar experiences herself, and also knowledge in the field, which I believe are the main reasons why she is so involved. She is very emotionally involved, she cried when I told her I saw my parents again.
She's never told me that I had to it for her sake, it must be for my own good, as she sees it, but telling me she can't respect my decision is the same as serving me an ultimatum. She believes I'm better off without my parents, that they do more harm than good and the best way to fix my issues would be to get them out of my life, totally.
I'm no angel either, we all have our flaws and shortcomings but I should probably be firmer with her and try to move on, for good.
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Eva
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2004 04:23 pm
I think you have a very healthy attitude toward your parents. Part of becoming an adult involves accepting your family in spite of their faults. No one's parents were perfect, and many have done awful things to their children. It takes real maturity to be able to see the good in them despite their past actions, and I commend you for building a better relationship with them now.

It is good that you are seeing a therapist. If and when you have children of your own, you will want to be sure you don't repeat your parents' mistakes. All of us try not to repeat our parents' mistakes. Being aware of them is the first step. Finding better role models and practicing better methods of handling anger are important, too.

People who grow up with abuse and/or neglect usually either repeat those behaviors OR they go the opposite direction entirely. My father was neglected after his mother died when he was 9. When he became a father, he structured his whole life so he could be there for his kids. He was a great dad.

I don't think you want to be with someone who cannot accept your family. You'd be setting yourself up for endless conflict.
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2004 04:40 pm
You have come to terms with your parents and your upbringing.

Your ex seems to have a grasp of Theory of Abuse--but Theory of Love eludes her.

Do you want to give her the right to determine your attitude towards all other people?
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random sunspots
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2004 04:49 pm
No, I don't, and she has had very strong views on that too, how I should relate to friends et cetera.
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jespah
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2004 05:23 pm
In your post, you say your ex calls you weak. You're not weak at all. You've come to terms with how your parents treated you and your brothers. And, you are maintaining contact (at least in part) because to break contact would mean breaking with your brothers. Of course you shouldn't have to do that. Your brothers are innocent in this whole matter.

Relationships should be based on as equal a footing as possible. Sound like this gal wanted the upper hand in a lot of things. Best to be rid of her.
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random sunspots
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2004 04:17 am
Many thanks to you all for writing. I have been unsure how to do deal with the situation. Thanks for sharing your views.
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random sunspots
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 07:21 am
A little update, I spoke to her yesterday and she's very upset about my actions, it disturbs her. She believes my parents have manipulated me into doing this. She said she doesn't trust my judgment and that I act againt my best interests. I told her I was confident I had made a decision under as little influence as possible and that it was mine to make.
Earlier this year, things happened that have enforced her view that my parents are manipulative. I guess they are, to some extent, but not consciously so, and that's where we disagree.

She said she had gone to her "psych books" to understand how to deal with me now ... I told her I let my therapist analyse and deal with me and all I asked for was her support, as a friend. She can't give me that because she believes she knows better. She says there's only one right thing to do, I told her there is nothing absolutely right or wrong and there are as many ways to solve problems as there are people on this Earth and that I have to do what I feel is right. I only ask her to accept and respect that I know what is best for me but she believes there is only one right thing to do at this point and she can't respect me if I'm not doing it. She says I was right when I was with her and acting according to how she thinks is best... Further she says she can never see me again, maybe talk to me online on matters that do not involve anything personal.
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DreamInTheNight
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 08:46 am
It sounds like both of you are doing what you think is best, and that really is the best that you can do. If you (both of you) cannot compromise on this then it probably would not have worked out. I will say in her defense that it can be very difficult to stand by and watch someone be in a situation that seems destructive. It is also disheartening to see someone contribute to that situation, especially if you care about that person. It is quite possible taht she really just had your best interest at heart, and if she feels it is better to stay out of negative situations, at least she is following the advice she gave to you. Good luck in your lfie and decisions.
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random sunspots
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 09:10 am
I know she has my best interests at heart, I've never doubted that for a second. But I look at things differently. I'm sure I would agree with her having the knowledge she has but she doesn't listen when I try to tell her what I know and she doesn't know, she just tells me I'm being brainwashed. What hurts most is that she loves me and I love her.
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Heeven
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 09:34 am
Whoo-boy, your story is so close to mine it freaked me out.

I experienced a very similar childhood to yours. My relationship with my parents today is nothing short of fabulous. They are so loving and supportive now that I couldn't imagine anyone coming between us. We had a breakthrough some years ago when they apologized for the childhood abuses to myself and my siblings.

I was scared too that my relationships would suffer and sadly, they have. I will never get married and whether it is a result of this early view of marriage as being horrendous or whether other factors have kicked in, I really don't know. In all my relationships with men I have caught myself occasionally belittling my partner (as I saw my parents and so many others do) and I hate that behavior. Not wanting to commit to marriage has made many of my relationships sputter and die because naturally the guy feels I don't love him enough to marry and it comes down to an ultimatum - marry me or I leave - so the relationship ends. I would love a happy life-long relationship but I don't want to get married. It has nothing to do with cheating or committing. I am not interested in straying or having my "options open" - I just think we will both work harder at the relationship if we don't get married.

I have also made the choice to not have children but I am not so sure it is because I think I would mistreat or repeat the abuse, but because I simply do not feel the urge to take on that responsibility (a bit of selfishness perhaps). I was an au pair for a year and loved taking care of the kids and I think I handled it quite well - no abuse - but I have happy enough to move on after a year. I just don't want my own kids.

Listen, relationships are something to be worked on, but from what you say your ex-girlfriend says to you - my immediate reaction would be to dump her. Do you not realize that her harping on you - telling you that you are "weak", that nothing but her way is the right way, that she doesn't trust your judgment, etc., etc., is just another form of abuse? She is attacking your character, stomping you down, wanting you to be something other than you are. Selfish, selfish, selfish. Hey, you are not perfect, far from it - as are we all. You have a healthier attitude towards your parents. Things are MUCH improved. Let it grow, talk to your parents, tell them you love them and appreciate them and want to put the past behind you all. A lesson has been learned. Be assertive and remind them (should they fall back into old bad behavior) with a tut-tut "there you go again" reminder. Be there for your brother and if anything similar to your past occurs with him, step in and verbalize it for everyone. Your parents might not see this behavior in themselves sometimes. It can become a habit and, if not pointed out, it will never be resolved.

The girlfriend has to go. She is not good for you right now. You need to find someone who will not judge you or your family for these things but will listen, empathise and make you happy (and you her).

I wish you luck but feel you are already on the road .....
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 10:02 am
Random Sunspots--

This woman does not have your best interests at heart. She has her rule book and her life plan and a pair of pruning shears and all sorts of other equipment for making alterations to you and your life so that you will fit into her life an make her happy.

Bossy insecurity is very dangerous for bystanders.
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 11:08 am
You have been given very good advice here. Everything I would have suggested has already been stated. I strongly agree that this girlfriend is not good for you. She is clearly unsympathetic to your dilemma, and instead of looking inside herself to understand, as you have done, she gives you ultimatums. Believe me, that's the last thing you need. Often, people who have been abused enter relationships where they become the abused, not the abuser. It's the other side of a bad cycle. My take here is that you are being emotionally abused by this girl. You seem to know what's right for you. Follow your heart, and don't let anyone make these decisions for you.
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briarwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 02:31 pm
Quote:
What also must be understood is that even though my parents have done these things, it's in the far past, and they have as long as I can remember supported and helped me. I believe they sincerely look out for what's best for me and my siblings. They admit their mistakes, they seem truly shook by them and they know they can't undo them or even expect forgiveness.

Then later you write:
Quote:
I want to put my younger brother out of harm's way as soon as possible as he still lived in their house.

If the abuse is in the past, then why is your brother still in harm's way?

Just from that statement alone it seems your parents are more of a threat to your well being than you're letting yourself believe.

Granted, your girlfriend DOES sound controlling, but it seems to be out of fear for you and love more than malace. That doesn't make it good, but it may explain why she's so insistant you make a break from the situation.

I wish you well. You're in a very difficult situation.

But if you can forgive your parent's abuse, try to forgive your girlfriend's controlling. Obviously forgiving doesn't mean you have to continue to take it, but it might make it easier to understand where she's coming from.
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random sunspots
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jul, 2004 03:05 pm
I believe they understand and truly regret and have an interest in dealing with it. The sole reason I decided not to do what my ex wanted is because I believe my parents want to do me and my brothers well as well as deal with the problems. I think I'm seeing improvements already. They didn't brush these things over, it truly shook them.

As for my ex, forgiving her I can, she has never intended to be mean, I understand her reasons and what knowledge she bases her own judgment on but that knowledge is incomplete. However, she refuses to accept that, says I'm brainwashed and that she cannot trust me or my judgment and says my only way of not repeating my parents' behavior is by doing what she says because it is the *only* way.
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random sunspots
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2004 06:53 pm
Hiya everyone!

My story unfolds.

About two weeks ago, she texted me and wanted to talk about something personal and I happened to be up late so we did. She'd broken up with the guy she was dating, a week ago. Funnily, all those qualities she said I was missing and he had were the ones she was bored of. Anyway, she had been thinking about me all night, she didn't know why. So we started talking on the phone and ended up to give our relationship a new try, even if we live far apart. We were both very happy.

Last weekend she was going to NYC and asked if I wanted to see her then, we'll both be busy this fall and this was the only chance we had to really see each other so I booked a flight and we stayed a few days in Manhattan.

Coming there seeing her it felt like no time had passed, like I had come home, it was an awesome feeling. Things developed well at first, the first few days, but got worse. She had accepted my decision on my family, even agreed to see them if necessary even though I have never asked that of her, but she couldn't stop relating my continued contact with them to my behavior, apparently finding faults at a whim. Something she commented on during earlier visits was something she totally denied now, saying I had no such issue but I had this and this and it was because of how my parents had treated me so and then.
She holds the view that I won't be able to get anywhere with my therapist unless I totally break with my parents. This, despite the fact that she came to me and wanted me back, and knew what terms I'd set for the relationship.

There was a lot of other things going on but I didn't mind, I can take some verbal abuse now and then, she often seems more vicious than intended and it's been long since I took offense and got angry. My time alone has helped me build self-confidence and improved my ability to control my anger. But she got annoyed with all sorts of things I did, even innocent ones. I was tired after the flight and I was more distracted those days than I usually am and I was guilty of not paying enough attention or remembering things she told me. She felt ignored by me and unimportant, and I don't blame her, I contributed to what happened even though I wasn't my normal composed and organized self.
Added to this. she had her periods earlier than planned so any intimacy wasn't possible, to add to the complications.

There are parts here that haven't been told, earlier, during the fall a friend of mine whom I introduced to her, turned on me and painted me rather nasty as well as shared things I'd confided in him. Me and this woman weren't best friends back then, she thought I was a narcicssist pig and he was happy to support that idea by agreeing with her, he was siding with her against me, someone i considered my best friend.
In defense, he told me he thought I'd do the same if I were in his shoes:shock:.
Eventually he realized what he had done but I didn't speak to him since, until this spring, when me and her fell out.
Me and my friend have resumed contact and tried to rebuild trust, much at my initiate as I believe people deserve a second chance. When she found that out she told me I was weak and shouldn't let in losers in my life, further that she had no respect for me and didn't care at all what I did.

The days hadn't been perfect but we had some fun, some close and personal moments. I finally felt I could accept her, totally, she isn't easy to love but I felt that I am prepared to make that commitment to her, and actually live with her.
Then, suddenly, the last night she decided I was a jerk, and our final day was disaster. After I was back home after a long and exhausting flight I got to talk to her, she ignored my texts and voicemail and basically told me she'd never want to see me again and that she had trashed what I had bought her.

Anyway, this is not the first time we have rebounded, and I thought her coming back she would have changed or came back understanding more where I came from. She assumed four months had changed me utterly, because change is what she wants to see in me and so far all our incompatibilities have by her been attributed to my shortcomings, which isn't fair at all.
Time apart has made appreciate her more but it has also made me stronger as a person, I felt down earlier today but I don't know what the future is like or if I want my future to involve her. What is meant to be will be, I find support in that.

However, with all our rebounding I don't know what to expect anymore. Just two weeks ago she wrote a very personal loveletter expressing her eternal love to me, it's a major thing for her, might sound cheesy but she isn't really quick to making that kind of statements and now she says we'll never be again, which I also heard about four months ago.
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2004 08:05 pm
Random Sunspots--

Thanks for the update. So often people leave and we never know what happens....

I think you have changed--and she has not. Her last boyfriend bored her because she really relates to a guy who has "faults" that she can improve.

She wants to improve you, obliterate your parents and since your best friend didn't remain loyal to her she wants him out of the picture.

Little Miss New Broom hasn't lost any of her organizing ability while the two of you have been apart.

This woman is a gal for a series of short, passionate flings-- which will flourish until she starts blaming her boredom on your parents, friends and character flaws. Then the fling is over. You try to understand her--she moves on to another guy who bores her (and who probably resents being new-broomed into the Perfect Catch).

Enjoy the autumn you have planned. Learn, expand, explore and look for a woman who can love you as you are. You don't need extensive alterations.

By the by, what does your therapist think of Ms. New Broom?

Hold your dominion.
0 Replies
 
random sunspots
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2004 09:02 pm
Well, she tells me the reason why she is disgusted with my friend is because of how he treated me. Me and her became friends quickly after that, we reconciled quickly and it developed from that on.

My therapist has no opinion, haven't seen him enough for that.
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random sunspots
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Sep, 2004 09:06 am
Also, I'm not sure if he left her as I know she left him, I have evidence of that, him texting, emailing and calling her while she was with me.

Seems as if all men she's been with, her ex-husband, the guy she dated while we weren't together, are desperate for her attention, they seem to have self-esteem issues. So did I, but I've become better and I don't give in to her as easily, if I disagree I say so, she can't rule me as easily. I have yet to write her a four page letter, I am not going to either as I don't think she deserves one.

According to her, this guy she saw over the summer, he worshipped her but that bored her, further she considers him not her type, he has no "cultural finesse" like she says I do, he didn't appreciate much besides sports and beer and wasn't someone she could have length conversations with, about anything such as science and politics as well as her own problems and issues with her family, which he, according to her, did not comprehend or could relate to at all.

So she comes to me, says I'm better, more understanding and she regrets leaving me, regrets the decision she made, "how could I be so stupid?", we get back together and things are better than ever, since if you have overcome something as hard as we have, you are even more solid than before. But apparently, she has no clue whatsoever what she wants. I am not very happy with the role I've had to play so far.
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