Observations in Contradiction: Part 1

Forums: Politics
Email this Topic • Print this Page

This is the first in a series of issues that I have been made aware of over the last 6 weeks. As many of you know, I was in the Heartland during the month of June visiting my Dad who is terminally ill. My visit was a political eye-opener for one who was raised there but has spent the last 18 years on the East Coast.

The first topic I would like to address is that of the upcoming election as it relates to the Religious Right and Republican support.

The first Sunday with my Father and family included church services at a small Baptist church. I am a Christian, but lean more Methodist than Baptist if forced to choose. The first thing I noticed was that there was an insert in the bulletin handed to me that was produced and distributed by "Focus on Family." It was a bulletin size pamphlet with small type that covered all 4 pages with the "Christian" stance on various political issues and emphasized voting for the candidate that fit these values.

In talking to people, including family members, about these issues I found that they responded with rote sound bites that they assumed to be true without questioning. They assumed that the Republican party was their party due to family values / Christian values. They assumed Bush is a Christian, therefore, he is the one who will get their vote.

When I asked if a Christian would be told by God to go to war against someone who had NOT attacked them and didn't have the capability to do so? If a Christian would support the raping and torturing of other human beings, including women and children? Or, much simpler and down home, would a Christian call people names, curse, unthinkingly sling insults around and pretend they are funny? ... They really didn't have a response! I then tried to point out the conflicts in these beliefs. I pointed out that as a Christian, Jimmy Carter has lived his faith. There is no question as to his beliefs because he makes it clear through ACTIONS that he is a Christian. Actions speak louder than words. Anyone can claim to be whatever they like, but their actions over time reveal who they are and will not be able to hide their true selves. I reminded them that the Bible itself warns us of following like sheep, and that there would be much deception, to be wary of being lead astray. I asked them to please think about whether or not a candidate really fits their beliefs before voting.

Now, I don't know if it will make any difference. I don't know how many will actually vote. I DO know that the assumption is that Bush is the one that fits their Christian beliefs.

How did the Republican Party gain this standing with the Christians?

What other conflicts if any do you see between the republican platform / actual policy and Christian beliefs or family values?

If you are a republican, how does this party relate to your religious beliefs or Values? What policies have beem enacted that fit with your beliefs?

Please keep it civil. Non- Christians and those of other faiths are welcome to join in and provide your take on this.

Topic Stats
Top Replies
Link to this Topic

Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 4,735 • Replies: 76

No top replies

Republicans accept both their religion and party on blind faith. No amount of reasoning touches their preconcieved notions. They speak out against collectivism yet follow each other like a herd of sheep.

0 Replies

Religion and heroin are both drugs that poison mens minds.

0 Replies

edgarblythe wrote:

Republicans accept both their religion and party on blind faith. No amount of reasoning touches their preconcieved notions. They speak out against collectivism yet follow each other like a herd of sheep.

Typical nonsensicial rhetoric from the sheep on the left.

0 Replies

Squinny. I do not recommend reading about a problem over direct experience, which is to be preferred. But it might be helpful to have a context to the phenomena you have observed. I recommend that you read:

What's the Matter with Kansas?: How Conservatives Won the Heart of America Thomas Frank Metropolitan Books, 2004

In brief Frank's thesis is that conservative Republicans have turned traditional midwestern populism on it head and convinced people that it is their way of life, not their economic well being that is at risk. Thus "values" are of more significance than economic well being. If you are the party of the rich and powerful, this is a neat trick.

This Link is to several reviews of the book on Amazon

Amazon reviews

0 Replies

Acquiunk - I spoke about this with Bear and a few days later saw the reference to "What's the Matter with Kansas?" on Buzzflash. Have only read the reviews, but found what was said to be in agreement with my observations.

IMO, the Republican party does not represent the values of these people if they were to think about it. However, due to limited cable, Dish, internet connection, small local papers, etc, I observed first hand that they do not get the information. Bear told me by phone a few things that I had not heard anything about while in Oklahoma, such as the crowning of Rev. Moon. No mention whatsoever in rural OK.

0 Replies

Squinney you seem to think that Republicans FAVOR attacking a country who had no capability to attack anybody, that Republicans favor raping prisoners, etc. To me that is akin to asking if you favor a person beating his wife beating your wife because somebody somewhere at some time did so.

It would have been far more intellectually honest to have phrased the questions:
- Do you favor a party that made such serious mistakes regarding Iraq's capability to make war?

- Do you favor a party that wasn't able to foresee the problems at Abu Ghraib?

Etc.

When phrased this way, it quickly becomes apparent that these are not Republican or Democrat issues. The way you phrased it was a lie by implication, no doubt unintentional, but a lie nevertheless.

0 Replies

It is sad that some people look at politics superficially and never look at the underlying issues, or of what they truthfully represent. Being raised as a Christian, I can only say that I do not think the Republican Party represents the "good family values", that I have been taught.

0 Replies

Fox- Fair point. But the people I encountered were staunch republicans that fully backed the war, and do so today even given the misinformation regarding its initial purpose - the threat of WMD's Saddam HAS, not COULD have. Now that we know he did not HAVE them, they still think it was a good thing to go to war pre-emptively because we are "fighting terror," completely dismissing that there was no connection between 9/11 and Saddam. They do favor attacking a country that has not attacked anyone.

They fully back the Republican President, which includes abuse that took place on his watch and is now being reported to have been signed off on by Rumsfeld. Whether that is true is yet to be seen. But if I offer refuge to my neighbors beaten wife (to use your analogy more appropriately) and then allow my husband to beat her, I certainly need to take some responsibility. Our president has not taken responsibility, and his Christian base is not questioning it.

0 Replies

Squinney
Squinney, I thought the questions you raised were a breath of fresh air on this forum. I hope people will respond not with flip generalizations, but with equal thought to match your inquiry. I know that will be hard for some folks, but one can always hope for some maturity of thought.

For myself, as an atheist for many decades and having gone through the agnostic phase before deciding that was a cop-out, I view religion differently that most believers.

A simplistic but short explanation is that I believe that the history of all religions demonstrates an organized means of mass manipulation and control for power and, ultimately, wealth. Therefore, I don't see that much difference between religion and political parties and movements. They both use the same tools for the same goals. Religion does not have to prove its tenets; they must be accepted on faith. Politics, on the other hand, has to constantly prove its relevance and adapt to change.

I view religions as having the same characteristics as cults, both ancient and modern. The difference between religion and political parties is that religions tend to be permanent and political parties come and go. So there is more hope for reform and change in politics than in religion. In addition, politics tend to keep current with the changing world whereas religion is adverse to any change however obsolete.

I think these differences may account for why the religious believers are programmed to accept political dogma in the same way they are conditioned to except religious dogma. The political parties understand this and exploit it for their own goals, which may have no relationship to acting in the best interests of the country as a whole.

Another important factor is that religious-based education tells students what to think, not how to think. This fact precludes any method of independent critical thinking, which leads to being manipulated. Madison Avenue advertising techniques are but one example they learned from religion sellers.

That's why the separation of church and state is such an important tenet of the US Republic.

BBB

0 Replies

Squinney, think Democrat policies are superior to Republican policies, think going to war anywhere for any reason is dumb, put a Kerry/Edwards bumper sticker on your car and you have my blessings plus opinion that you hold philosophical differences with me.

To even suggest that Rumsfield approved or signed off on the atrocities at Abu Ghraib, to say that the current administration (or 99% of other principal) believed Iraq was unable to attack anybody, or, as colorbook suggests, Republicans somehow have inferior family values to Democrats, is pure partisan, and in my opinion, ignorant drivel spoken by otherwise intelligent people.

There is plenty of room for philosophical, ideological differences in a Republic form of government. It was designed so that could be so. But it is insulting and intellectually dishonest to demonize your opponent in order to have a reason to criticize.

0 Replies

Hi Squinney, I'm sorry to hear about your father. Your being there surely means a lot to him. Your prolonged visit must be a sad time, but I hope there are some very happy moments for you, too. The chance to say goodbye through deeds as well as words is a real gift, and the beauty is that you can give and receive it at the same moment. I hope these words bring you some comfort.
Piffka

As for your posting, I can see how any congregation finding a brochure within their church bulletin would naturally assume that it has been approved by the minister and therefore something that should be closely considered.

As for differences between Christian morality and Republican ideals... I could point to mercy for those in prison, kindness to the poor, and the stipulations not to love money. I could also point to judging not, giving to Caesar vs. God, and remaining aloof from the world. Most of all though, there is that parable about not leaving your light under a bushel.

"If you want peace, work for justice."

Now that's from H.L. Mencken, who was a non-Christian and quite profane, so don't tell the Baptists (!) but nevertheless, it is a good ideal. I found it used by lots of Christian peace groups, including one from North Carolina called the Baptist Peace Fellowship of North America.

This is their statement "The purpose of the Baptist Peace Fellowship of North America is to unite and enable Christians to make peace with justice in a warring world." I particularly liked their statement that "peace is waged." Maybe you could get your father's Baptist church into a dialog with these folks?

Here is some of what they offered on their website, which I encourage you to look at:

Quote:

The Bible Speaks About Peace
12 things every Christian should know

1. Peace is the will of God.
From the first chapter of Scripture, where God pronounced creation "good" (Gen. 1:31), to the very last, in John's vision of a tree "for the healing of the nations" (Rev 22:2), God pursues peace. Trust in God is contrasted with trust in the instruments of war (Is. 31:1; Ps. 20:7; 33:16-17; Hos. 1:7).

2. Peace was the mission of Jesus.
His role as "The Prince of Peace" was foretold by Isaiah (9:6). Angels announcing his birth declared "Glory to God" and "peace on earth" (Lk 2:14). Weeping over Jerusalem, Jesus prayed; "would that you knew the things that make for peace" (Lk. 19:41-42).

3. The fruit of the Spirit is peace.
(Gal. 5:22). "Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, says the Lord" (Zech. 4:6). Prior to his death, Jesus said, "Peace I leave with you," in reference to the coming of the Holy Spirit (Jn. 14:25-27).

4. Peace was the witness of the early church.
The new community created in Christ bore witness by its reconciled fellowship: "And all who believed were together and had all things in common" (Acts 2:44-47; 4:32-37). Paul urged that the church's "feet" be "shod with the gospel of peace" (Eph. 6:15).

5. Peace is more than the absence of war.
Peace - shalom - occurs when captives are released (Lk. 4:18); when outcasts are gathered (Zeph. 3:19); when the hungry have plenty to eat (Joel 2:19-26; Lk. 1:53; I Sam. 2:1-8).

6. The foundation of peace is justice.
"The effect of righteousness (justice) will be peace," predicted Isaiah (32:17). "Righteousness and peace will kiss," wrote the psalmist (Ps. 85:10). "Sowing justice" will result in peace, said Hosea (10:12-14).

7. Peace, like war, is waged.
Peacemakers are not passive, but active. Peter, echoing the psalmist, urges us to "seek peace, and to pursue it" (I Pet. 3:11; Ps. 34:14). Jesus urged worshippers to take the initiative to settle disputes (Mt. 5:23-24). Peace includes loving and feeding enemies (Lk. 6:27; Rom. 12:20).

8. Peacemakers sometimes cause trouble.
Jesus turned over the tables of oppressive money-changers (Jn. 2:13-16). When he says, "I come not to bring peace but division" (Lk. 12:51), the "peace" of which he speaks merely disguises an order of injustice (see Jer. 6:14-15). It was Jesus' peacemaking mission which landed him on the cross (Col. 1:20).

9. Peacemaking is rooted in grace.
In Jesus' prayer, our "debts" are forgiven in the measure to which we forgive others (Mt. 6:12). "Whoever is forgiven little, loves little" (Lk 7:47). It is grace which frees us from fear (I Jn. 4:18) and empowers us to risk our lives for the sake of justice and peace.

10. Peace in Christ and in creation are linked.
Not only are divisions in the human community overcome "in Christ" (Galatians 3:28), but also in the whole created order. The knowledge of God and the healing of creation are parallel realities (Is. 11:3-9). The land itself mourns (Is. 33:9). "But ask the beasts...and the birds...or the plants, and they will teach you: of the ways of the Lord (Job 12:7-10).

11. Peacemaking is not optional.
The separation between "preaching the Gospel" and "working for peace and justice" is a perversion of biblical truth. Jesus prayed; "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven" (Mt. 6:10). We lie if we say we love God yet fail to assist neighbors in need (I Jn. 4:20). Loving enemies - whether close at hand or far away - is the way to become children of God (Mt. 5:44-45).

12. God's promised future is peace.
Though now living as "aliens" in a strange land, peacemakers have caught a glimpse of how the future will finally unfold. Both Isaiah and John's Revelation speak of the coming "new heaven and new earth" (Is. 65:17-22; Rev. 21:1). The day is coming, says Micah, when nations "shall beat their swords into ploughshares...and neither shall they learn war any more" (4:3-4). On that day, creation itself - which "has been groaning in travail...will be set free from its bondage to decay (Rom. 8:19-24).

0 Replies

Squinney
Squinney asked: "How did the Republican Party gain this standing with the Christians?"

The Republican Party is very smart. It communicates with the people they are trying to attract with familiar language and parables. Thus, people are more open to accepting information from like folks, regardless of whether or not it is genuine. They use religious leaders and institutions as their conduits of influence for acceptance based on faith, not facts.

There is no viable organized institutions available to those not using religion as a recruitment vehicle with the possible exception of non-secular institutions such as but not limited to labor unions and other professional societies.

BBB

0 Replies

Foxfyre - I do not believe Democrat policies are superior, that going to war for any reason is dumb, or ESPECIALLY that republicans have inferior values.

My point is that I did not observe Midwestern rural Christians questioning whether or not the republican policies of this administration fit their own values. That they were accepting, for some reason that I would like to understand, that it is the republican platform rather than that of the democrats that fit their "Values" without evaluating those policies they claim represent them. It is more disturbing to me as a Christian than it is to me as a Democrat.

I do value your insight on this matter and hope you will continue to contribute.

0 Replies

Hi, BBB. Glad you stopped by. Your comparison of politics and religion were insightful. However, I didn't get the feeling that the people of the area in question were getting the message that religion remains while politics change. I felt like I was in a "Way Back" machine set for the mid- 50's when it came to disbursement of news and national / international events. This also didn't appear to be a prority in their lives, so perhaps their news is consumer generated, based on this areas viewers and readers.

0 Replies

Squinney
Squinney, you are correct in your assessment. The fact is that TV news organizations today are required to be profit centers for their owners rather than agents of public interest service as they were in the time of great print journalists. Sadly, that means they will cater to them that pays them, and facts be damned if it gets in the way of the check is in the mail, especially in television.

BBB

0 Replies

What the Republicans have been successful with is in defining their opponents. Since the days of the "Moral Majority", the republicans have successfully hung labels such as "soft on defense", "soft on crime", "pro-abortion (vs pro-choice)", "anti-family" around the necks of the democrats. Ronald Reagan used the word "liberal" as if it were a four-letter word. Unfortunately, the Democrats let them get away with it. They did not defend their record of fighting for the working class. As a result the Dems ceded these issues to the Repubs.

0 Replies

Swimpy
Swimpy, you are correct. The Dems were afraid of the likeable Reagan enough to not fight back; that's why the Republicans nominated Reagan.

And when the Dems talk about Republican favoritism to the economic elite, the republicans whine about class warfare, and the Dems let them get away with it. The fact is that the Republicans engage in class warfare everyday. The Dems run away from that tag when, in fact, they should be proud of fighting against it.

BBB

0 Replies

This is a great thread, Squinney! I'm just sitting here quietly, taking it all in.....

0 Replies

Speaking in an alien (for me) vocabulary, I think the heartland is full of good, respectable, decent, God-fearing people who are sure in their hearts that the Good, Old U.S. of A. is going to hell in a handbasket.

They object to Hollywood Shenanigans and Drugs in High Schools and throwing Our Tax Money around and Porn On and Off the Internet and Unwed Mothers and Obscene T-Shirts and Child Abuse....

"Those People" on both coasts and in the big cities obviously don't object to such Goings On--otherwise such Goings On wouldn't happen.

When The Voters of the Heartland go to the poll, they are electing shepherds and father figures as much as presidents and members of congress. They want to be taken care of and for years the Republican party has assured them, "We share your values. We share your concerns. We will take care of you."

0 Replies

Observations in Contradiction: Part 1

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know