2
   

The media is misreporting this. This misogynist man deserves to go to jail.

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Thu 13 Aug, 2015 05:00 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
they're not east of the law.


a French saying?
Olivier5
 
  0  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 02:19 am
@hawkeye10,
Sorry, I mean any imagery or speech is legal in my country, as long as the intention is NOT to spread racial hatred. In particular, it is understood that racist imagery can be highjacked, as Dumas and Charb have done, to turn the table on racists.

Likewise, if one guy says to another "you're my nigga" in a non-racist way, just to crack a joke or something, I don't see a problem. Cultures have a way of turning around phrases and images, of recasting the linguistic dices, of constantly recycling old cliches and ideas into radically new ones. That's why banning certain words -- while understandable when the word has very negative connotations -- is ultimately futile. To paraphrase Fresco, a word is just a token used to communicate a large number of possible meanings. The meaning will depend on the context, and such a meaning is more important than the word itself.

Somebody mentioned "word fetishism" yet?
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 02:36 am
@izzythepush,
Just because I am right more often than you are, and just because you have no argument whatsoever in this particular case, doesn't mean that I am a bad person... It's just mean you are in the wrong league.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 03:26 am
@Olivier5,
There you go declaring victory again, or as Spendi used to call it marking your own homework.

Occasionally, when you understand what is being discussed you may be right, but most of the time it just shoots over your head.
Olivier5
 
  0  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 05:01 am
@izzythepush,
Come on! You're unable to make ANY argument. That's pitiful, as debating capacity goes.

Will Self does not explain his "fetish" title, other than say that not only freedom of speech but freedom in and by itself is treated as a fetish by westen civilization. I can see the begining of an argument being stated, which is that there can be no perfect and absolute freedom, but nobody ever proposed anything like that, not even Charlie. It's at best a misunderstanding, at worse a blisfully ignorant and condescending perspective on a French sub-culture that you guys find difficult to grapple with.

In the anglophone sphere, Sarah Silverman comes close to what this culture is about.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 05:07 am
@Olivier5,
No. I've given a link to Self's article. You don't get it so there's nothing to debate.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 05:11 am
@izzythepush,
And I've read that link, mind you, but glad to report that there's nothing there to support the use of the word "fetish".

A label does not an argument make. The issue (political, philosophical) of freedom is complex to say the least, and rest assured that the French have no illusion on the possibility of absolute freedom. Our laws punish any expression of racism, and much better than yours I would think given the rampant anti-Frenchism of your tabloids.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 05:20 am
@Olivier5,
So, there is no migrant camp in Calais, there is no strike in Calais, and the chunnel is adequately policed?

Any anti- French message in our papers is in response to what the French actually do.

If you want to be treated with respect fulfil your international obligations.
Olivier5
 
  0  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 09:50 am
@izzythepush,
The English tabloids slightly mental obsession with us frogs dates from donkeys' years.

You're against strikes? Very Thacherian of you. You think we should kill all the migrants who mass up at Calais?

When did the French vouch to never ever strike, and to always contain any international migration crises?
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 10:10 am
@izzythepush,
Oliver argues by attrition, by trying to wear someone down. His victory is the victory of a spoiled child being ignored after flogging the same nonsense over and over and over.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 10:20 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Especially if my contradictors never make any serious attempt at an argument... Razz
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 10:34 am
@Olivier5,
Whats to argue: Oliver5's lampooning of a black woman as a primate is racist.

If you are too stupid or insensitive to comprehend it, that's your shortcoming not mine or Izzy's.
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 10:58 am
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Oliver argues by attrition, by trying to wear someone down. His victory is the victory of a spoiled child being ignored after flogging the same nonsense over and over and over.


Exactly.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 11:08 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
You're against strikes? Very Thacherian of you. You think we should kill all the migrants who mass up at Calais?


I'm against aggressive secondary picketing, and ineffective policing. Now you're talking about mass slaughter. Where do you get these ideas, Charlie Hebdo?

Zeebrugge does not have the problem Calais has. We should be using British taxpayer's money to expand Zeebrugge. In the end it will pay for itself, France is the sick man of Europe, a complete basket case and should not be allowed to drag the rest of the continent down with it.

A lot of your countrymen agree and are voting with their feet.


Quote:
The land of 400 cheeses, the birthplace of Molière and Coco Chanel, is facing an unprecedented exodus. Up to 2.5 million French people now live abroad, and more are bidding “au revoir” each year.

A French parliamentary commission of inquiry is due to publish its report on emigration on Tuesday, but Le Figaro reported yesterday that because of a political dispute among its members over the reasons for the exodus, a “counter-report” by the opposition right-wing is to be released as an annex.

Centre-right deputies are convinced that the people who are the “lifeblood” of France are leaving because of “the impression that it’s impossible to succeed”, said Luc Chatel, secretary general of the UMP, who chaired the commission.

There is “an anti-work mentality, absurd fiscal pressure, a lack of promotion prospects, and the burden of debt hanging over future generations,” he told Le Figaro. However, the report’s author Yann Galut, a Socialist deputy, said the UMP was unhappy because it had been unable to prove that a “massive exile” had taken place since the election of President François Hollande in 2012.

What is certain is the steady rise in the number of emigrants across all sections of society, from young people looking for jobs to entrepreneurs to pensioners.
According to a French Foreign Ministry report published at the end of last month, the top five destinations are the UK, Switzerland, the US, Belgium and Germany. The French consulate in London has estimated that up to 400,000 French nationals live in the capital, a number equal to the population of France’s sixth largest city.

The Foreign Ministry recorded 1.6 million expats at the end of last year. But that figure only includes people who had registered at French consulates abroad. “So the real figure is twice as high,” says Hélène Charveriat, the delegate-general of the Union of French Citizens Abroad.

She told The Independent that while the figure of 2.5 million expatriates is “not enormous”, what is more troubling is the increase of about 2 per cent each year.

“Young people feel stuck, and they want interesting jobs. Businessmen say the labour code is complex and they’re taxed even before they start working. Pensioners can also pay less tax abroad,” she says.

France’s unemployment rate is hovering around 10 per cent. As for high-earners, almost 600 people subject to a wealth tax on assets of more than €800,000 (£630,000) left France in 2012, 20 per cent more than the previous year. Manuel Valls, the Prime Minister, announced in London this week that the top income tax rate of 75 per cent would be abolished next January after a number of business tycoons and celebrities moved out.

Mrs Charveriat said the French exiles she had spoken to might agree “a bit” with Andy Street, the managing director of John Lewis who was forced to apologise after saying that France was “finished, sclerotic and downbeat”.

“But people aren’t pessimistic,” she added, stressing that the French who live abroad remain patriotic and that while they engage in “French-bashing” among themselves, they are defensive when foreigners engage in such criticism.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/french-say-au-revoir-to-france-over-two-million-french-people-now-live-abroad-and-most-are-crossing-the-channel-and-heading-to-london-9788348.html
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 11:34 am
@izzythepush,
Jeez. He keeps expanding the scope hoping to find one semi-salient point to hang his "victory" on.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 12:34 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Whats to argue: Oliver5's lampooning of a black woman as a primate is racist.

When Ô when did I "lampoon a black woman as a primate"????
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 12:37 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Oliver argues by attrition, by trying to wear someone down. His victory is the victory of a spoiled child being ignored after flogging the same nonsense over and over and over.

Exactly.

You mean I don't give up as soon as you do?

How come your own persistent arguing (without an argument, still) are perfectly okay and not mine? :-))
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 12:48 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Zeebrugge does not have the problem Calais has. We should be using British taxpayer's money to expand Zeebrugge.

Be my guest. You allowed yourself to become too dependent on one single link to the continent and now you regret it...

Still, i don't think the migrants crisis is easier to deal with in Calais than elsewhere in the EU, eg Greece or Italy. Maybe we should just ship them across the channel and let you smart asses deal with them.

0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 12:49 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
To be fair, it's Izzy who changed the topic.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Fri 14 Aug, 2015 06:38 pm
@Olivier5,
Who do you think you are Alexander Dumas?
 

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