Deciding Whether To Divorce

Fox, I think you know what to do. You are not there to keep your husband company. It is not your obligation to stay with him because he has no one else. That is his life to live. And it is your life you are wasting in this way.

I don't have any kids but I can imagine that you feel the responsibility to stay with your husband for their sake. But are you really doing them a favour? I doubt it.

Remember, you have to live your own life. Make the most of it!

Hi foxthorchick, and welcome to A2K.

I'm sorry you are having a hard time. Have you considered therapy? It seems like a lot of the things you list as problems could change -- if he doesn't know who you are now, perhaps he could learn.

I'm really wary of the last part of your post, where you mention talking with an old flame. Ending one relationship because of a potentiality -- that this old flame may be better for you -- is really dangerous.

urs is quite right about not being there just to keep your husband company, but I do think kids change that equation. There have been a few recent studies about whether it is better for kids if their parents are together but in a less-than-perfect relationship, or if the parents divorce. These seem to indicate that unless it's a really horrible, abusive (physical or verbal) relationship, it's much much harder on the kids for the unsatisfied parents to divorce.

My overriding advice, though, is to get some counselling before you make any decisions. 21 is pretty young to get married, and I understand that you have changed a lot since then, but you may be surprised what you husband would be able to do in the right circumstances.

Good luck!

Already Did The Counseling
Actually the old flame doesn't have as much to do with it as I might have implied. That situation is simply pointing out in stronger fashion how little my husband and I actually have in common, and how much our intimate relationship (both physical and spiritual) is lacking. He is also somewhat controlling, and I am not one to be "controlled". I have a full-time job, and so does he, but all the household duties, as well as taking care of the kids, falls on me. I have tried talking to him about this, but he says that he works on other things at home to make us money, so he won't be helping out with anything household. I am not myself when we go out with other people, because I feel I have to hold back in order to not draw criticism from him, and many other things are factoring into this. I had a discussion with my 8 yr old the other day in which I told him that this is not the way husbands and wives are supposed to treat each other and talk to each other, that it is not normal. He just laughed and said "It is for you guys". That was kind of a wake-up call. Any more input?

Hi foxthorchick,

Again, my sincere sympathy to you for what is obviously a really tough situation.

You didn't mention therapy -- have you tried it? Are you against it? As unhappy as you evidently are, it seems to be that there are some intermediary steps to take between now and deciding to divorce. If your husband understood that the alternative was divorce, it might be a wake-up call for him to truly change.

I have no particular qualm about childless people divorcing, but I really think it has to be extraordinary circumstances before a couple with children splits up. My bias is that my parents divorced when I was 13, and it was truly truamatic for me. They had a really unpleasant relationship, and exchanged words in front of me fairly often, but it still was infinitely worse for me when they did actually go separate ways. And that's what a lot of the recent research has shown -- it's not just unpleasant, it can be life-shatteringly horrible for kids. Obviously the best case scenario is to have happy parents who love each other and are sweet to each other (though, interestingly, I also read that kids need to see their parents argue now and then so as to learn how to properly deal with anger). But given two bad scenarios (divorce or stay together, unhappily as long as not dangerously), research seems to come down firmly on the side of "stay together". (I can get you cites if you like.)

I hate to suggest that if you're unhappy, that's just too bad. One hopes to find a soulmate and stay with that person forever, and it's heartbreaking when those hopes are dashed. Just wanted to add a little from the kids' perspective.

ARGGH! I think "soulmate" is one of the most abused words of this decade. And I believe that most people that use it think that their "soulmate" should be someone that is basically their everything. No one can be someone's everything, and no one can complete the person that thinks a significant other will be that missing component.

Most everyone needs friends, interests, acquaintences, significant others, etc..

I cannot downplay the role that you place on this old love interest. In my mind, you are obviously looking for something in this.

You need to have some serious, adult, no hold barred conversation about where this relationship has been and where it is going. The less drama and finger pointing, the better. First person dialect "I feel that we are heading __________" When you do ______, I feel ___________

Quit beating around the bush. Someone has to take the wheel on this careening relationship.

From a very young age, we are all sold such a load of crap regarding this soulmate thing. PULEEEEEZ !! It's a MYTH, pure and simple.

Marriage is tough, especially the day-to-day things, but you're still together after ten years, which says something. You and your husband really need to talk with each other, and there's no way you can do that without a therapist/counselor. Give yourself and your children at least that much of a chance. You will learn whether there is enough common ground to move on together, or not.

Whether your relationship improves or dissolves, the resulting situation will be healthier for your children than the one they're in now.

Keep us posted.

Hi. I'd like to throw in several cents' worth.

Counseling can help you stay together, or, it can HELP you break up. Don't do either without counseling. A bad break up can take years, decades, to get over.

If I'd thought for a moment my life would be even half as hard as it turned out to be after my divorce, I would never have left.

It would have been far, far, far easier to stay and make the marraige something better for the both of us. I know that now because I am older, more patient and tolerant, and not as needy as I was then.

Just like you have changed in the last 10 years, so can HE. People DO change, and given time, attention, knowledge of others and knowledge of communication that you will learn through counseling and books, you CAN have a happy marraige.

No one can be everything to you. If you are unhappy, find happiness elsewhere--and it need not be in the arms of another. There are many stimulating activities in which you can participate, while allowing your husband some space to grow.

Whether you can afford it or not, I would recommend for a period of time hiring a housekeeper once a week or every other week, send the laundry out, make easy meals, get someone to keep up with the yard, switch to paper cups. All of the above is pennies on the dollar compared to the cost of an attorney and separate households.

Also, see if you can get hubby in for a physical. There may be something wrong if he has no energy and feels the need to control everything. At least, eliminate the obvious.

Also, he may have a slight personality disorder. He may feel so darn inadequate, he just withdraws, doesn't try to measure up, and feels awkward in public. All of that is fixable with therapy. A professional counselor can pin point the problem almost in a snap, and begin to open up new ways for him to see himself and the world. Hubby won't be able to do that with YOU. He may be too intimidated by you to share openly at this point. He'll need a safe, professionally trained person he can trust.

If you are uncomfortable with him in social situations, do not attend them with him. That way, you can be yourself without his censureship.

What if . . . after all the hard work and time that create all those good marriages, you discover he IS your soul mate? I believe in soul mates, but I think they are created through tolerance, understanding, and education about others, relationships, and communication. They don't just fall into place.

And it does take a lot of hard work. You are only now seeing what that means. Nobody can be perfectly suited to each other everyday for fifty-odd years. Sometimes there is a period of time where things seem off, or haywire. How you handle this will determine much of how you will handle other situations in your future--life only gets harder--the passing on of parents, increased expenses, kids moving on (sometimes awkwardly for those first few years), health beginning to fade, house needing more work, et cetera.

Don't run from this marriage without evaluating with the help of a professional counselor and reading books what the problem is and what would be necessary to make things right.

From your articulate post, I can see you are an intelligent, aware person. He is indeed lucky to have you and your perceptive abilities to guide your marriage to more than it currently is.

I wish you the very best.

First you should know that it's very usual for things to change throughout marriage. Who we are at 21 most likely won't be who we are at 31.
For a marriage to be successful and grow, both parties have to be willing to deal with change, and learn to compromise. Communication is a big key.
I've been married 21 years, and can't begin to tell you how different my thoughts are now compared to when I first got married. I had no idea back then, that I'd feel the way I do about things today.
I'm sure my spouse wasn't expecting my changes either. He'd already gone through some of his changes, being he was 15 years older then myself, and had been married once before.
Many of my morals and values changed, which affected how I viewed my spouse, because we weren't always on the same page.
There are certain things I feel very strongly about, where I feel we need to be on the same page. If not, I'm not sure we could have or would have stayed married.
I would have to say that my spouse has made more compromises to please me, then the other way around.
Marriage isn't always 50/50, sometimes it's 70/30, 60/40, whatever.
Whatever it is, it has to be agreeable to both parties in the relationship.
We have a system that works for us, that's what counts.
What works for one couple may not for another.
Your spouse may not know how to deal with your changes, or isn't willing to make compromises to keep the relationship going. You first need to make your spouse aware of your feelings about everything that has changed in your head, you need to let him know what you expect out of him, you need to let him express his feelings.
You need to let your children know that having disagreements is a normal part of a relationship, that working to resolve problems is also.
Since your spouse feels that it's more your responsibility to care for the household things, why don't you offer to work only part time or not at all, and stay at home with the kids? Or, suggest he be the one to work less.
If there's enough love there between the two of you, or enough love for your children as a couple, you can work things out. Giving up is the easiest thing to do, that's why there are so many divorces.
That's also why our youth today has so many issues. While their divorced parents found an easy way out of their situation, their kids haven't.
My suggestion is do anything and everything both of you can to help save your marriage, as well as make it a content one before throwing the towel in. When and if you've you can say that you've exhausted all avenues and are satisfied that there's no better option then divorce, then end it.
I hope for both your sake and your childrens, that doesn't have to happen.

dlk33 has given you some wise advice.

Mine will sound like it's from your 89 year old conservative grandmother, but I have been married for 23 years, through all manner of fresh hell, and I'd like to tell you what I've learned.

1) Marriage should mean enough to battle for before giving up. You may not even be motivated to fight for it. Hell, you may think you hate your husband. (Emotions go up and down through a marriage. They may be at a low point for a couple of years, which is VERY conducive to a break up. But, don't allow a low period to rob you. No matter who you marry, or how many times you get married, this is going to happen.)

2) Love is a decision, not an emotion.

3) The problems you have in this marriage will be there in marriage #2. (Not if hubby #1 isn't there to bring them, you may say? You need a professional to help you establish what the problems are. They may appear to be 'he won't help with household duties', when another vicious animal lurks beneath.)

4) For God's sake, and yours, break off now with the old boyfriend! Your husband doesn't have a chance, and neither do you. Your brain is going to epiphinate every time you talk to him. You have a biological thingie for the new feelings about the old boyfriend. Tell me, does he make you feel younger and desirable in a way your husband hasn't for a while? Also, old boyfriend isn't helping with the kids, or paying the bills, or going through the mundane day to day crap with you. IT'S UNFAIRLY EASY TO PREFER HIM.

I made the mistake, and could've lost my marriage due to the same things you mention here. I am forgiven, but I left scars on my marriage. I would want to help anyone else avoid what I went through.

I hope that ForthorChick is still around...

..because that was excellent advice. Even Urs! saying you have to make the most of your life. It is true. About divorcing... well, reconsider. True as dlk says re. the 30-70, but sometimes it may be 10-90 or worse. Not for a long time.... but over the course there may be a very lopsided and tenuous holding-ratio between a couple of long-standing.

And about the scars put on a marriage? Yes, they are painful, but the sweetness of managing to stay together and the history you build... that's the life, right?

Try. Try really hard. Try extra hard. Make sure that he knows you are trying. Hope that he tries, too. Of course, you must separate, IMO, maybe he has a friend's house where he can stay for a few days? You need to quiet yourself and step back... besides, asking him to leave will show that you are serious.

You must absolutely quit seeing or discussing your emotions with this other man. No contact in person, by telephone, letter, or god forbid, computer! Have I stressed this enough? And please. Before this, discuss with your husband that if there is to be a reconciliation there must be absolutely no more name-calling nor other specific hurts. That must be agreed to.

Then be separate for a short time. See exactly what your life will be. Give it a week or more. Do not see your husband. (Obviously, do not see this other. ) Talk to your children, at this point they may have some interesting comments. Listen closely to what they have to say. I imagine you have taught them good behavior and I ache for them. They have probably also added to the stress of your relationship.... look at ways that you can ease that, but do not make them feel guilty in any way.

Maybe you should never have been married, were you rushed into it? Have the last ten years been a mistake? Why do you not have anything in common?

There were good things about this person, weren't there?... reasons you got married. Concentrate on that for a while and also your work or whatever you do. Try not to discuss this with your girlfriends or family. Think for yourself.

Once he is gone, write a goodbye letter and tell him all the reasons you liked him and what made you sad, but do not post the letter.

Make a date after being apart. Look for the appealing things about him. Try to forgive him for being imperfect. But remember, he should never call you a name again... & neither should you. He must not hit you, or you him. If he wants to make the marriage work, does he??? then you must ask yourself why you don't. What is it? Talk to him about that. Good luck. Really. The very best of luck... you have a hard row to hoe just now.

....

I really appreciate all the advice I've been getting from people. I started looking at the other areas in my life besides just my marriage, and kind of tryng to evaluate how I felt about them. And that's when I decided that maybe I should go talk to my doctor. He said that everyone goes thru hard times and stressful situations, but that there's only so much a person's brain can take. So he prescribed some Effexor for me to take. It may just be the peace of knowing things might get better, but I think I have noticed a difference already. I feel more "normal", like I'm not so short-tempered or exasperated, and I've been actually sleeping all night thru, and don't feel quite so tired and run-down. I've always kind of thought people should just be able to deal with their problems and get over them, but I decided that maybe there was actually something more to it than I gave them credit for, and that it was at least worth a try. I started asking myself, "Don't you think it will get easier to take care of the house when the kids are a little older" and "Don't you think it will be more fulfilling when we can go out again on DATES when the kids are a little older"? I started to think about all the things we actually do as a family...the twice a year long-weekend vacations, the dirtbike races, the kids' Christmas programs, climbing thru the tunnels at McDonalds...and maybe it's not so bad. What do I really have to be upset about? Maybe something is just out of whack in my head...although I hate to admit it. But after all this, maybe there IS a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm at least going to make an effort to reach it.

Oh, good, good, good. I am so pleased to read your words. A household can get overwhelming sometimes... and if you are not able to get enough sleep... well, things can seem awfully black.



There is light at the end of the tunnel... it sounds like you're seeing it, now. Relax and enjoy the ride even if it is a little bumpy.

What's Effexor?

Generic: venlafaxine
Brand: Effexor

Antidepressant

Used for depression.

Unapproved use: obsessive-compulsive disorder

Good for you. Exhaustion is the worst. Screws with everything. So glad you are getting the sleep you need and very much deserve.

Years after I divorced--unfortunately--I discovered I had an eating disorder. Seems people need food to function and I didn't know that, thought eating was optional, I did.

I could have saved my marriage if I'd just known.

Having common interests really isn't as necessary--IMO--as having common values.

My sweetheart is interested in Texas history, law, politics, development, ranching. I'm interested in grammar, theater, gardening, music. When we get together there is much to share.

We both love good food and time in each other's arms.

I'd say those are the ties that bind.

YEAH!

It is so encouraging to hear that you are taking another look at your relationship.

Best of luck to you, and stop back. I'd like to hear how things are going!

Just to let you know that yes, your will have a bit more time for those things that seem so rushed now when your children get older.
Maybe you and your husband need to take some "together" time right now, instead of later. You can't forget that you were a couple first, before you became parents, and it's important to the marriage to keep the couple feeling alive. If you have someone around that you can trust to babysit your kids, go on a date or two just like the good ole days.
The biggest problem you will have to deal with is not being able to get the kids off your minds while you are away from them. The date will probably be short lived, but at least it's a start.
Each stage of parenting has it's ups and downs. As one thing get's easier, another get's harder.
I have to say that we've spent a lot of time together as a family, and I think our children are better for it. Our children have never spent any time at a babysitter or daycare, and none of our family members live near us.
Now, with the kids being teenagers we have plenty of time to ourselves, but I still feel the need to be around when they are home. The one thing that made a big difference to our time together as a couple was our ability to be home on Monday's, when the kids are in school.(most of the time)
We take advantage of those hours alone.
I hope you will include your husband in your journey of parenthood and self emotional growth, because you don't have to go it alone, and it's his responsibility too, because he loves and cares for you and the children. It's a package deal. One day he will probably need your support in some way, and I'm sure you'll be there for him. It's a two way street.
I'm glad to see that the posts we wrote were helpful to you. I wish you and your family happiness.

So much wise advice and consideration for the position
that you find yourself in Foxy.... what can I say? My
experience tells me that life goes on and people are
always changing and that there IS NO ONE person with
whom you will make it or break it! When you decide
that a relationship, ANY relationship is going to get YOUR
100 percent! THEN, and only then will you get a 100
percent relationship. Whoever your partner is, is only
one half of an equation - to which you are the other half
now, if it was like 1/8ths and such, it would be different,
but for a 2 party relationship - my own experience tells
me that ANY decision that EITHER person makes AND
decides from this day forward to put into practice for THEIR
OWN BEST INTERESTS ONLY!!!
(not to manipulate or try to change that other person)
WILL CHANGE THAT RELATIONSHIP BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS.
Why is this so? Because you can not have an action without
a reaction. If I change in any way - IT may inspire my spouse
to any number of varying feelings - anger, fear, loss, or it may
even LEAD to that person doing a bit of self examination, and
reflecting on their own behavior. ( but I would not count on it )
My relationship experience is that each of us does try to get
by in life by exerting the least amount of effort possible. That
old saying - "you get what you pay for" is true in many more
ways than when it comes to buying a new washer and dryer.
It is UNDENIABLY true in relationships... whatever you are
willing to put into it - is what you will no doubt get out of it.
And the STRANGEST part about it is that you could probably
have an equally great, or equally horrible - relationship with
just about any other human being on the planet.
The ONLY restriction I would place on this statement is when
you are involved with a person who causes you physical harm.
Physical abuse is non negotiable, ever, regardless of that
persons past or whatever.... it is simply out of the question.
Trust....is a tenous thing and I must be able to trust that the
person I choose to be in relationship with - will never harm
me in any way - OR EVEN WISH ME HARM!!
So, that being the bottom line ..... there is some great
reading material out there about these issues, nobody
seems to cover it better than Harriet Lerhner - in a
series of books like The Dance Of Anger, The Dance Of
Intimacy, The Dance Of Deception etc etc.....with a #1
primer - being M S Peck's, The Road Less Traveled, so
we can at least BEGIN with a reasonable idea of what love
is and is not. When I begin to see loving as a verb, rather
than as a feeing...... I become a much less selfish person
and I begin to examine MY own actions, how loving am I?
And I can grow from there - to anywhere.

My first marriage was for 9 years. I got married at 20. I think that no one is really mature enough and going in the exact direction of their lives at such an age. That is why 20 is FUN!!!! If you are not happy get out because when your not happy with your life how can you make your kids happy.