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US installs new Saddam

 
 
Redheat
 
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:29 am
Over 10,000 innocent Iraqi lives lost, almost 1,000 Americans dead and thousands injured in order to Remove a bad man called Saddam and what do we do? Well put in another madman of course! Good job Bush!

Quote:
Allawi shot inmates in cold blood, say witnesses
By Paul McGeough
Sidney Morning Herald


July 17, 2004


Iyad Allawi, the new Prime Minister of Iraq, pulled a pistol and executed as many as six suspected insurgents at a Baghdad police station, just days before Washington handed control of the country to his interim government, according to two people who allege they witnessed the killings.


They say the prisoners - handcuffed and blindfolded - were lined up against a wall in a courtyard adjacent to the maximum-security cell block in which they were held at the Al-Amariyah security centre, in the city's south-western suburbs.


They say Dr Allawi told onlookers the victims had each killed as many as 50 Iraqis and they "deserved worse than death".


The Prime Minister's office has denied the entirety of the witness accounts in a written statement to the Herald, saying Dr Allawi had never visited the centre and he did not carry a gun.


But the informants told the Herald that Dr Allawi shot each young man in the head as about a dozen Iraqi policemen and four Americans from the Prime Minister's personal security team watched in stunned silence.


Iraq's Interior Minister, Falah al-Naqib, is said to have looked on and congratulated him when the job was done. Mr al-Naqib's office has issued a verbal denial.


The names of three of the alleged victims have been obtained by the Herald.


One of the witnesses claimed that before killing the prisoners Dr Allawi had told those around him that he wanted to send a clear message to the police on how to deal with insurgents.



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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,824 • Replies: 42
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Sagamore
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:33 am
Well, this gets the new democracy off to a fine start.

Though Redheat explains the similarities between the new guy and saddam, I am sure there will come an explanation explaining that it is "different." No doubt these were good killings compared to the bad killings of saddam.
0 Replies
 
cdcart
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:36 am
This just in from the Sydney Morning Herald...

Pooh-Pooh stinks often and rarely smells nice.

Let's wait and see what shakes out of this...

The people of Iraq will be able to vote soon on their new leader - who will we blame when that happens?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:39 am
I guess denying it is not enough.

Some will believe the bad guys no matter what happens.

Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:43 am
Does that mean that his denial, despite witnesses saying otherwise, is good enough for you?
0 Replies
 
Redheat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:44 am
McGentrix wrote:
I guess denying it is not enough.

Some will believe the bad guys no matter what happens.

Rolling Eyes


So what you're saying is all those people who witnessed it are lying but the ONE man accused doing it is the only one not lying?

What bad guy are they believing in this instance? Rolling Eyes

Quote:
The people of Iraq will be able to vote soon on their new leader - who will we blame when that happens?


Doesn't matter too much who the "vote" in because the US will still have control.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:45 am
Did you read the article suzy?
0 Replies
 
Redheat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:46 am
McGentrix wrote:
Did you read the article suzy?


Did you?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:47 am
Redheat's article wrote:
Dr Allawi's office has dismissed the allegations as rumours instigated by enemies of his interim government.

A statement in the name of spokesman Taha Hussein read: "We face these sorts of allegations on a regular basis. Numerous groups are attempting to hinder what the interim Iraqi government is on the verge of achieving, and occasionally they spread outrageous accusations hoping they will be believed and thus harm the honourable reputation of those who sacrifice so much to protect this glorious country and its now free and respectable people.

"Dr Allawi is turning this country into a free and democratic nation run by the rule of law; so if your sources are as credible as they say they are, then they are more than welcome to file a complaint in a court of law against the Prime Minister."

In response to a question asking if Dr Allawi carried a gun, the statement said: "[He] does not carry a pistol. He is the Prime Minister of Iraq, not a combatant in need of any weaponry."

Sabah Khadum, a senior adviser to Interior Minister Mr Naqib, whose portfolio covers police matters, also dismissed the accounts. Rejecting them as "ludicrous", Mr Khadum said of Dr Allawi: "He is a doctor and I know him. He was my neighbour in London. He just doesn't have it in him. Baghdad is a city of rumours. This is not worth discussing."

Mr Khadum added: "Do you think a man who is Prime Minister is going to disqualify himself for life like this? This is not a government of gangsters."

Asked if Dr Allawi had visited the Al-Amariyah complex - one of the most important counter-insurgency centres in Baghdad - Mr Khadum said he could not reveal the Prime Minister's movements. But he added: "Dr Allawi has made many visits to police stations ... he is heading the offensive."

US officials in Iraq have not made an outright denial of the allegations. An emailed response to questions from the Herald to the US ambassador, John Negroponte, said: "If we attempted to refute each [rumour], we would have no time for other business. As far as this embassy's press office is concerned, this case is closed."
0 Replies
 
Redheat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:48 am
Quote:
The names of three of the alleged victims have been obtained by the Herald.

One of the witnesses claimed that before killing the prisoners Dr Allawi had told those around him that he wanted to send a clear message to the police on how to deal with insurgents.

"The prisoners were against the wall and we were standing in the courtyard when the Interior Minister said that he would like to kill them all on the spot. Allawi said that they deserved worse than death - but then he pulled the pistol from his belt and started shooting them."

Re-enacting the killings, one witness stood three to four metres in front of a wall and swung his outstretched arm in an even arc, left to right, jerking his wrist to mimic the recoil as each bullet was fired. Then he raised a hand to his brow, saying: "He was very close. Each was shot in the head
The witnesses said seven prisoners had been brought out to the courtyard, but the last man in the line was only wounded - in the neck, said one witness; in the chest, said the other.

Given Dr Allawi's role as the leader of the US experiment in planting a model democracy in the Middle East, allegations of a return to the cold-blooded tactics of his predecessor are likely to stir a simmering debate on how well Washington knows its man in Baghdad, and precisely what he envisages for the new Iraq.

There is much debate and rumour in Baghdad about the Prime Minister's capacity for brutality, but this is the first time eyewitness accounts have been obtained.


Really can you imagine a man accused of this kind of brutality maintaining his innocence? How odd. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
cdcart
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:48 am
hmm...
you know you are right... the mighty US does control all things, all the time, unless a democrat is in office. Would that be accurate?
0 Replies
 
Karzak
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:50 am
He only killed 6? Hell, clinton killed three times that!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:51 am
McGentrix wrote:
Did you read the article suzy?


Are you referring to this part of it, McG?
Quote:
There is much debate and rumour in Baghdad about the Prime Minister's capacity for brutality, but this is the first time eyewitness accounts have been obtained.

A former CIA officer, Vincent Cannisatraro, recently told The New Yorker: "If you're asking me if Allawi has blood on his hands from his days in London, the answer is yes, he does. He was a paid Mukhabarat [intelligence] agent for the Iraqis, and he was involved in dirty stuff."
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:51 am
witnesses can be so reliable

As a researcher and hypnotherapist I have worked with people who claimed to have been abducted by extraterrestrials. I have interviewed UFO researchers, scientists, authors, and people who claim to have secret information.

Physical evidence seems to support many case histories, though some experiences may actually be caused by dreams, mental problems, media indoctrination, or misinterpretation of what the person has seen. All leave an imprint on the psyche of the person, or persons (multiple abductions involved).

Most countries have reports of alien abductions. They occur in large cities as well as the rural areas.

Abductions occur at any time of the day or night.

Many abductions are not reported, because there is no one to tell, or the abductee fears ridicule from others, especially if they feel they have been sexually violated.

People wo have been abducted many times keep journals to determine patterns or timetables. They sometimes write books about their experiences.

Abductees have tried many interesting techniques to protect themselves, but to date, I know of no one specific approach that prevents these experiences.

Abductees have reported attempts to video or photograph the events. Some abductees have experimented with infrared film. Most footage is useless.

My opinion of this experience: We are all part of an experiment/ experience/ program of some kind. The Grays have always been part of the program. If you can remote view and you get close to their eyes - you will see that the Greys are machines - computers - the watchers - who take people in and out of the porgram to some do sort of reprogramming - like the movie Matrix - The Holodeck in Star Trek. It is all an illusion but this is a nasty part.

Often abductees are told that the experience is for some 'greater good'. Always remember that anyone who does anything to you without your permission - or makes your soul feel uncomfortable - does not have your best interests at heart. Be careful what you believe.
0 Replies
 
Redheat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:52 am
Quote:
A former CIA officer, Vincent Cannisatraro, recently told The New Yorker: "If you're asking me if Allawi has blood on his hands from his days in London, the answer is yes, he does. He was a paid Mukhabarat [intelligence] agent for the Iraqis, and he was involved in dirty stuff."

In Baghdad, varying accounts of the shootings are interpreted by observers as useful to a little-known politician who, after 33 years in exile, needs to prove his leadership credentials as a "strongman" in a war-ravaged country that has no experience of democracy.

Dr Allawi's statement dismissed the allegations as rumours instigated by enemies of his interim government.

But in a sharp reminder of the Iraqi hunger for security above all else, the witnesses did not perceive themselves as whistle-blowers. In interviews with the Herald they were enthusiastic about such killings, with one of them arguing: "These criminals were terrorists. They are the ones who plant the bombs."

Before the shootings, the 58-year-old Prime Minister is said to have told the policemen they must have courage in their work and that he would shield them from any repercussions if they killed insurgents in the course of their duty.

The witnesses said the Iraqi police observers were "shocked and surprised". But asked what message they might take from such an act, one said: "Any terrorists in Iraq should have the same destiny. This is the new Iraq.

"Allawi wanted to send a message to his policemen and soldiers not to be scared if they kill anyone - especially, they are not to worry about tribal revenge. He said there would be an order from him and the Interior Ministry that all would be fully protected.

"He told them: 'We must destroy anyone who wants to destroy Iraq and kill our people.'


Should we list all the brutal dictators the US has endorsed in order to rid of world of Communism/Terrorist?


Quote:
Friendly dictators

Abacha, General Sani -Nigeria
Amin, Idi -Uganda
Banzer, Colonel Hugo -Bolivia
Batista, Fulgencio -Cuba Bolkiah, Sir Hassanal -Brunei
Botha, P.W. -South Africa
Branco, General Humberto -Brazil
Cedras, Raoul -Haiti
Cerezo, Vinicio -Guatemala
Chiang Kai-Shek -Taiwan
Cordova, Roberto Suazo -Honduras
Christiani, Alfredo -El Salvador
Diem, Ngo Dihn -Vietnam
Doe, General Samuel -Liberia
Duvalier, Francois -Haiti
Duvalier, Jean Claude -Haiti
Fahd bin'Abdul-'Aziz, King -Saudi Arabia
Franco, General Francisco -Spain
Hitler, Adolf -Germany
Hassan II-Morocco
Marcos, Ferdinand -Philippines
Martinez, General Maximiliano Hernandez -El Salvador
Mobutu Sese Seko -Zaire
Noriega, General Manuel -Panama
Ozal, Turgut -Turkey
Pahlevi, Shah Mohammed Reza -Iran
Papadopoulos, George -Greece
Park Chung Hee -South Korea
Pinochet, General Augusto -Chile
Pol Pot-Cambodia
Rabuka, General Sitiveni -Fiji
Montt, General Efrain Rios -Guatemala
Salassie, Halie -Ethiopia
Salazar, Antonio de Oliveira -Portugal
Somoza, Anastasio Jr. -Nicaragua
Somoza, Anastasio, Sr. -Nicaragua
Smith, Ian -Rhodesia
Stroessner, Alfredo -Paraguay
Suharto, General -Indonesia
Trujillo, Rafael Leonidas -Dominican Republic
Videla, General Jorge Rafael -Argentina
Zia Ul-Haq, Mohammed -Pakistan


Source


Even Saddam was seen as an ally along with OBL.

So please tell me again how far fetched an idea it is for this man to be just as bad as Saddam
0 Replies
 
Redheat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:54 am
cdcart wrote:
hmm...
you know you are right... the mighty US does control all things, all the time, unless a democrat is in office. Would that be accurate?


Do you have anything with substance and thought to offer the discussion?

Quote:
As a researcher and hypnotherapist I have worked with people who claimed to have been abducted by extraterrestrials. I have interviewed UFO researchers, scientists, authors, and people who claim to have secret information.


Laughing Laughing Laughing OH yeah that's relevant to the discussion Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:54 am
Whatever. Just another case of liberal outrage over a nothing incident that has not been thouroughly investigated or reported on.
0 Replies
 
Redheat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:55 am
McGentrix wrote:
Whatever. Just another case of liberal outrage over a nothing incident that has not been thouroughly investigated or reported on.


I've noticed when you have nothing to offer that you come back with "whatever" and then go into the usual liberal bashing. How typical.

yawn
0 Replies
 
cdcart
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:56 am
I do have some substance and thought...

Regarding the other story mentioned that was reported by the Sydney Morning Herald - Pooh really does stink!
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:58 am
I added what I added, you have deemed it to not be worthy of your "intellectual standards" and keep coming back with the same tired crap. I'll not keep pounding my head against a brick wall. Like all 6 year olds, eventually you just need to let them have their way.

So, carry on.
0 Replies
 
 

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