South Carolina Flag

@edgarblythe,

I am saying it cannot be lowered to half mast. It certainly can be removed from the memorial that it currently flies at, but it cannot be lowered. In addition, since it is not an "official" SC flag, it did not need to be lowered to half mast along with the others.

This is simply the case of people thinking there is some hidden meaning over the fact that a confederate battle flag, flying over a confederate memorial was not lowered when the simple truth is that it cannot physically be lowered to half mast.

Now whether it should be flying at the memorial which is on state capital grounds is another argument. But it flies there after a compromise between the NAACP and the state of SC years ago brought it down from above the capital. (A decision, btw, that I fully supported. It should never have been flying about the capital.)

1 Reply

@CoastalRat,

It can and should be brought down, as far as I am concerned, but I will not spend the day arguing the point.

Andy Borowitz
2 hrs ·
Nation Responds to Horrific Gun Violence with Serious Discussion of Flags

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@edgarblythe,

ditto. The arguments "for" keeping it up are deeply felt and, in my mind, dead wrong but I dont think I want to turn this into a multi page nyah nyah and "I am always right" fest.

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@edgarblythe,

Personally, I don't care whether it stays where it is or comes down. It impacts me not one iota. Both sides of this issue have valid points. From an historical perspective, I believe it is fine where it is. It flies at a confederate memorial, which is basically a historical exhibit. The only point of contention for me is that this memorial is on the state house grounds. Maybe the entire memorial should be relocated and then I think nobody would have a problem. But, the placement of the flag is what everyone agreed upon years ago. So I don't see why it is now suddenly an issue. That flag being there did not cause someone to walk into a church and kill people. Why people are trying to connect the two is beyond me.

1 Reply

@CoastalRat,

Quote:

That flag being there did not cause someone to walk into a church and kill people. Why people are trying to connect the two is beyond me.

What??? The killer himself connected the two.

The Confederate flag is a symbol of racial hatred, and it has always been a symbol of racial hatred. That is why hateful people (whether they are murderers or not) rally around it.

Show me an American white supremacist group that doesn't use the Confederate flag?

http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/06/21/us/21website-web/21website-web-master675.jpg

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I can fly a football club cloth whenever I like . THAT cloth over the memorial is not a flag . Someone show me where it has official recognition as a flag . I have only found recognition of it as a battle "flag" which makes it like a units colours or standard . Even so, it has no official recognition as a flag .

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@maxdancona,

I also see sunglasses and youth . Maybe we should ban sunglasses ? Or lock up our youth till they are old "enough" ? I also see pot plants....maybe they are Triffids !!! But did anyone argue he shouldn't have a gun ?

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

The Confederate flag is a symbol of racial hatred, and it has always been a symbol of racial hatred. That is why hateful people (whether they are murderers or not) rally around it.

Hate groups do indeed like that flag. However, they are not the only ones who like it. There are also a bunch of non-hateful southerners who see the flag as a symbol of their culture.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

The state legislatures, like many racists,

Nonsense. They are hardly racists.

farmerman wrote:

blindly refuse to acknowledge that many people find it offensive.

And rightly so. Just because some extremists choose to adopt the flag as a symbol of their hate, and then some opposing extremists decide to hate the flag, that shouldn't prevent non-extremists from enjoying the flag as a non-hateful symbol.

farmerman wrote:

Instead, they use even more racist "phrases" to justify it.

I've not heard anyone use racist phrases to justify the flag.

I suppose the racists do so. But that doesn't mean that the non-racists use such language.

farmerman wrote:

"Its a symbol of our heritage".

And it is.

farmerman wrote:

Actually its a symbol of their "heritage" of slave holding for the official 4+ years that the Confederacy was in existence.

It is a symbol of southern culture in general.

farmerman wrote:

ACtually the Star and Bars was adopted in 1861 and the flag flown over the memorial, "The Stainless Flg" was not dopted till 1863. SO the heritge issue is just a linguistic crutch

It was actually the battle flag of only a single militia outfit (Northern Virginia I believe). However, this does not change that it has since become symbolic of southern culture in general.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

There are also a bunch of non-hateful southerners who see the flag as a symbol of their culture.

But why that flag, the battle flag of the Confederate States, specifically?

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@oralloy,

The "Army of Northern Virginia" was some hick outfit commanded by some hick named Lee.
They used "The Stainless Flag" as a battle flag after it hd been used as THE Confederacy Flag for a year.

Quote:

. Just because some extremists choose to adopt the flag as a symbol of their hate, and then some opposing extremists decide to hate the flag, that shouldn't prevent non-extremists from enjoying the flag as a non-hateful symbol

Thought that all up yourself? You should write speeches for Chris Christie. He seems to relish these sorta Orwellian jaunts into literary nonsense

Quote:

"Its a symbol of our heritage".

And it is.

Thats because you take slave holding as something over which to reminisce

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@farmerman,

And man for man they were better soldiers than those clowns from the north...you know, the ones who fought the war to prevent succession but later claimed it was to free the slaves .

Quote:

Thats because you take slave holding as something over which to reminisce

That's quite a bit of hypocrisy coming from someone like you who hates anyone of a different opinion . You want the respect of an ol' time Masser but you aint worth the time of day .

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@Ionus,

I love people who have different opinions. I only hope they can back them with facts. (Something you lack in your spouts)
The word was "Secession"

Quote:

And man for man they were better soldiers than those clowns from the north

Relax, Whenever I may wish to argue about the Civil War, trust me, Ill never pick you for an opponent, Id be laughing too hard .

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@farmerman,

Quote:

The word was "Secession"

There you have it . Gomer cant spell one syllable words but has the hypocrisy to pick on others . You didnt mention my arse...what is happening to us Gomer ? Dont you love me anymore ?

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Oralboy wrote:

. Just because some extremists choose to adopt the flag as a symbol of their hate, and then some opposing extremists decide to hate the flag, that shouldn't prevent non-extremists from enjoying the flag as a non-hateful symbol
Thought that all up yourself? You should write speeches for Chris Christie. He seems to relish these sorta Orwellian jaunts into literary nonsense

Agreed, Oralboy's argument could be applied to the swastika. It's an esoteric symbol that had been around for years before a bunch of extremists decided to adopt it.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/78463000/jpg/_78463616_aircraft624.jpg

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/78463000/jpg/_78463617_swastika_comp624.jpg

Fruit packaging, a Coca-Cola pendant, and a pack of cards, all from the US.

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@izzythepush,

Those symbols can really kill cant they ? Nine out of ten people who die from non-real causes die from symbolism . Did it cross your bird size brain that one way to defeat the evil done under those symbols is to continue with them as normal symbols ?

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Agreed, Oralboy's argument could be applied to the swastika. It's an esoteric symbol that had been around for years before a bunch of extremists decided to adopt it.

Actually it was just one, who presented it at first in 1920. The bunch of extremists adopted it soon later, and 13 years (resp. 15 years partly, 1935 completely) afterwards it became (part of) the national flag etc

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@maxdancona,

With all the racial hatred present in Boston ( recall the busing riots), I don't recall the display of the Confederate flag by any of the crowds. If this flag is a symbol of race hatred why didn't the Boston Irish wave it during their riots?

The flag of Ireland is frequently found on many lawns throughout the Commonwealth of Mass, while at the same time, the US flag is banned from outdoors display in many of these Commonwealth towns. The latter towns prohibit the display of the US flag on Condo lawns and even on the lawns/front porches of individual homes.

That's something to be very concerned about.

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@Miller,

The "troubles" are motly over. Besides, any private organization may impose whatever rules it wants in how flags are displayed(other than the rules for display of the American flag), and WHAT flags may be displayed.
Condo associations all over often fprbid rge US flags , certain religions, (like AMISH) dont allow displays of ANY flags.
The Stainless flag is a clear symbol of racist hatred. I dont see many skinheads displaying the US flag in their selfies do you? usually they hold a confederate flag in one arm an a Swastika in the other. The Knights Flag (with the cross and drops of blood, is usually next to the podium.

This heraldic nitpicking is silly. The confederate flag is clearly racist in intent. Those too stupid to acknoledge this are either skinheads themselves or believe that crap about "Their heritage"

Why not base symbols of their "heritage " on something positive??

Im just curious as to how Mississippi is going to take all this, after all, their state flag IS the entire stainless flag of some of the first confederacy national symbols

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@farmerman,

In my opinion, many Southerners whose ancestry predated the Civil War have that WASP habit of waxing nostalgic about ancestors (that ethnics can't often have, since their families often came here post 1850) that lived during the times when life was harder. That means they might just think of the ante bellum South as a time that their ancestors made a region of the country function. So, in the spirit of a win-win resolution, the question might be, what can be substituted for the Confederate Flag that would allow Southerners to give themselves the feeling that they honor their ancestors? Perhaps, a genealogical type chart showing the governors since a Southern state first had statehood? And then displayed prominently in front of state buildings? There has to be a way to let one segment of a Southern state value their ancestors without the need to erase them from everyone's memory.

I do remember a movie about the Vietnam Era and there were images of the Confederate Flag above a foxhole with soldiers. Knowing the marksmen ability of many Southern whites, I would have been happy to be in that foxhole, rather than in a foxhole with preppie types from a northern state. How soon we forget that their supposed idosyncracies had a value. So, I do not think that any present or future racist sentiments won't find a way to express itself symbolically, even if there were no more Confederate Flags in the world.

1 Reply

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