1
   

well it's over

 
 
SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jul, 2004 10:33 pm
Oh, I definitely agree with that, but you can't dismiss a character flaw as a bad choice. Everyone has character flaws that (hopefully) we are trying to overcome. Even if we are aware of a flaw, and make decisions counter to it the problem is still not yet solved. Character and personality take time to change. That is why I say that it would not have saved the relationship if she had made one decision differently, and she shouldn't beat herslelf up thinking that that is the case. She should accept what has happened and prepare for the future.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jul, 2004 10:36 pm
I can't argue with that.
0 Replies
 
SueZCue
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2004 04:34 am
I've noticed that most people who replied to Mchalel's first thread or two no longer bothered to even acknowledge more recent ones. She came on here seemingly seeking advice, got pretty much the same advice over and over again, which was "leave him alone." Still, she seemed to be compelled to pursue, harrass and try to force this guy into staying in a relationship with her. Isn't that a "stalker" mentality?

Then she's blubbering about him dumping her. DUH!!! Wonder why!

I think the only thing she wanted from this board was validation, and when people didn't say what she wanted to hear, she did what she was going to do anyway, just like she did in her relationship. Nothing mattered except what she wanted.

If most people clearly don't want to be bothered with that personality type on a message board, can you imagine the hell her ex must have been put through?

Poor guy must have been up partying all night celebrating his new-found freedom from all that pestering!

I hope Mchalel gets some professional help. She needs to realize as a result of what happened in this particular situation that you can't force people to do what you want them to do. She didn't respect his wishes or keep her word, and she was so busy trying to manipulate the situation for her own personal gain that she didn't see what was coming when everyone else tried to warn her. She seemed to be preoccupied with what she wanted and that's all that mattered. What her ex wanted or needed seemed to be of no concern to her. He understandably got sick of it and bailed.

I hope she takes some time off and does some soul-searching for awhile before she gets into another doomed relationship and drives another unsuspecting person nuts. There's nothing wrong with having had an unsuccessful relationship, we all have had them. That's how we grow. However, most people use them as a learning tool to help make their future relationships run more smoothly.

Unfortunately, I doubt that will be the case with this person.

She has yet to learn the value of consideration, acceptance and compromise, which are vital components of any kind of a relationship, be it in the workplace, with our friends or a romantic relationship.

Regardless, I wish her the best of luck.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2004 10:22 am
consequences
SueZCue wrote:

Quote:
Then she's blubbering about him dumping her. DUH!!! Wonder why!


Absolutely!

Mchalel unrealistically convinced herself because she was the prettiest, best in bed woman her boyfriend ever had that he would tolerate her abuse and never leave her. She obsessively sought reassurance that she was the prettiest and best by torturing him over his past. She thought because he LOVED her so much, that she could emotionally torture him without suffering the consequences.

Mchalel thought her boyfriend would keep her on a pedestal, apologetically indulge all of her emotional tantrums, make her the mother of his children, and adoringly stay with her forever.

She knew she was abusing him, she knew that her behavior was causing him extreme anguish, she knew everyone was advising her to give him space--but she thought her tears and constant pestering would bring him back to her.

Mchalel underestimated the power and control that her feminine wiles had over him.

He communicated with her in a mature and rational manner. He told her how he felt and what he needed to make the relationship work. But, she did not consider HIS needs and she continued to abuse him. He had to break up with her in order to salvage his emotional well-being.

Mchalel's boyfriend was an emotionally battered man, and as much as he loved her, he made the only decision he could make under the circumstances.

Mchalel lost a strong, mature, rational man. But, I don't think she wanted a strong, mature, rational man. I think she wanted a blubbering mouse that she could spin around by the tail and that would continue to come back for more abuse for the mere privilege of licking her feet.

When Mchalel figures out that she wants a real man in her life instead of a mouse that feeds her obsessive need for ego boosting, then she might have a chance for finding true happiness in a healthy relationship.

I wish her the best as she struggles to gain maturity and perspective.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2004 11:46 am
SueZCue & Debra
I whole heartedly agree with you both. I've been on the recieving end of this form of abuse and it was torture.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2004 11:00 am
kleptomania
SCoates wrote:
Oh, I definitely agree with that, but you can't dismiss a character flaw as a bad choice. Everyone has character flaws that (hopefully) we are trying to overcome. Even if we are aware of a flaw, and make decisions counter to it the problem is still not yet solved. Character and personality take time to change. That is why I say that it would not have saved the relationship if she had made one decision differently, and she shouldn't beat herslelf up thinking that that is the case. She should accept what has happened and prepare for the future.


SCoates:

The first step to resolving a problem is to accurately identify the problem.

For instance, kleptomania is an obsessive impulse to steal regardless of economic need. If my best friend is a kleptomaniac and every time we go shopping together she steals something, then she places me at risk. Accordingly, I have choices:

I can choose to end the friendship, I can choose to never shop with her again, or I can choose to continue shopping with her and risk that I could be arrested as her accomplice. I can only control my choices--I cannot control hers.

It doesn't matter if you "characterize" the problem as a "character flaw" or a series of "bad choices." You have to go deeper than the label you place upon the problem and identify the problem itself.

Mchalel has a self-destructive, obsessive impulse to emotionally torture her boyfriend over HIS PAST due to her own irrational insecurities. She wants to be constantly reassured that she is the prettiest, best in bed, most-loved woman her man ever had. No matter how many times her man has reassured her, it is never enough. She needs to constantly feed her obsession and emotionally torture her man with her insecurities until she gets the next fix--the next dose of ego-boosting.

So long as her boyfriend continues to stomach all her abuse, acts like a fearful blubbering idiot afraid of losing her, and gives her the reassurance she demands, she thinks she has the "upper hand" in the relationship. Then she knows (at least temporarily until she obsesses again and the cycle repeats itself), that she is the prettiest, best-in-bed, most-loved woman, and that he will never leave her because she has him wrapped around her warped finger.

Now, we have identified the problem. ONCE the problem is identified, then a solution must be found. Solutions require choices.

Mchalel's boyfriend could no longer deal with her problem because it caused her to be abusive to him and this emotionally drained him. He can express how he feels and express what he needs to make the relationship work. She never listened to him, she never heeded his feelings and needs. He can't force her to change; he can't fix her. Accordingly, he made the only healthy choice he could make for himself--he broke up with her.

Mchalel still hasn't identified the problem. Even today, she posted that she is "amazed" that he left her--she thought she had the "upper hand" in the relationship. This is frustrating to those of us who have tried to help her.

Mchalel might never identify the problem. Perhaps that is the "character flaw" that you are talking about. But, until she accurately identifies the problem--there will be no solution--there will be no healthy choices for her to make. She will be doomed to repeat the problem in her future relationships.

I hope that won't happen, but in all of mchalel's posts, I have not witnessed any progress in her thought processes....time will tell.
0 Replies
 
SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 05:03 pm
Re: kleptomania
Debra_Law wrote:
SCoates wrote:
Oh, I definitely agree with that, but you can't dismiss a character flaw as a bad choice. Everyone has character flaws that (hopefully) we are trying to overcome. Even if we are aware of a flaw, and make decisions counter to it the problem is still not yet solved. Character and personality take time to change. That is why I say that it would not have saved the relationship if she had made one decision differently, and she shouldn't beat herslelf up thinking that that is the case. She should accept what has happened and prepare for the future.


SCoates:

The first step to resolving a problem is to accurately identify the problem.

For instance, kleptomania is an obsessive impulse to steal regardless of economic need. If my best friend is a kleptomaniac and every time we go shopping together she steals something, then she places me at risk. Accordingly, I have choices:

I can choose to end the friendship, I can choose to never shop with her again, or I can choose to continue shopping with her and risk that I could be arrested as her accomplice. I can only control my choices--I cannot control hers.

It doesn't matter if you "characterize" the problem as a "character flaw" or a series of "bad choices." You have to go deeper than the label you place upon the problem and identify the problem itself.

Mchalel has a self-destructive, obsessive impulse to emotionally torture her boyfriend over HIS PAST due to her own irrational insecurities. She wants to be constantly reassured that she is the prettiest, best in bed, most-loved woman her man ever had. No matter how many times her man has reassured her, it is never enough. She needs to constantly feed her obsession and emotionally torture her man with her insecurities until she gets the next fix--the next dose of ego-boosting.

So long as her boyfriend continues to stomach all her abuse, acts like a fearful blubbering idiot afraid of losing her, and gives her the reassurance she demands, she thinks she has the "upper hand" in the relationship. Then she knows (at least temporarily until she obsesses again and the cycle repeats itself), that she is the prettiest, best-in-bed, most-loved woman, and that he will never leave her because she has him wrapped around her warped finger.

Now, we have identified the problem. ONCE the problem is identified, then a solution must be found. Solutions require choices.

Mchalel's boyfriend could no longer deal with her problem because it caused her to be abusive to him and this emotionally drained him. He can express how he feels and express what he needs to make the relationship work. She never listened to him, she never heeded his feelings and needs. He can't force her to change; he can't fix her. Accordingly, he made the only healthy choice he could make for himself--he broke up with her.

Mchalel still hasn't identified the problem. Even today, she posted that she is "amazed" that he left her--she thought she had the "upper hand" in the relationship. This is frustrating to those of us who have tried to help her.

Mchalel might never identify the problem. Perhaps that is the "character flaw" that you are talking about. But, until she accurately identifies the problem--there will be no solution--there will be no healthy choices for her to make. She will be doomed to repeat the problem in her future relationships.

I hope that won't happen, but in all of mchalel's posts, I have not witnessed any progress in her thought processes....time will tell.


And we disagree how? Smile
0 Replies
 
 

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