NEA endorses Kerry

rabel22 wrote:

I notice that most on this site blame teachers for all our education problems.

Can you point out one single post where anyone has blamed teachers for the entire set of problems with the education system? I've yet to see one such post so I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion that it's what "most people on this site" believe.

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I can answer for some parents do not help their children as much as they used to. It is because the homework the children bring home is harder than anything we had in school.

However, I do agree that a fundamental change needs to happen in American families where we get back to simpler things and more steady lifestyles that are benificial for children and adults. Everything is too fast paced and activity packed.

Typical parents have to get up before day light and rush to get ready and rush to get their kids ready and try to feed them a little something that is not too bad for them but is quick and easy and then rush to either take them to school or to the day care then rush to their jobs. Then it's backwards later in the day; only you add on school activities, or job social dinners or church social activities and then right before bed time you try to help kids with their homework. And this is the lucky middle class families.

The poorer the family the worse it is for quality time that a parent can spend with their children. A single mother has to work and try to find some kind of day care that she can afford; if not she will have to leave the child the alone with the TV and other less than desireable entertainments. Junk food and other unhealthy food is cheaper and takes less time. Those kinds of eating habits makes kids over weight plus sluggish. More than likely when the single mother gets home she will be too tired from standing on her feet all day to be much help for the kids's homework even if she could understand it.

That is why social programs that address those issues are so important. Every time I read someone say something like, "less government interference" or "what good does it do to throw more money at them" I just want to scream in frustration.

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Re: NEA endorses Kerry

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Letty wrote:
The National Education Association has endorsed Kerry ...
Quote:

You're kidding? Who would have expected that?

It's almost as surprising as learning that ebrown_p was a teacher.

What amazing turn of events could be next?

An endorsement from the NY Times?

Good job on associating ebrown and teacher in order to make them both seem like dirty, liberal things. Teachers suck as we all know. It's soldiers that are important, and you can't grease a war machine with a well educated
population.

BiPo you do go on.

"Dirty, liberal things:" your words not mine.

All teachers don't suck, but they are almost all liberal.

My brother is a teacher and a damned good one. I have friends today who were my teachers of the past, and they too are liberals, but they are not the sort of liberal jackasses who want to turn every discussion into some expression of conservatives as war mongers.

All liberals are anti-American traitors: All conservatives are bestial war mongers.

There's a dichotomy in which you should take comfort.

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Re: NEA endorses Kerry

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

[
BiPo you do go on.
"Dirty, liberal things:" your words not mine.
.

just me speaking out loud what you inferred in so many words...who ya foolin? No one......

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Re: NEA endorses Kerry

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
[
BiPo you do go on.
"Dirty, liberal things:" your words not mine.
.

just me speaking out loud what you inferred in so many words...who ya foolin? No one......

No, you inferred based upon your own bias. I implied no such thing. I would never attempt to fool a fool.

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ebrown_p wrote:

I have shown why the interests of teachers and students are the same.

LOL, no, you have not. Yopu have posted nothing but opinion.

Fact: The NEA represents teachers, not students.

Fact: Bad teachers hurt students

Fact: The NEA protects bad teachers.

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ebrown_p wrote:

The real data is given here:
http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard//pubs/main1999/2000469.asp

ROTFLMAO, the NAEP is the data set that shows Bushs exceptional leadership in education reform works. Most liberals now say the NAEP is flawed, because the alternative is to admit Bush's education policies worked in Texas better than anything previous.

So if you really care about kids, you should be square behind Bush's "no child left behind"!

Now back to reality, SAT scores have shown a steady decline, they even added 100 points to sat averaging a few years ago to bump up the overall scores.

More to the point, if there is NO education decline, then there is no reason for smaller class size, higher pay, or any other NEA recommendation either, is there?

Also more to the point, any parent that can afford it should put there kid into private school. Not doing so is tantamount to child abuse.

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Letty wrote:

and what, exactly, is R&D?

Research and development.

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Told colorbook that I would write a political poem, soooooooooo:

Research and Development? Zounds!
But not all teachers are clowns.
Finn's in like flynn,
Karzak is no quack,
All fury without any sounds.

Did that work? Bet not, but it is an attempt to restore the quality of humanity in this thread.

Actually, if anyone works for a living, they have a vested interest in group support whatever it is. Probably a lot of people out there doing research who only care about the grant money.

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If you want to make the point that education is in decline, you must show data that back it up. This means you need to give comparable groups of students the same or very similar tests so you can make a valid comparison.

SAT's are not a good comparison. For one thing, the group of kids that are taking the SAT's has radically changed over the years. It was a test for a select group of college bound kids. Now it is a test that a majority of high school kids take. If you compare the best students self-selected 20 years ago with the majority of kids today one would expect that the former group would perform better.

Educational experts realize that using SAT's scores to determine trends in achievement is foolish. They simply aren't designed or suitable for this purpose.

There are tests including that NAEP tests that attempt to do this. They control for these factors to get a scientific, objective measure. Well designed objective tests simply do not show a decline in educational performance in the last 30 years. If you want to dispute this, I expect you to have numbers to back this up.

Likewise, American students do very well against students in any country when they are pitted against comparable groups. I will post a link when I have the time to find it again.

Finally, you should understand the difference between fact and opinion. Facts can be backed up with measurable data-- like evolution for example.

This is much different from your rather negative opinions of teachers.

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ebrown_p wrote:

There are tests including that NAEP tests that attempt to do this. They control for these factors to get a scientific, objective measure. Well designed objective tests simply do not show a decline in educational performance in the last 30 years. If you want to dispute this, I expect you to have numbers to back this up.

So you agree that Bush's education plan is the best thing for america, since it resulted in a significant rise in the Texas NAEP test scores?

And you, by saying everything is fine in US education, agree that issues like class size and teacher pay are pointless?

And why do you keep talking about teachers? I am talking about the NEA, a teachers union. There are some good teachers, there are some bad teachers, there are some teachers I wish I had when I was 14 like that hottie that was just arrested, instead I got mediocre old ladies who fell asslep in class, but they were tenured!

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ebrown_p,

How does a competency test for teachers effect their teaching ability?

You said "It is very difficult to make the argument that required competency testing is in the interest of kids. These tests away classroom time and lessens meaningful learning experiences. It has been shown to lower critical thinking skills. There are no studies that show any benefit that has come from this type of regionally mandated testing. There are many studies that show that it hurts learning experiences. "

We make students take competency tests regularly, why should the people teaching them be exempt?

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Karzak,

Can you provide the data you are using to back up this "significant rise" in NAEP scores in Texas. If I remember right, there was a "significant rise" in the TAAS scores that critics attributed to the questionable practice of providing test answers to teachers. The scores and improvements in Texas for the NAEP were typical of the country (which contradicted the questionable results.)

Incidently, Texas is doing (and was doing) some good things in education in spite of Bush in the areas of curriculum and fairness.
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I keep talking about the NEA because the NEA gets its voice and authority from the teachers who vote for its board, pay its dues and mostly support its positions.

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McGentrix,

You are right the tests for teachers and tests for students are different issues. I am against high-stakes tests for students because they are bad for students.

I took a teacher test and found it annoying.

I graduated magna cum laude with a degree in Physics. Before I started teaching I wrote reasearch papers and worked with nuclear materials. In all of my well-paid responsible positions, I never had to take a test to show I was "proficient".

The Massachusetts teacher test had me taking a dictation and writing the definition of a preposition (I am not joking). I took this 7 hour ordeal on my own expense for the priveledge of being underpaid for a very trying job.,

I guess I am not deeply opposed to teacher proficiency tests other than that I found the experience demeaning.

McGentrix, if for your next job interview, before they will consider you for the position, they make you pay $100 to sit down and take a dictation from a recorded paragraph you might understand.

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I taught in New York state for 5 years. I know all about tests and standards. I am also 100% behind competency tests for teachers as all too often the teachers do not keep their skills updated. They repaetedly use the same lesson and unit plans year after year after year.

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http://edworkforce.house.gov/edwatch/edwatch2001/080201.pdf

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http://www.theadvocates.org/freeman/9607bova.html

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http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/1998/dec98/teachers.html

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McGentrix wrote:

I taught in New York state for 5 years. I know all about tests and standards. I am also 100% behind competency tests for teachers as all too often the teachers do not keep their skills updated. They repaetedly use the same lesson and unit plans year after year after year.

and they don't check their own work apparently.....

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
I taught in New York state for 5 years. I know all about tests and standards. I am also 100% behind competency tests for teachers as all too often the teachers do not keep their skills updated. They repaetedly use the same lesson and unit plans year after year after year.

and they don't check their own work apparently.....

Nope, they just run kids through the mill with a minimum of effort.

Oh well, those who can't, teach.

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...and those who can do, because they CAN'T teach.

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NEA endorses Kerry

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