engineer
 
  3  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2015 04:58 pm
@hawkeye10,
Or, they did understand their place, but it was not what we typically expect. We expected "moderators", someone who kept the debate on an even keel, maintained fairness and appropriateness. I think FOX saw their role as instigators, as the driving force to allow candidates with virtually identical positions to show some energy, differentiate themselves and show they could think fast on their feet.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2015 05:07 pm
@engineer,
Another argument is that if they had behaved as debate moderators rather than reality tv show runners that Trump would have ruined the effort, so they were justified. This is not an argument that I buy, Trump could have been controlled in a debate, the assertion that he could not is a rationalization for a bad act on the part of FOX.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2015 05:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
This time, we agree. If they even wanted the pretense of a debate, each participant would have had the same questions. From what I've seen, that was far from the case.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2015 05:18 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
I think FOX saw their role as instigators, as the driving force to allow candidates with virtually identical positions to show some energy, differentiate themselves and show they could think fast on their feet.


Well then, I can take a swing at you any time I want to test if you are fast on your feet, under your reasoning.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2015 05:46 pm
@hawkeye10,
I think that is complete valid political thought these days.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2015 06:22 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

I think that is complete valid political thought these days.

And we still ask why we cant get good people to run for office..... Drunk
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2015 07:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The three Fox News debate moderators who will be in charge of asking questions of the top 10 Republican candidates at Thursday's event in Cleveland say they aim to take the participants off their prepared talking points and get to what they really believe, Politico reports.

Bret Baier, Megyn Kelly and Chris Wallace have been holding "cram sessions" for the past several weeks trying to refine their questions, Baier told Politico.
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"There are no wallflowers in the group," Wallace said of himself and his two colleagues. "The reason all three of us were chosen is that we're three of the toughest, hardest hitting interviewers in the business.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/fox-debate-moderators-talking-points/2015/08/05/id/665596/#ixzz3iBOPsFkE
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2015 07:46 pm
@hawkeye10,
Interviewers, then - not moderators.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2015 07:51 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

Interviewers, then - not moderators.

Do you get my point that as long as we think candidates have signed up for gratuitous abuse we are never going to get people who are willing to serve? Who the **** are we to bitch about "the clown car" of candidates if this is how we treat them? What were we expecting to get?

And not wanting a boring program was why they had to do this?? That is bullshit. This hurt America, it does not help America as I am sure these smug bastards are thinking to themselves tonight.

And this gets to a central point of mine, we Americans are now a sadistic people.

And I should know.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2015 07:59 pm
@hawkeye10,
That might be a point, but the one I came away with had more to do with ambush journalism. I'm guessing that in the future, they will all make some pointed inquiries into the format before agreeing to appear. To avoid disappearing as candidates, they would then have to publicly explain their failure to agree to show up.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2015 08:03 pm
@roger,
You realize that in essence you are blaming the candidates and the Ohio R party for trusting facebook and Fox. Once trust is gone we are all toast. You need to start paying attention to what is most important.

And a fun 2 hours on TV does not make the list.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2015 08:35 pm
@hawkeye10,
You're kidding?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2015 08:41 pm
@roger,
no. About what are you thinking I am delusional?
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2015 09:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

You realize that in essence you are blaming the candidates and the Ohio R party for trusting facebook and Fox. Once trust is gone we are all toast. You need to start paying attention to what is most important.

And a fun 2 hours on TV does not make the list.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2015 09:28 pm
@hawkeye10,
We will not know for a few days but trump should have been in decline after the debate. I now doubt it. If even FOX could not be persuaded to take the process seriously then why should the rest of us? If the GOP elite let this happen then who the **** are they to bitch that trump is not GOP elite approved? Trump is not good enough but turning a debate into what ever it was we watched last night is fine?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2015 09:29 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:

You realize that in essence you are blaming the candidates and the Ohio R party for trusting facebook and Fox. Once trust is gone we are all toast. You need to start paying attention to what is most important.

And a fun 2 hours on TV does not make the list.


gee, that is sooooo helpful.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2015 01:16 am
Quote:
Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump has been disinvited from a Georgia conference following comments critical of Fox News host Megyn Kelly, sparking a war of words with an influential conservative pundit.

The real estate mogul’s invitation to this weekend’s RedState Gathering has been revoked, according to host Erick Erickson. Trump had been scheduled to appear at a tailgate at the College Football Hall of Fame with the conservative group on Saturday.

“I wanted to have him here as a legitimate candidate, but no legitimate candidate suggests a female asking questions does so because she’s hormonal,” Erickson told reporters early Saturday.

On Friday, Trump told CNN that Fox host Megyn Kelly was “off base” in her questions during Thursday’s Republican debate, in which she pressed him over some of his past remarks on women.

“You know, you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever,” Trump told CNN host Don Lemon.

In a statement, a Trump campaign spokesman criticized Erickson’s decision, pledging to stand by the planned trip to Georgia.

“This is just another example of weakness through being politically correct. For all of the people who were looking forward to Mr. Trump coming, we will miss you. Blame Erick Erickson, your weak and pathetic leader. We’ll now be doing another campaign stop at another location,” he said.

In response to Trump’s statement, Erickson fired back, telling TIME, “I think it’s probably more pathetic to interpret a reporters’ tough question as the product of hormones.”

“To suggest that the person who’s asking him the question has a hormone problem, doesn’t suggest that he’s tough, it suggests that he’s a bully,” he added. He also argued that Trump had “disqualified himself” and said this is “the beginning of the end” of his campaign

http://time.com/3989656/donald-trump-redstate-gathering/
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2015 08:39 am
Did the Big Debate Hurt the Republicans?

The raucous first debate of the 2016 presidential season might not go down in history as a landmark political face off, like the near fisticuffs of William F. Buckley and Gore Vidal in 1968, but it was some of the best political TV in years. It was a retro, bruising free-for-all that belonged in one of Donald Trump’s casinos with cigar-chomping high-rollers placing bets, and the few dames around relegated to the sidelines—if not in furs, then in Carly Fiorina’s rose shantung silk suit.

By now the high and low points are well known: Rubio and Fiorina won, according to the conventional wisdom, with pointed and polite performances. Bush, Cruz, Walker and Kasich held their own. A well-baited Trump bared his misogynist teeth and got ugly with Fox News’s Megyn Kelly. Chris Christie and Rand Paul engaged in a death match of pettiness ending with Paul telling Christie to go hug Obama, “again.” Rick Perry, poor gaffe machine, invoked Ronald Raven. Mike Huckabee announced “The purpose of the military is to kill and break things.” And Ben Carson promised to base the tax code on Old Testament principles.

The weaker candidates might not start falling off the parade float today, but donors and polls will soon begin culling the ones at the back of the pack. Trump might stick around for a while, but the party needs to get him out the door as fast as they can in order to get back to business. But it’s too late, because the debate will be remembered for what he and his colleagues revealed about the GOP’s problems with money and women.

First: money. It’s been said that Republicans, party of the wealthy, are ironically paying the higher price for theCitizens United Supreme Court ruling because more of their donors are pouring more money into more organizations that allow candidates with no chance of being the nominee to stay in the race, weakening the front-runners. And that is true. But that’s not the worst of it. Where other than the Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland on Thursday could one witness the singularly nauseating spectacle of a billionaire with an American flag in his lapel pin boasting that he used the bankruptcy laws to pull his business out of a dying American city before he went down with it, without offering either a word of condolence to the people left behind or a single idea about how to put it back on its feet?

That moment alone should extinguish the sad, misguided hope, noted by Former Labor Secretary Robert Reich recently, that Republican primary voters seem to nurture about Trump’s potential as some kind of class warrior. Trump’s casual comments about ditching Atlantic City in the nick of time remind us why back in the ’80s, Manhattan observers who knew him best called him a short-fingered vulgarian. When Chris Wallace asked him about the four bankruptcies, Trump was prepared with his stock answer. He was “just taking advantage of the laws” to build and maintain his empire.

The millions of Americans who filed bankruptcy when they drowned under their mortgages in the crash understand bankruptcy as an advantageous law. But what Trump did was to share one of the myriad little ways the 1 percent, like him, game the same system. A Trump bankruptcy doesn’t save him from sleeping in his car, it enables him to get even richer while leaving creditors (albeit “killers,” he noted, perhaps to differentiate his lenders from the nice mega-banks that bleed most debtors dry) counting losses to the tune of a billion dollars.

Fair enough, he gamed the system, and his fans admire that about him. But when Wallace asked him about a 2009 bankruptcy filing by Trump Entertainment Resorts, which left thousands of casino workers jobless, and without health and retirement benefits in a dying town, Trump boasted that his bailout was perfectly timed. “Every company in Atlantic city went bankrupt!” he whined. “I had the good sense to leave Atlantic City before it totally cratered. I made a lot of money in Atlantic city and I’m very, very proud of it.”

He didn’t say a word about the 15 percent unemployment rate that exists today in boarded-up Atlantic City.

Having Trump in the race forces Republican primary voters and the rest of the GOP candidates to face up to how Big Money really behaves, in a way that the Democrats cannot offer. Even though Hillary Clinton is second only to Jeb Bush in the money raised by associated SuperPACs, Democratic voters can certainly not count on her to explain what it buys. And Bernie Sanders can yell about it, but he can never demonstrate it as effectively as the short-fingered vulgarian.

Trump acknowledged that he’d donated to politicians of both parties as a sound business investment, to get his calls answered. When asked about donating to Hillary Clinton, he said his money probably “got her to come to my wedding.” The nine fellow candidates—in hock to the tune of tens of millions to businessmen far more discreet than Trump, and with interests that go beyond weddings—already owe countless metaphorical future “weddings” and the race is barely begun.

By boasting that he gave politicians money so they’d return his calls, Trump is a betrayer to the 1 percent, yes, but he’s certainly not a friend to the working class. He can argue that fixing immigration helps some working people, but he put his money where his mouth was when filing bankruptcy as a smart business strategy in Atlantic City and leaving thousands of workers behind to fend for themselves in “cratering” Atlantic City.

What he does provide Republican primary voters—and anyone else watching —is a glimpse into how he and men like him work the system that powers the candidates.

Many of his competitors on that stage were fresh back from an exclusive Koch brothers event in California last week, where they had submitted to being sniffed and poked and having their teeth inspected by unnamed donors deciding which horse to buy. Trump’s presence on the stage beside them put a little blood and color on that and all the other meetings behind the staggering numbers released last week about Super PACs, a full third of it from just 60 individuals, whose largesse is helping make the 2016 campaign the most expensive ever, with a predicted $5 billion price tag.

That’s a whole lotta weddings to attend.

Besides money, the debate last night gave voters a chance to assess how the GOP is dealing with its gender problem. The conventional wisdom was that Carly Fiorina won the “kiddie table” debate, and social media was still buzzing about her poise and ripostes well into the second debate. True, she spoke in crisp, complete sentences, never lost her train of thought and showed a little humor. But no one asked her why she lost the Hewlett Packard CEO spot, even though her rise from management trainee at AT&T to the C-suite is the centerpiece of her self-made woman legend. But this was the second tier debate, and furthermore, she is the only female in the Republican presidential primary. She was never going to take a punch. This will certainly change if she rises in the polls, but Republican men will have to tread carefully around her in order not to raise the War on Women cry.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2015 12:36 pm
The second thing that the R party needs to deal with, other than how pissed off and demoralized america is, is that the people of washington are so low quality and so corrupted that this assumption that Trump cant play this game as well as the pro's may or may not be correct. Anytime in my lifetime before now if we were to put a guy like Trump up against the pro's and the establishment he would have fallen flat on his ass. But the competition aint what it used to be.

I dont like trump, I think he would make a terrible president, but there should be no assuming that he will flame out.

I did not think Trump did well in the debate, but he was not a wash out, which counts as a win because that was the expectation from the elite. Now we see what the public opinion polls say about his performance.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2015 03:24 pm

I did not watch the debates, but I listened to the conclusions of analysts that I trust. I was pleased to hear that the three candidates who won the debates include the two candidates that I like so far.

Those would be John Kasich, who has done an outstanding job running the Ohio government, and Marco Rubio, who has a perfect foreign policy.

I'll have to take a better look at Carly Fiorina (the other debate winner).
 

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