0
   

THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 02:10 pm
www.m-w.com
Quote:
Main Entry: sys·tem·at·ic
Pronunciation: "sis-t&-'ma-tik
Function: adjective
Etymology: Late Latin systematicus, from Greek systEmatikos, from systEmat-, systEma
1 : relating to or consisting of a system
2 : presented or formulated as a coherent body of ideas or principles <systematic thought>
3 a : methodical in procedure or plan <a systematic approach> <a systematic scholar> b : marked by thoroughness and regularity <systematic efforts>
4 : of, relating to, or concerned with classification; specifically : TAXONOMIC
- sys·tem·at·i·cal·ly /-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb
- sys·tem·at·ic·ness /-tik-n&s/ noun

Main Entry: use·ful
Pronunciation: 'yüs-f&l
Function: adjective
1 : capable of being put to use; especially : serviceable for an end or purpose
2 : of a valuable or productive kind <do something useful with your life>
- use·ful·ly /-f&-lE/ adverb

Main Entry: 1shel·ter
Pronunciation: 'shel-t&r
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
1 a : something that covers or affords protection <a bomb shelter> b : an establishment providing food and shelter (as to the homeless) c : an establishment that houses and feeds stray animals
2 : a position or the state of being covered and protected <took shelter>
- shel·ter·less /-l&s/ adjective

Main Entry: 2shelter
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): shel·tered; shel·ter·ing /-t(&-)ri[ng]/
transitive senses
1 : to constitute or provide a shelter for : PROTECT <has led a sheltered life>
2 : to place under shelter or protection <sheltered himself in a mountain cave>
3 : to protect (income) from taxation
intransitive senses : to take shelter
- shel·ter·er /-t&r-&r/ noun
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 02:13 pm
Pah!

Quote:
As I have previously posted more than once:
Osama implied it 2/28/98.


IMPLIED being the operative word. You are spinning this, Icann - OBL never claimed (or even stated) to have anything to do with Saddam.

Quote:

Powell claimed it 2/5/2003.


This one can go right up there with the claims that Iraq had WMD by Powell (was it the same day? It very well may have been....)

Quote:

NBC claimed it 3/20/2004.


You no doubt have links to this, so I don't have to go searching for them, right?

Quote:

9-11 Commission's Notes claimed it 8/12/2004.


No, they didn't. You have interpreted them that way; others have interpreted them differently.

Quote:
Also, Debra Burlingame (the sister of the pilot of the airliner that was crashed into the Pentagon) in her WSJ Op-ed claimed it, with specific references to the 9-11 Commission Notes, 9/29/2004.


Fantastic. Nice to know that someone's OPINION is matching yours. This has nothing to do with PROOF, and also the main evidence for this refers to a point which you have already brought up.

Now, everyone you have listed vs. the vast majority of other analysts and politicians.... lemme see.... I'm going to go with the majority opinion on this one over your opinion, Icann, b/c you simply don't have conclusive evidence to back it up.

Quote:
You bet I do! Please, please, please write a more complete argument why you think there is not any evidence of ... sheltering AQ in Iraq. Also, replace the word systematic with the word useful. I doubt that kind of sheltering was systematic even in Afghanistan: chaotic but useful, yes; systematic, no.


Don't play word games with me. Iraq didn't provide any consistent or long-term support for AQ and had no formal ties with them. As I've said before; our ties to AQ are as well-understood and present as Iraq's.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 02:16 pm
Ican wrote
Quote:
The Saddam's sheltered al Qaeda.

Figment of your imagination
ican wrote
Quote:
The Saddams murdered innocent Iraqis


None of our Business. The same insurgents that are now fighting the coalition should have fought for their freedom, if they wanted it. IMO It is not worth the loss of even one [1] American life. And certainly not over 1000 killed and 27000 grievously wounded.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 02:55 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
..IMPLIED being the operative word. You are spinning this, Icann - OBL never claimed (or even stated) to have anything to do with Saddam.


From Osama's 98 Fatwa:
Quote:
Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there. The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel's survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula.


I claim this statement (plus other mentions of Iraq in his Fatwa) reveal a high regard for Iraq, that contradicts allegations that he had low regard for Iraq. Osama's opinion that Iraq was "the strongest neighboring Arab state" was based on something more than its size or geography. I infer some kind of a growing informal but useful relationship.

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:

Powell claimed it 2/5/2003.


This one can go right up there with the claims that Iraq had WMD by Powell (was it the same day?


Yes it was the same day. Oh now, I understand your reasoning. If Powell was wrong about WMD on 2/5/2003 then he was wrong about everything else he said 2/5/2003. Well then, I have shown you to be wrong about your assertion here today re: NOONE. Shall I then conclude you are wrong about everything else you assert today?

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:

NBC claimed it 3/20/2004.


You no doubt have links to this, so I don't have to go searching for them, right?


I'll post it again here after this post.

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:

9-11 Commission's Notes claimed it 8/12/2004.


No, they didn't.

Yes they did, in their notes (e.g., re:Zarqawi).

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
Also, Debra Burlingame (the sister of the pilot of the airliner that was crashed into the Pentagon) in her WSJ Op-ed claimed it, with specific references to the 9-11 Commission Notes, 9/29/2004.


Fantastic. Nice to know that someone's OPINION is matching yours. This has nothing to do with PROOF

I was responding to your "NOONE" claim. Debra certainly is someone. As far as proof is concerned: what you have posted thus far has nothing to do with proof either. I have yet to claim here proof of anything. All I have claimed here is the existence of evidence to support my allegations.

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
You bet I do! Please, please, please write a more complete argument why you think there is not any evidence of ... sheltering AQ in Iraq. Also, replace the word systematic with the word useful. I doubt that kind of sheltering was systematic even in Afghanistan: chaotic but useful, yes; systematic, no.


Don't play word games with me. Iraq didn't provide any consistent or long-term support for AQ and had no formal ties with them. As I've said before; our ties to AQ are as well-understood and present as Iraq's.


What you said before are merely your allegation(s).

It is you who are playing word games with me. You stick in the adjective systematic before the word sheltering, when all I have claimed is sheltering. "Frankly Charlotte (oops, Cyclo Smile ), I don't give a damn" whether the sheltering was systematic or not; I only care if the sheltering was useful. I claim that is all that is relevant to what we should be doing to protect our security.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 03:10 pm
posted 9/21/2004; post #921465
[empasis added]

[b]au1929[/b] wrote:
BUSH REJECTED PLANS TO GO AFTER TOP TERRORIST

... according to NBC News, it was Bush who in 2002 and 2003 rejected three plans to strike and neutralize Zarqawi because he believed a successful strike would undermine the public {e.g., his UN} case for targeting Saddam Hussein.

As NBC News reported, "Long before the war, the Bush administration had several chances to wipe out his terrorist operation and perhaps kill Zarqawi himself - but never pulled the trigger." In June 2002, the Pentagon drafted plans to attack a camp Zarqawi was at with cruise missiles and airstrikes. The plan was killed by the White House. Four months later, as Zarqawi planned to use ricin in terrorist attacks in Europe, the Pentagon drew up a second strike plan, yet "the White House again killed it." In January 2003, the Pentagon drew up still another attack plan, and for the third time, the White House killed it.[3]

According to NBC, "Military officials insist their case for attacking Zarqawi's operation was airtight, but the administration feared destroying the terrorist camp in Iraq could undercut its case for war against Saddam."[4]

Zarqawi is thought to be at least indirectly responsible for hundreds of U.S. casualties. Just yesterday, Zarqawi's terrorist group beheaded an American civilian in Baghdad.[5]

Sources:

1. "President's Remarks to the General Conference of the National Guard Association of the United States," The White House, 9/14/04,
http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3382691&l=56809.
2. "Going after Iraq's most wanted man," The Christian Science Monitor, 9/21/04, http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3382691&l=56810.
3. "Avoiding attacking suspected terrorist mastermind," NBC News, 3/02/04, http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3382691&l=56811.
4. Ibid, http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3382691&l=56811.
5. "Zarqawi Group Beheads U.S. Hostage Armstrong," Reuters, 9/20/04,
http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3382691&l=56812.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 03:36 pm
au1929 wrote:
Ican wrote
Quote:
The Saddam's sheltered al Qaeda.

Figment of your imagination


You posted otherwise 9/21/2004. What changed your mind?

(As you may know I have subsequently reposted your post here several times. See above for my latest reposting.)

au1929 wrote:
ican wrote
Quote:
The Saddams murdered innocent Iraqis


None of our Business. The same insurgents that are now fighting the coalition should have fought for their freedom, if they wanted it. IMO It is not worth the loss of even one [1] American life. And certainly not over 1000 killed and 27000 grievously wounded.


Others here have urged we intervene immediately with governments in Africa that are murdering the people they govern. Had we intervened more promptly in Nazis Germany's "Final Solution", we would have saved millions of lives including tens of thousands of our own. What you clearly fail to understand is that we are confronted today with the equivalent horrific tradeoff of human life. Either we quickly intervene at the high cost of our and other's human life, or even far more human life including ours will be killed or "greviously wounded."

That's our reality! Got any ideas for how to change that?
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 03:57 pm
Ican
As usual you select that which you think will help you in the spread of you Bull $hit
If you had bothered to read the listed links you would have found the following

Quote:
In the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, top US officials such as Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Secretary of State Colin Powell cited Zarqawi as a full-fledged member of Al Qaeda, who they claimed had been injured in a post-9/11 US airstrike in Afghanistan and later had a leg amputated in a Baghdad hospital. That treatment, they said, bolstered claims of close ties between Al Qaeda and the regime of Saddam Hussein.

But analysts - as well as German and Italian government court documents in cases against Zarqawi associates - say it's clear now that while Zarqawi has had contact with Al Qaeda members in the past, he has sharp tactical differences with the organization and appears to be operating a wholly separate network. Shadi Abdallah, a Zarqawi associate arrested on charges of running a terrorist cell in Germany, has told interrogators that Zarqawi saw himself as a rival of Al Qaeda, not an ally.US officials now say they don't believe he lost a leg, and analysts such as Gunaratna say there is no evidence he had ties to Hussein's regime.

While he was operating inside Iraq prior to the invasion, US officials say most of his activities were in the autonomous Kurdish region in the north, where he mingled with members of Ansar al-Islam, a radical Kurdish group who operated in an area beyond Baghdad's control and was largely scattered by US airpower at the start of the war.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 04:07 pm
ican711nm
Trying to equate the actions of Nazi Germany with Saddam and Iraq is beyound the pale. No sense discussing anything with you. It's back to scrolling your posts.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 04:34 pm
deleted
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 04:39 pm
au1929 wrote:
Ican
As usual you select that which you think will help you in the spread of you Bull $hit


It was your entire NBC post that I reposted. Did you not post it originally to help yourself spread your "Bull $hit" about Bush?

Now let's discuss a piece of your latest post:
Quote:
While [Zarqawi] was operating inside Iraq prior to the invasion, US officials say most of his activities were in the autonomous Kurdish region in the north, where he mingled with members of Ansar al-Islam, a radical Kurdish group who operated in an area beyond Baghdad's control and was largely scattered by US airpower at the start of the war.


Who are these "US officials" who say this?

Zarqawi is alleged by "US officials" to be currently eluding our efforts to capture him in the Bagdad area while he leads al Qaeda people there. Obviously, the report by "US officials" that US airpower largely scattered the Ansar al-Islam Kurdish group doesn't apply to Zarqawi and his people. Zarqawi and his group are reported by "US officials" to be active and not "largely scattered" in Iraq in the Bagdad area.

Do these "US Officials" still insist that "in an area beyond Baghdad's control" means without Bagdag's knowledge and sheltering? How do they know? How do you know? What's your evidence? Zarqawi was also reported by "US Officials" to have traveled to Afghanistan prior to the invasion of Afghanistan to give assistance to the al Qaeda there.

Based on what is happening now and what happened before the invasion of Iraq, your allegations and some "US Officials's" are far less credible to me than those references I've given, including your post above.

Yes, I realize you can make the reverse allegation. But what is your reason for rejecting evidence contrary to your present theory? Mine is, your theory does not make sense in the context of all that has happened and is happening in Iraq since al Qaeda set up its camps in Afghanistan.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 04:46 pm
What the hell is the use. You did not bother to read the associated link. Hell what's the use I will do what most are doing. Scroll,Scroll.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 04:49 pm
au1929 wrote:
ican711nm
Trying to equate the actions of Nazi Germany with Saddam and Iraq is beyound the pale. No sense discussing anything with you. It's back to scrolling your posts.


I was equating the actions of Nazi Germany with the both the actions to date and the stated objectives of al Qaeda.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 04:59 pm
au1929 wrote:
What the hell is the use. You did not bother to read the associated link. Hell what's the use I will do what most are doing. Scroll,Scroll.


You seem not to comprehend the probability of your own fallibility and the fallibility of many of your sources. Yes, the same could be said of me and my sources. However, it isn't true, since I damn well know that I am fallible and my sources are as well.

Yes, I think there is growing evidence that I'm correct that the Saddams sheltered al Qaeda and, would have, if not stopped, helped al Qaeda evolve to become even more dangerous to us than they were in Afghanistan. But, I am not yet certain of that. That is why I continue to debate the issue.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 05:24 pm
RICE MISLEADS AGAIN ON IRAQ'S NUCLEAR PROGRAM

The New York Times revealed yesterday that top administration officials grossly mislead the public about Iraq's supposed nuclear weapons program.[1] The government's top nuclear scientists said that the aluminum tubes Iraq had acquired were "too heavy, too narrow and too long" for use in creating nuclear weapons.[2] They were perfectly suited, however, for use in Iraq's existing legal rockets.[3] Meanwhile, National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice went on CNN before the invasion of Iraq and said the tubes "are only really suited for nuclear weapons programs."[4]

In October 2003, David Kay - the administration's handpicked weapons inspector - concluded, "We have not uncovered evidence that Iraq undertook significant post-1998 steps to actually build nuclear weapons or produce fissile material."[5] Stunningly, appearing on talk shows yesterday morning, Rice continued to insist that Iraq may have been pursuing nuclear weapons and that the aluminum tubes may have been involved in that process. On ABC's "This Week" Rice said, "As I understand it, people are still debating this."[6] David Albright, the president of the Institute for Science and International Security, said Rice "is being disingenuous, and just departing from any effort to find the truth."[7]

Sources:

1. "How the White House Embraced Disputed Arms Intelligence," New York Times, 10/03/04, http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3382691&l=60492 .
2. Ibid., http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3382691&l=60492 .
3. Ibid., http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3382691&l=60492 .
4. "Ritter Meets With Iraqi Leaders," CNN, 9/08/04, http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3382691&l=60493.
5. "Statement by David Kay ," CIA, 10/02/03, http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3382691&l=60494.
6. "Rice: Iraqi nuclear plans unclear," MSNBC, 10/03/04, http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3382691&l=60495.
7. Ibid., http://daily.misleader.org/ctt.asp?u=3382691&l=60495 .
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 04:04 am
Ican wrote:

Quote:
Yes, I think there is growing evidence that I'm correct that the Saddams sheltered al Qaeda and, would have, if not stopped, helped al Qaeda evolve to become even more dangerous to us than they were in Afghanistan. But, I am not yet certain of that. That is why I continue to debate the issue.


Well, hang on. Here's the latest view from no less than Don Rumsfeld.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/05/politics/05rumsfeld.html

Give up the delusion.

Joe
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 07:12 am
Yes, on our TV news today, Donald Rumsfeld admitted that he knew of no evidence linking Al-Qaida with Saddam Hussein.

Now there's a surprise.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 07:16 am
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7053-2004Oct4.html?nav=hcmodule

Bremer Criticizes Troop Levels
Ex-Overseer of Iraq Says U.S. Effort Was Hampered Early On
By Robin Wright and Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, October 5, 2004; Page A01


The former U.S. official who governed Iraq after the invasion said yesterday that the United States made two major mistakes: not deploying enough troops in Iraq and then not containing the violence and looting immediately after the ouster of Saddam Hussein.
Ambassador L. Paul Bremer, administrator for the U.S.-led occupation government until the handover of political power on June 28, said he still supports the decision to intervene in Iraq but said a lack of adequate forces hampered the occupation and efforts to end the looting early on.
"We paid a big price for not stopping it because it established an atmosphere of lawlessness," he said yesterday in a speech at an insurance conference in White Sulphur Springs, W.Va. "We never had enough troops on the ground."

Bremer's comments were striking because they echoed contentions of many administration critics, including Democratic presidential nominee John F. Kerry, who argue that the U.S. government failed to plan adequately to maintain security in Iraq after the invasion. Bremer has generally defended the U.S. approach in Iraq but in recent weeks has begun to criticize the administration for tactical and policy shortfalls.

In a Sept. 17 speech at DePauw University, Bremer said he frequently raised the issue within the administration and "should have been even more insistent" when his advice was spurned because the situation in Iraq might be different today. "The single most important change -- the one thing that would have improved the situation -- would have been having more troops in Iraq at the beginning and throughout" the occupation, Bremer said, according to the Banner-Graphic in Greencastle, Ind.
A Bremer aide said that his speeches were intended for private audiences and were supposed to have been off the record. Yesterday, however, excerpts of his remarks -- given at the Greenbrier resort at an annual meeting sponsored by the Council of Insurance Agents and Brokers -- were distributed in a news release by the conference organizers.
In a statement late last night, Bremer stressed that he fully supports the administration's plan for training Iraqi security forces as well as its overall strategy for Iraq.

"I believe that we currently have sufficient troop levels in Iraq," he said in an e-mailed statement. He said all references in recent speeches to troop levels related to the situation when he arrived in Baghdad in May 2003 -- "and when I believed we needed either more coalition troops or Iraqi security forces to address the looting."

He said that, to address the problem, the occupation government developed a plan that is still in place under the new interim Iraqi government.

Bremer also said he believes winning the war in Iraq is an "integral part of fighting this war on terror." He added that he "strongly supports" President Bush's reelection.

The argument over whether the United States committed enough troops to the mission in Iraq began even before the March 2003 invasion.
Prior to the war, the Army chief of staff, Gen. Eric K. Shinseki, said publicly that he thought the invasion plan lacked sufficient manpower, and he was slapped down by the Pentagon's civilian leadership for saying so. During the war, concerns about troop strength expressed by retired generals also provoked angry denunciations by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and Gen. Richard B. Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

In April 2003, for example, Rumsfeld commented, "People were saying that the plan was terrible and there weren't enough people and . . . there were going to be, you know, tens of thousands of casualties, and it was going to take forever." After Baghdad fell, Rumsfeld dismissed reports of widespread looting and chaos as "untidy" signs of newfound freedom that were exaggerated by the media. Rumsfeld and Bush resisted calls for more troops, saying that what was going on in Iraq was not a war but simply the desperate actions of Baathist loyalists.
In yesterday's speech, Bremer told the insurance agents that U.S. plans for the postwar period erred in projecting what would happen after Hussein's demise, focusing on preparing for humanitarian relief and widespread refugee problems rather than a bloody insurgency now being waged by at least four well-armed factions.

"There was planning, but planning for a situation that didn't arise," he said.

A senior defense official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said yesterday that Bremer never asked for more troops when he was the administrator in Iraq -- except for two weeks before he left, when he requested forces to help secure Iraq's borders.

Bremer said in his speech that the administration was clearly right to invade Iraq. Though no weapons of mass destruction have been found, he said, the United States faced "the real possibility" that Hussein would someday give such weapons to terrorists.

"The status quo was simply untenable," he said. "I am more than ever convinced that regime change was the right thing to do."
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 07:34 am
I think this is morally indefensible.

What this is saying is "they might one day do us harm, so we've got to blow them up now."

Let's bring it closer to home: it's known that most felons re-offend, so when releasing them from prison after their sentence, if we just killed them the crime rate would drop dramatically.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 09:03 am
McTag wrote:
I think this is morally indefensible.

What this is saying is "they might one day do us harm, so we've got to blow them up now."

Quote:
Let's bring it closer to home: it's known that most felons re-offend, so when releasing them from prison after their sentence, if we just killed them the crime rate would drop dramatically.


That is it in a nutshell about the complete stupidity of the whole Iraq war excuse.

The reason I posted the link though was to point out that even those who still agree with the war think Bush and company did a lousy job at it.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 09:59 am
Icann Wrote:
Quote:
From Osama's 98 Fatwa: Quote:
Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there. The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel's survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula.


I claim this statement (plus other mentions of Iraq in his Fatwa) reveal a high regard for Iraq, that contradicts allegations that he had low regard for Iraq. Osama's opinion that Iraq was "the strongest neighboring Arab state" was based on something more than its size or geography. I infer some kind of a growing informal but useful relationship.


Your inferrence is built more upon hope than upon any real words said. All OBL was saying was that the US wanted to take out Iraq, and he was using that as proof to other Muslims that we are imperialist.

Anything more than that is read in there by you in order to support your, frankly, weak case (which is built around only a very few people/pieces of evidence).

An 'informal but useful' relationship? You are playing word games in order to support your sh*tty argument.

Quote:
Yes it was the same day. Oh now, I understand your reasoning. If Powell was wrong about WMD on 2/5/2003 then he was wrong about everything else he said 2/5/2003. Well then, I have shown you to be wrong about your assertion here today re: NOONE. Shall I then conclude you are wrong about everything else you assert today?


If Powell was relying on the same intelligence that was so drastically wrong when he made both the WMD and the AQ claim (which he undoubtedly had to have been, right?), then yes, everything that they claim is suspect - our intelligence agencies proved themselves to not have a f*cking clue that day about what was going on in Iraq.

Only you could take a speech in which practically everything which was said has been conclusively proven to be incorrect and hold it up as proof for your side. It's a claim I've made before; you hunt-and-peck for your arguments despite evidence that contradicts them.

Quote:
It is you who are playing word games with me. You stick in the adjective systematic before the word sheltering, when all I have claimed is sheltering. "Frankly Charlotte (oops, Cyclo ), I don't give a damn" whether the sheltering was systematic or not; I only care if the sheltering was useful. I claim that is all that is relevant to what we should be doing to protect our security.


The word systematic is important, b/c if AQ agents are hiding out in Iraq, and the gov't doesn't know about them, then the gov't isn't really responsible, are they?

Is our government responsible for sheltering the 9/11 terrorists? Because that's the level of ties that Saddam had with the terrorists that were in his country. They just happened to be in the same place.

You go around and around in a circle without ever proving anything, Icann, because your argument is not sufficiently backed up by evidence. A real relationship between the two would lead to a large body of evidence(as it has in other countries with AQ), which has not been shown to be the case.

You should focus your energies on a more productive argument rather than repeating the same failed screed over and over on this thread...


Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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