Craven de Kere wrote:Setanta wrote:
(CdK, where'd all the freaks come from today?)
Dunno, I can only speak for myself and Gus.
I came from a fetid claustrophobic* womb. Gus from a swamp. Me 'n Gus have an unspoken understanding that they are, in essence, the same damn thing.
* Abusage welcoming a challenge.
Certainly..
FOETID?????
How do you claim to know what the womb of the kind and long-suffering woman who bore you SMELT like?????????????????
What with infant amnesia and such.
If it stunk, who do you think stunk it up?
You!
And, wombs having no consciousness, they cannot experience claustrophobia.
In a previous topic, you said that Jesus's death was prophesied in the old testament... can you tell me the exactly were I am very curious (I am christian)
Yoda wrote:The reason you do not understand the answer is, because you do not understand your question.
I understand it fully well, and i've heard endlessly that old red herring about preserving his lineage. I simply wanted to assure myself that you had fully boughten into the hateful, patriarchal crap that fills Genesis. No further information needed.
Were Abraham found today on top of a high place, with a knife at his son's throat, speaking to an imaginary being away off in the sky, he'd be a candidate for the rubber room, as well he ought. Were Lot to be discovered in that cave with his daughters, he'd be subject to prosecution, and rightly so. The desire of the faithful to justify execrable acts is more than evidence enough that they've abandoned decency in the fervor of their fanaticism. I've read that silly book through and through, most often in the context of reading unreliable, highly prejudiced historical accounts which are corroborative of the fuller accounts of more important civlizations. But your answer supplies me exactly what i need in the way of assessing your fanatical attitudes. It is obvious that you consider that silly book to be revealed truth.
You and i have nothing further to discuss.
I always liked the part when the alleged angel visited Lot. Justifiably, the inhabitants of a walled town in an unsettled region wanted to know who he was letting into town. His response? He shoved one of his daughters outside to distract the ctowd. The books of Judges, Samuel and Kings are the portions in which a real history--highly unreliable because of the evident prejudices of the authors--begins. The entire work is a product of the education and awareness of a broader world which came to the people of Judah during the Babylonian captivity, which likely was an historical event. They heavily ripped off the popular creation and origins myths they encountered in Babylon (notably, the story of Gilgamesh), and they created a good deal from whole cloth. The stories of Abraham, Lot and many, many others with which they lard the text, and upon whom they preen themselves of the excellence of these scum-bags characters are ample evidence of the debased, self-centered, paternalistic excesses to which they were given, and the low degree of civilized behavior which they exhibited. It is truly disgusting to see the fundies embrace these paragons of puerile ego-centrism as great men, and examples of righteous men.
If I was Job I would have used my threefold new wealth to build myself an impregnable fortress, with just a hole to be opened from within. Out the hole, twice a day, at unspecified times, I would moon my God then quickly vanish within.
heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee . . .
okbye
Yoda wrote:Moishe3rd wrote:Yoda wrote:Jim wrote:OK - here's an honest question. It's one that's bothered me for years. The OT says that God loved Jacob but hated Esau (sorry - I don't have a Bible offshore so I can't give you chapter and verse). I can understand God hating Esau's actions and attitudes, but I can't see God hating Esau himself. What do you think?
This was the split of the Jewish and Muslim religion. God hated the works and disobedience of Esau, (hate is not a sin) God loves His creation, but His creation did not love Him, at least not all of His creation. This is why some are judged with such evil and cast into the lake of fire. And don't get me wrong, being a Muslim does not mean God hates you. You are judged by your works and saved by grace.
Jesus was born and crucified so that whomever has a repented heart and follows God's commandments will live in the next life. There are two kinds of people that get to live in the next life, those that are His bride, and people who served God as if they knew him, they are those that obeyed the law that was written in their hearts. It is those of a wicked and un-repented heart that will be cast into the lake of fire. Only God knows the hearts of all men.
(I lurk, trailing behind.... unable to resist the awful temptation of correction.... Oh, woe is me....)
The Sages (the Rabbis, of which there are thousands upon thousands extending back three thousand years) tell us that Yishmael was the Father of the Arab race. And whereas many of Esav's descendants did mix and mingle with the descendants of Yishmael and therefore also become of the various tribes of the Middle East, Esav's line goes to the founding of Rome, not Arabia.
Esav hates Yaakov translated to (Esav) Rome hates Israel and went on to (Esav) the Roman Catholic Church hates the Children of Israel. It turned out that was indeed the case.
The good news is that when Esav supports Yaakov, it is the times of Moshiach (the Messiah).
I stand corrected, I mixed up Esau with Ismael. It's been a while since I have studied Genesis and I am also a little intoxicated.
Rock on, a drunken Christian to debate with. Reminds me of my honeymoon in Ireland.
The Rude Clown wrote:Rock on, a drunken Christian to debate with. Reminds me of my honeymoon in Ireland.
Watch it with the ethnic stereotypes, there, Boyo . . . i know where you live . . .
Yoda wrote:edgarblythe wrote:Please explain if you believe the Bible literally about Job. Does God really think he made things all right when he restored health and wealth to him? I don't recall that his murdered (by God and Satan) relatives and servants were brought back to life. What sort of justice was that, just to prove a point in a wager of God and devil? Why did Job have to cower to God, telling him he was no more than a worm before him? If he was no more than a worm why was he important to God and the Devil in the first place? Huh, mister?
It's not like anything your saying, God did not murder Job's family, nor force Job to cower. Job acted out the way he did, he choose to curse the world and himself, because he did not understand what was happening to him.
Job is believed to be the oldest book in the bible, and even some believe Job to be a "fairy tail". But I don't believe it's a fairy tail.
Job is a perfect example of how we learn to deal with things that we do not understand nor deserve. In the end, Job was made perfect in the eyes of God. God only allowed Satan the authority to destroy Job's world as to prove to Satan how wrong he is. Job was paid back 10 fold for what he endured, as for the evil God allowed, even I have a hard time understanding it.
I also believe God is forever learning just as we are, perhaps God wanted to learn for himself. If God gives you everything so that you may believe in Him, if Satan takes it from you, will we still believe in God?
I finally understand Conservatives, corporate America, and the tired old phrase "Get a Job, freeloader."
Setanta wrote:The Rude Clown wrote:Rock on, a drunken Christian to debate with. Reminds me of my honeymoon in Ireland.
Watch it with the ethnic stereotypes, there, Boyo . . . i know where you live . . .
Oh, I was talking about the wife, not the Irish. Tee hee..
In all honesty, the Irish we met were extremely skittish talking religion, for amazingly good reasons. Why we feel the need to debate it here in this manner just indicates a prosletyzing, morally bankrupt McReligion rampant in the US, made palatable by reducing complex lessons into convenient soundbites. McNuggets a la Jesus. Anyone want Freedom Fries and Mary Magdelene dipping sauce with that?
Could you get me an order of those Jawbone of an Ass crispy fries?
OK, Yoda, I'll play. Please resolve the contradiction presented by the assertion in Ecclesiates 1:4, wherein it is stated the earth shall abide forever though 2Peter 2:10 clearly declares the earth shall be consumed by flames (Armageddon), and, as claimed variously yet unambiguously in Ezekiel 30:3, Joel 3:14, Obadiah 1:15, Zephariah 1:14, John 5:25-29, 1John 2:18, 1Peter 4:7, and James 5:8, among other citations I'm too lazy to continue looking up, imminently and in short order (which really doesn't give the meek, promised inheritance of the earth in Mat 5:5, much to look forward to), and as further confused by Jesus' own statement as purported through Mark 13:32 wherein he claims to know not the hour or day God has set for the end of the world, despite the founding, central, defining, mission-critical fact he himself is purported to be God, hence by self-affirmed definition omniscient, while in Matthew 24:34 and in Luke 21:32, Jesus is quoted as saying the world would end before the generation of the disciples was over, amplified by his purported statement that some of those to whom he was speaking at the time would be alive when his kingdom returns, as quoted in Mark 9:1, Matthew 16:27-28, and Luke 9:26-27.
Please note that neither an an aswer of "Allegory" or "Faith" will satisfy.
Quote:Science has recently concluded that our gene pool says that the human race all started off with the same two parents. And that Neanderthal man has a different genetic make-up.
Extra-biblical claim without citation. Please provide citation, please.
Patio will know better than i, but i recall having read that Neanderthalis may in fact survive in our gene pool, that Cro Magnon may have bred with them. Have you any comment, PPD?
As far as I know, the question of whether Neanderthal genes live on is unresolved. I'm more curious about the "2 parents" claim. That would be a startlingly small founder population. And even so, I've seen nothing to indicate that modern humans originate in the areas where or at the times when they cohabited with Neanderthals (Europe and the Middle East). Again, only as far as I know. I just want to see a citation if we're going be mixing science and religion.
