5
   

Can you stump the bible thumper?

 
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 08:37 am
Quote:
I submit, however, that the metaphysical belief system to which you subscribe, for all its good intentions and noble, even needful precepts, violates the standards of logic, reason, and consistency, is incompatible with history, archaeology, paleontology, and geology alike, to say nothing of physics and astronomy (though there is, by historical and archaeological study, indisputable evidence of the antiquity of said belief system) and science alike, and that it is but a superstition wrapped in a self-applied cloak of authority. It is my contention that religion is neither more nor less than that aspect of humankind's social consciousness which attempts to resolve answers to questions unsatisfied by contemporary technology, expand kinship or clan relationships to encompass a larger social tructure and thereby provide basis for soco-political authority, and, ultimately, that religion, particularly as exampled through Western tradition, serves primarily to provide job protection for its shamans.



Although it pains me to say so I agree with Timber.

All religion grows out of the need to explain the unexplainable. It stems from man's innate curiosity about the Universe, but in fact explains nothing, becoming debased as spreads its corrupting influence on the minds of the innocent and exploits power for its own sake.

Apart from that I dont have a problem with religion. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 08:42 am
Please accept my sincerest apologies for any discomfort you have experienced on my account, Steve. Twisted Evil
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 09:36 am
No problem Mr T Smile

Religious people imo fall into two categories, the deluded and the dangerously deluded. The former I can just about take, so long as they keep themselves to themselves but I cannot understand why those religious and cultural ideas which are dangerous to their adherents or to others are tolerated in modern society.

I don't understand why I have to say...."well of course you may do this or that, I understand its part of your culture/religion and in the spirit of understanding, tolerance, and moral equivalence of all religions its quite all right if you"....

are cruel to animals
forbid certain medical procedures
mutilate the genitalia of children
indoctrinate people for the purposes of social control
claim exemption from the civil law on religious grounds
demand to be tolerated by secular society but fail to reciprocate


etc etc.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:02 am
Moishe3rd wrote:
Hey Craven,
Wrong religion. Judaism, not Christianity.


Wrong, I am talking about Judaism and referencing the fact that the rabbis you speak of take a page from Christian geneology-in-lieu-of-science folk.

Quote:
Wrong time frame.


Wrong again, I speak not of the writings but the interpretations dating the age of the earth by tracing geneology to David and Solomon's age.

Quote:
The earliest writings were around 300 CE.



You prevaricate, no, at that time nobody was claiming the world was around 600 years old. Some basic reading skills would help as you are batting 0 for 3 on elementary reading ability so far.

Quote:
But, gotta love those primitive belief systems.


Speak for yourself.

Quote:

Sorry to be so transparent.
(We'll have to reorganize the conspiracy now that you've found us out.
Nuts!


The primitive beliefs have been "found out" for a long time, and I am certainly not the first.

Of course, it needs no "conspiracy" just gullible fools.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:07 am
Setanta wrote:
Craven, the Catholics receive enough deserved criticism, don't blame them for Bishop Ussher, who was Anglican.


Ya know, you are probably right, I decided to look it up and saw that the last time I did this (with Maliagar) I committed the same error from memory.

Incidentally I decided to look up the S issue (two or one) and it seems both are used and even "USSEER". <shrugs>

Anywho, Usher's brainfarts were more interesting to me than his background, as you can see even in this modern age people from diverse primitive beliefs eat up his mental flatulence in their war against science.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:12 am
I was much relieved to learn, though, Boss, that The Lord of Hosts doesn't start his day until late morning (c.f., FM's quote of WJ Bryan). Kinda gives us the early morning hours to use a little stain remover on our souls.

Now why didn't Bishop Ussher come up with that?
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2004 11:17 am
I've been perusing the development of this thread with great feigned interest, and I think I like the idea of a bible being written by Thumper. However, I do object to magically turning the poor bunny into a stump. Killing off Bambi's mother was enough. That's my theory of religion and I'm sticking to it.
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 02:00 am
Re: Can you stump the bible thumper?
Yoda wrote:
Can you stump the bible thumper? http://adwoff.com/ubb/graemlins/blessing.gif

Here's your chance. I believe in Christ and I read the bible, if you wish to ask me of any question concerning God and bible, please do so. If you ask a serious question, you'll get a serious answer. If you are asking a question based on derision, you'll receive an answer based on derision. And if you ask a ridiculous question, you'll get a ridiculous answer.

All I am asking is this, if you want me to take the time to read your question, then please take the time to read my answer. I'm hoping that all you agnostics can be liberal minded, especially if you claim to be a liberal.


How do you justify the Christian God's disdain for pagan scarifices when, according to your twisted moral system, your God had to make his only son into a human sacrifice to save humanity from his own self-decreed moral laws? That is not a kind gesture in my books. Maybe we differ in that regard.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 06:51 am
Timber--There is a whole library of Creationist "science" literature. It usually starts with conventional scientific inquiry or search for evidence, then it takes off on an entirely new tangent and new "facts" about the wonders of Creation become self perpetuating by commission of the sin of ipsedixitism , wherein the researcher begins to quote himself ad nauseum. Then, by the 4th or 5th paper, (usually published in the Craetion Science Bulletin), the "scientist " becomes a free standing expert and never had to have their work looked at by a skeptical peer review process.
Thats how Austen created his theory that the Grand CAnyon was cut by a massive release of glacial meltwater and was conseequently carved in a year or so. This was used to help refute the argument that the world is old. Austen published a whole lot of tripe about thsi and it got good earplay, even on PBS. then some geomorphologist from SUNY made the comment
"well ok, lets say it only took X weeks to carve, how long do you think it took to lay down all the layers of sediment that were carved into?"

Silence from Austen
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 09:46 am
Yeah, fm, I'm quite aware of Comic Science. I'm a card-carrying member of The JERF.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 01:23 pm
Re: Can you stump the bible thumper?
IronLionZion wrote:
How do you justify the Christian God's disdain for pagan scarifices when, according to your twisted moral system, your God had to make his only son into a human sacrifice to save humanity from his own self-decreed moral laws? That is not a kind gesture in my books. Maybe we differ in that regard.


Akshully, ILZ, that you might pose such a question indicates unfamiliarity on your part with the core concept of Christianity. Reserving judgement re validity of same, I will note that the Christ Sacrifice is allegorized and specifically described as "The Ultimate Sacrifice", obviating further need of blood sacrifices or burnt offerings, a covenant of sacrifice between Man and God. I note too, however, that while the act pretty much put finished to God's feeling of being obligated to sacrifice, it was not by any means expressed or implied that all human sacrice thereby was satisfied ... there is that tithe thing, and of course, the general all-around call for folks to avoid partying to excess or otherwise havin' to much fun, and of course the need for man to bear his earthly hurts and ills in order to gain entry into heaven. Pretty one-way-street, do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do sorta deal, if you ask me.
0 Replies
 
Thor
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2004 05:15 am
Quote:
1) The [subject of] forbidden relations may not be expounded in the presence of three, nor the work of creation in the presence of two, nor [the work of] the chariot in the presence of one, unless he is a sage and understands of his own knowledge.


63. To question and answer | must all be ready
Who wish to be known as wise;
Tell one thy thoughts, | but beware of two,--
All know what is known to three.

~ Hovamol (Ballad of the High One-- Old Norse Codex Regius)
0 Replies
 
extra medium
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2004 07:21 pm
Yoda,

I am shocked and disappointed. You make a bold statement/question such as "Can you Stump the Bible Thumper" then proceed to not answer all the stump questions posted here.

Are you stumped on the questions you didn't answer?
0 Replies
 
dauer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2004 03:57 pm
Hello. I'm new. I'm not going to defend the infallibility of the bible because it was written by the hand of man. But I did want to clarify something:

Quote:
You prevaricate, no, at that time nobody was claiming the world was around 600 years old. Some basic reading skills would help as you are batting 0 for 3 on elementary reading ability so far.


That was Craven, I think? Sorry if I got your name wrong. I do have this info here:

Quote:
The Tannaim (sages of the late Second Temple Period and the century after the destruction) calculated the date of Creation. They did so by basing their work upon the Bible's account of lifetimes and kingdoms, thereby determining the period of time from Creation to a known date, in this case, the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 C.E.

Many rabbis attempted this task, but the method attributed to Rabbi Yossi ben Halafta, a second century C.E. sage, is the one which gained popularity. He calculated "molad tohu"--"birth from nothing"--to be in the fourth hour of Monday, October 7, 3761 B.C.E. (according to the Gregorian calendar used in the secular world today).


Not only that, but:

Quote:
The Seleucid and Mundane Eras coexisted for numerous centuries. Most often, Rav Sherira Gaon--the last Gaon, the head of the academies in Babylonia in the centuries following the editing of the Talmud--is given the credit for suggesting the use of BeHaRD as the basis for a chronological system, in the 10th century C.E.


BeHaRD is birth from nothing. It's an acronym for something, but it's really not worth repeating; just some numbers. It does mention Bishop Usher and dates him at 1654 which would be way past Rabbi Yosi Ben Halafta in the second century CE. CE is the same as AD but doesn't carry the same religous tone to it because it just means common era.

This is the link:

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/holidays/About_Jewish_Holidays/Solar_and_Lunar/CountingYears.htm

So we've been dating that way since the 10th century CE and we had that date since the 2nd century CE. Well, go back to refuting the bible.

Dauer
0 Replies
 
Yoda
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jul, 2004 02:14 am
extra medium wrote:
Yoda,

I am shocked and disappointed. You make a bold statement/question such as "Can you Stump the Bible Thumper" then proceed to not answer all the stump questions posted here.

Are you stumped on the questions you didn't answer?


Yeah, I now... I bit off more then I can chew, and it is clear to me that I cannot compare in the english vocabulary with some people here because I lack the education. (English flunky=me)

I'm just way to busy to get to all the questions, I didn't realize what kind of traffic this site would have either. Another words, I bow-out of this thread.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jul, 2004 08:40 am
Caught you off guard, did we, Yoda? To paraphrase the Monty Python crew, "NOBODY expects the A2K Inquisition!" Mr. Green

Well, I for one acknowledge and appreciate your coming right out and saying so. Now you understand why its generally a good idea to check out the pond before diving in Laughing

I dunno that you should bow out; I gotta say I think your interaction is a valuable contribution to the overall discussion, even if the discussion has developed other than you had thought it might. Stick around as yor schedule permits - you might learn something, and so might we. :cool:
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jul, 2004 04:48 pm
Don't go away, Yoda. We still like you.
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Yoda
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jul, 2004 07:49 pm
Quote:
"NOBODY expects the A2K Inquisition!"


Shocked


Don't fret, I bowed out to the thread, not the forum. I'm starting to like this place. There was way too much traffic in this thread for me to keep up with. I was kinda hoping that some of my other Christian comrades would have jumped in and try answering some of these really good questions.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jul, 2004 09:05 pm
I have to add that I saw a dog that looked like Yoda a couple of weeks ago and thought of you right away! It was 1/2 boxer and 1/2 sharpei... what a darling!
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IwantTheTruth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Apr, 2013 11:08 pm
@Yoda,
Why do people call the begotten son Jesus when his name is yahshua
0 Replies
 
 

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