THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

Yes Revel, but I am not talking about intended ends resulting from devious motives. I am talking about unexpected good results.

Only when you separate the motive from the unintended good results can you see the picture clearly. One has nothing to do with the other.

If the Bush administration had bad motives, then yes, we should look at that. So far, I haven 't seen anybody present much information that I find credible to support that.

But good results, whatever the initial motives might have been, are good results nevertheless.

Quote:

... Scientists at the Bavarian archive for geology in Munich are currently using a method called isotope analysis, which can search for trace elements such as sulphur, to roughly determine where in the world el-Masri has been in recent months. Munich's Ludwig-Maximilians University is world famous for the procedure -- in fact, isotope analysis has helped solve many difficult crimes in the past.

According to initial results, el-Masri's story is, in fact, true. Fearing far-reaching global diplomatic consequences, the German government, however, wants to see the case treated rather discretely. After all, el-Masri's allegations are not directed at some random rogue state but at the most powerful nation in the world...

I'm really just getting so worked up about this because it's completely obvious. el-Masri was perfectly innocent. He was abducted by the f*cking CIA. Your f*cking president had signed all this into law.

Benefit of doubt? Anytime. In this case? No.

El-Masri's ordeal began, he says, when he decided to escape, for one week over New Year, the stress of living in a single room in Ulm as the unemployed father of a family of six. On a friend's recommendation he bought a cheap bus ticket to Skopje, capital of Macedonia, intending to find a hotel when he got there.

El-Masri was kept prisoner in the room for 23 days; Macedonian civilian police were constantly present, and he was subject to repeated interrogations about his links to Islamic organisations - he says he has none - and about the mosque in Ulm where he worships.

El-Masri soon discovered that the prison, though technically Afghan, was run from behind the scenes by the US. His first encounter with an American was with a masked individual who spoke English with what el-Masri believes was an American accent. He had a Palestinian translator. The American took a blood sample and photographed el-Masri naked again.

By whispering through the door, and exchanging messages on pieces of toilet paper, el-Masri found out a few details about his fellow prisoners: two Saudi brothers of Pakistani origin who had been imprisoned for two years, two Tanzanians, a Pakistani, a Yemeni, and several Afghans. (Mr Gnjidic says two of the prisoners have been traced but he didn't want to identify them for fear of putting their lives at risk.)

Repeatedly, he would be asked the same questions, challenging his identity, accusing him of attending terrorist training camps. Some of the interrogators, el-Masri believes, were American.

After about a month, el-Masri met two unmasked Americans who other prisoners referred to as "the Doctor" and "the Boss". The Doctor was a tall, pale man in his 60s with grey collar-length hair. The Boss was younger, with red hair and blue eyes, about 5ft 10in, and wore glasses. ...

The Boss told him he had to get Washington's permission to help him, but was clearly angry, saying: "He shouldn't be here. He's in the wrong place." "I had the impression that the Doctor thought I wasn't guilty, and had sent a report saying so even after the second interrogation," says el-Masri. ...

It was to be more than a week before el-Masri finally got out of the prison; the German told him one of the obstacles to his speedy release was the Americans' determination not to leave any evidence that he had ever been there. He was flown to Albania in what he thinks was a small passenger jet, blindfolded and in plastic handcuffs.

Ok, so he's unemployed with kids and instead of trying to find he decides to go on vacation... Now, where is he decides to go on vacation? Skopje. A hotbed of Islamo-fascist activity. Did el-Masri have alternative reasons for visiting Skopje instead of say Munich, Berlin, Switzerland, Itay, Greece or any other, closer place? Back to the story...

Here's where your credibility drops to zero:

Quote:

Ok, so he's unemployed with kids and instead of trying to find he decides to go on vacation... Now, where is he decides to go on vacation? Skopje. A hotbed of Islamo-fascist activity. Did el-Masri have alternative reasons for visiting Skopje instead of say Munich, Berlin, Switzerland, Itay, Greece or any other, closer place? Back to the story...

Islamo-facist? What are you, a freeper?

Sheesh

Cycloptichorn

German Interior Minister Otto Schily has sought an apology from CIA chief Porter Goss over the kidnapping. German Interior Minister Otto Schily was the only German minister who was a loyal friend to the US even during the Iraq war.

So if he has sufficient reason to believe el-Masri, I will follow suit.

Actually, he kind of admitted it.

Laut Spiegel gibt es für el-Masris Entführung sogar ein Eingeständnis aus Washington. Bei diplomatischen Gesprächen hätten die „Amerikaner das Kidnapping unter der Hand eingeräumt und vage angedeutet, wie ihnen die Sache aus dem Ruder gelaufen" sei. Auf die offizielle Tagesordnung will die Bundesregierung den Fall aber nicht setzen. Man fürchtet um die wieder genesenden Beziehungen zu US-Präsident Bush & Co. Angeblich soll Innenminister Otto Schily, der in Washington ein gutes Ansehen genießt, vorsichtig den Fall zur Sprache bringen. Der Spiegel schreibt:„Berlin will eine Zusicherung, dass es sich um einen einmaligen Fehltritt handelt."

old europe wrote:

German Interior Minister Otto Schily has sought an apology from CIA chief Porter Goss over the kidnapping. German Interior Minister Otto Schily was the only German minister who was a loyal friend to the US even during the Iraq war.

So if he has sufficient reason to believe el-Masri, I will follow suit.

Well, as long as Porter Goss says we didn't do it, that's good enough for me.

According to 'Der Spiegel' Washington even confessed the abduction of el-Masri. During diplomatic talks the "the Americans quietly admitted to kidnapping el-Masri and vaguely implied how the whole matter had somehow gotten out of hand". However, the German Federal Government does not want to put this on the official agenda, being afraid to put at risk the improving relationship with US president Bush & Co. Allegedly Minister of the Interior Otto Schily, who enjoys a good reputation in Washington, will discretely mention the issue. 'Der Spiegel' writes: "Berlin wants assurance that this was a one-time lapse."

Did you know that there are 1,192,000 cell phone subscribers in Iraq and phone use has gone up 158%?

This is why I rarely bother trying to answer questions with any detail anymore. People like Cyc. pick out a single word and then use that to base a stupid come back with instead of trying to respond with any sort of actual discussion.

I'm all for good news. But...

McGentrix wrote:

Did you know that there are 1,192,000 cell phone subscribers in Iraq and phone use has gone up 158%?

... I'm looking forward to McGentrix explaining how the 158% increase of phone use in Iraq justifies abductions of innocent citizens around the world.

A bunch of stuff

One thing that fascinates me: instead of discussing the issue when evidence might turn up, why not post a list of totally unrelated stuff?

It's like "hey, we have proof you robbed this bank", answered by "now look at the beautiful weather today"...