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THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 12:05 pm
From a great post on www.thinkprogress.org :

Quote:
The Fix Isn't In
Speaking in Alabama yesterday, President Bush repeated a familiar claim: "We're fixing the deficit." It doesn't matter how many times he says it - it's still not true. In fact, the President's most recent proposed budget would make the federal deficit much worse. A March 4 analysis by the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) reveals the President's budget would increase the deficit by $1.6 Trillion over the next ten years. Most of the additional shortfall is a result of Bush's proposal to extend his 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for the rich. According to the CBO, new tax cuts proposed by Bush "would increase the deficit by more than $1.5 trillion in 2006 through 2015." Even these bleak numbers understate the scope of the fiscal crisis. The President's budget excludes all costs for continued operations in Iraq and Afghanistan - expected to cost at least $300 billion over the next 10 years - so do the CBO estimates. The fact is, President Bush's policies are leaving an enormous tab that future generations will have to pick up. And he's not being honest about it.


Jeez, the estimates that say that the deficit is going to rise by a trillion and a half don't even take the war into account.... this isn't a good report, no matter which side of the fence ya sit on.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 12:09 pm
It doesn't take the war into account, and also Bush's personal investment account in social security which is estimated at 1 to 2 trillion dollars. This guy knows how to spend money, and he calls himself a conservative. LOL
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 01:53 pm
Judge not lest ye be judged....


Judges killed in Iraq and in the US. What is it open season?
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 02:54 pm
In a lawless situation, when nations themselves do not obey the rule of law, who can be surprised when individuals try to take matters into their own hands?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 03:52 pm
A pro pos bribe and law:

Quote:

Friday, 11 March, 2005

Poles held in Iraq bribe inquiry

Polish authorities have arrested five officers suspected of taking bribes while serving in Iraq.

They were allegedly receiving money from companies hoping to be granted reconstruction contracts.

The Polish defence ministry said two of them had been caught red-handed as they returned from Iraq in early February with $90,000 (£46,706).

Armed forces prosecutors are currently leading the preliminary phase of an investigation into the scandal.

The officers, including a colonel and two majors, are thought to have accepted money from both US and Iraqi companies.

They were stopped at a Polish airport upon returning from Iraq and could not explain where the money had come from, the Polish authorities said.

Two civilian workers have also been arrested as part of the same investigation.

Meanwhile, Poland's President Aleksander Kwasniewski told a news conference on Friday that troops were likely to be withdrawn from Iraq by the end of the year.

"We are confident that 2005 will be a decisive year, and will allow either a withdrawal or a significant reduction of the Polish presence," he said.

"But in a question so important, you can't make decisions irresponsibly or tendentiously - certain countries have made such decisions overnight, and I don't think that helped stability in Iraq," he added.

Poland has 1,700 soldiers in Iraq, and leads a multinational security force south of Baghdad.

Source

And "yes", the Polish troops are leaving, too.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 04:05 pm
WHAT? Forget Poland? NEVER!

I was instructed not to!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 04:26 pm
From the link Walter posted:

Quote:
Meanwhile, Poland's President Aleksander Kwasniewski told a news conference on Friday that troops were likely to be withdrawn from Iraq by the end of the year.

"We are confident that 2005 will be a decisive year, and will allow either a withdrawal or a significant reduction of the Polish presence," he said.

"But in a question so important, you can't make decisions irresponsibly or tendentiously - certain countries have made such decisions overnight, and I don't think that helped stability in Iraq," he added.

Poland has 1,700 soldiers in Iraq, and leads a multinational security force south of Baghdad
.

I took this that President Kwasneiwski believes the situation will be stable enough by the end of the year that the Polish troops will no longer be needed. I also see him giving the cowards who turned tale and ran a less-than-subtle jab here.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 04:30 pm
Countries which had troops in or supported operations in Iraq at one point but have pulled out since ("cowards who turned tale and ran a less-than-subtle jab here"):

Nicaragua (Feb. 2004); Spain (late-Apr. 2004); Dominican Republic (early-May 2004); Honduras (late-May 2004); Philippines (~Jul. 19, 2004); Thailand (late-Aug. 2004); New Zealand (late Sep. 04); Hungary (end Dec. 04); Portugal (mid-Feb. 2005).

Countries planning to withdraw from Iraq: Poland (starting Jan.05 and completed by end.05(?)); the Netherlands (Mar. 05); Bulgaria (end of 2005, depending on circumstances); Ukraine (entire contingent, in stages until mid-October 2005).

Countries which have reduced or are planning to reduce their troop commitment: Ukraine (-200); Moldova (reduced contingent to 12); Norway (reduced from ~150 to 10 late-Jun.04, early Jul.04); Bulgaria (-50, Dec.04); Poland (-700, Feb.05).
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 04:35 pm
It's because all of them believed the situation was stable enough so that their troops would no longer be needed, Walter!
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 04:36 pm
Certainly.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 05:51 pm
Quote:
REUTERS: Italian minister rebukes hostage shot by US troops
11 Mar 2005 21:06:30 GMT
Phil Stewart


Italy's justice minister urged former hostage Giuliana Sgrena on Friday to stop making"careless" accusations after being shot by US forces in Baghdad, saying she had already caused enough grief.

Sgrena has repeatedly suggested US soldiers shot her on purpose and said on Friday she had little faith in a joint investigation by Italy and the United States into the "friendly fire" incident.

"She has created enormous problems for the government and also caused grief that perhaps was better avoided," JusticeMinister Roberto Castelli told reporters in Bologna.

Italian intelligence agent Nicola Calipari was shot dead by U.S. forces as he shielded the newly freed hostage while taking her to the airport.

Sgrena herself said in interviews this week that had she been more cautious in Baghdad, she perhaps would not have been kidnapped in the first place.

The award-winning war reporter, who works for Communist newspaper Il Manifesto, was abducted as she conducted interviews outside Baghdad University and held for a month.

Many Italians have been irked by her descriptions of her kidnappers. She said they were not killers and that she may have over-dramatised her videotaped appeal from captivity for Italy to withdraw its 3,000 troops from Iraq.

She sobbed in the video and begged her family and the government to do something to save her life.

"Sgrena, I think, should perhaps be more careful. She has said a load of nonsense, speaks somewhat carelessly and makes careless comments," Castelli said.

The US army says Sgrena's vehicle sped toward the checkpoint outside the airport and ignored warning shots, an explanation rejected by Rome and the car's driver.

Italy's centre-right government, while rejecting any hint that the shooting was intentional, has until now largely refrained from directly criticising Sgrena.

Sgrena has told ANSA news agency she does not expect official inquiries into the incident to produce results "because we know how they end up".

She also complained of being treated unfairly.

"I feel like I'm being accused for being kidnapped and then saved," Sgrena said, speaking from a Rome hospital, where she is undergoing treatment for her injuries.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 07:06 pm
Noting that Walter and OE are protesting (by implication) what I said and I was just agreeing with the Polish president's own statements that Walter posted. Smile
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 08:06 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Ican, you wrote in boldface type:-
The lies are emphasized here in boldface by me.
So presumably as its in boldface, that was a lie. That means the lies were not emphasised or you didn't emphasise them. Or it was one of those funny sentences with a built in logical paradox, e.g. "I always lie".
Do you always lie? And if so, how do we know?


Cicerone Imposter wrote:
"Did not believe?" NOw, how the fxxx you gonna prove that? All we know is that 1) we had UN weapon's inspectors looking for those weapons when Bush forced them our of Iraq, 2) Bush said "Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past." Colin Powell even showed those photographs to the UN Security Council, and claimed we knew the location of those weapons, 3) he continued to REPEAT THOSE LIES when the intelligence community insisted that the information was weak and unreliable, because they have not been independently reconfirmed by our intel, and 4) he lied to congress. Senator Diane Feinstein said they were lied to; that most of the Democrats who voted for war would not have done so if they did not hear those lies.


Do either of you have evidence that President Bush stated what he, President Bush, knew to be false?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 08:12 pm
He opened his mouth and words came out, proof enough!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 08:24 pm
Did you also know that Bush at the 2001 SOTU address told us he would reduce the national debt? He probably didn't know that was a lie either, so it's okay to mouth it to the country. He's now claiming the national debt will be reduced in half by 2009. Isn't that two years after his current term in office?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 08:28 pm
March 11, 2005
Italian Story Continues To Fall Apart

The AP reports that the Italian story of Giuliana Sgrena's release and later wounding at an American checkpoint, which also resulted in the death of intelligence agent Nicola Calipari, continues to fall apart. Two Italian newspapers now say that the general in charge of the Sgrena operation did not inform the US that Calipari's mission was to free Sgrena, and one of them reports that General Mario Maroli didn't even know it himself:

U.S. forces in Iraq were only partially informed about last week's Italian intelligence mission to release a hostage, which ended with a shooting on the road to Baghdad airport and the death of secret service agent Nicola Calipari, Italian newspapers said Friday. ...
Both newspapers cited a report by Gen. Mario Marioli, an Italian who is the coalition forces' second-in-command. The report has been given to Rome prosecutors investigating the killing.

According to the newspapers, Marioli informed U.S. officials that Calipari and the other Italian officer were there, but not that the mission was aimed at releasing Sgrena.

The papers had conflicting versions over how much Marioli knew: Corriere said he knew the Calipari was working to have the hostage released, La Repubblica said he didn't.


Either way, the Italians clearly did not want the US to know that they had ongoing negotiations aimed at releasing Sgrena. Why? Perhaps the reports of a multi-million dollar ransom answers that question rather effectively. The US clearly would have objected to the negotiations, especially since putting that much money in the hands of Islamofascist terrorists would likely get more of our soldiers killed, as well as the Iraqis. (Could the rash of bombings this week have any connection to a sudden influx of cash to the terrorist network? Maybe, maybe not.) If the US went public with its complaint, the deal would have fallen apart and the Italians humiliated, and it looks like they decided to keep us in the dark instead.

Sgrena also changed her story, subtly but significantly today:

In a statement released after the shooting, the U.S. Army's 3rd Infantry Division, which controls Baghdad, said the vehicle was speeding and refused to stop. The statement also said a U.S. patrol tried to warn a driver with hand and arm signals, by flashing white lights and firing shots in front of the car into the engine block.
In interviews published Friday, Sgrena said that no light was flashed at the vehicle and that the shots were not fired in front of the car.

"It's not true that they shot into the engine," she told Corriere della Sera, adding that the shooting came "from the right and from behind."


That qualification changes the entire tenor of the story. Either one would have to believe that the checkpoint soldiers stopped the car and then shot it out -- from behind! -- or that the car never stopped at the checkpoint and traveled so fast that the soldiers could only catch up to it as it passed through. Think about the options for a moment. If a checkpoint successfully stops a suspicious vehicle, why would soldiers walk around behind it to open fire? They'd risk hitting their unit at the front of the car. Tactically, little gain would come from getting behind a potential VBIED in open space when one could get at least some partial protection from a potential explosion by the checkpoint barricades.

This story gets fishier and fishier on every retelling. First we have a "rain of bullets" and Sgrena scooping them up by the handful off the seats, and then we see a car with two bullet holes in it, one of which went through the right front tire. Next the Italians tell us that the US had full operational knowledge of the mission when it turns out their own military leadership was possibly kept in the dark. Now Sgrena tells us that the Americans fired from behind the vehicle when they stopped at the checkpoint, the only position where US soldiers would risk hitting their own troops.

I call "shenanigans" on the Italians.

Posted by Captain Ed at March 11, 2005 07:57 AM
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 08:33 pm
dyslexia wrote:
He opened his mouth and words came out, proof enough!


Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Ican, you wrote in boldface type:-
The lies are emphasized here in boldface by me.
So presumably as its in boldface, that was a lie. That means the lies were not emphasised or you didn't emphasise them. Or it was one of those funny sentences with a built in logical paradox, e.g. "I always lie".
Do you always lie? And if so, how do we know?


Cicerone Imposter wrote:
"Did not believe?" NOw, how the fxxx you gonna prove that? All we know is that 1) we had UN weapon's inspectors looking for those weapons when Bush forced them our of Iraq, 2) Bush said "Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past." Colin Powell even showed those photographs to the UN Security Council, and claimed we knew the location of those weapons, 3) he continued to REPEAT THOSE LIES when the intelligence community insisted that the information was weak and unreliable, because they have not been independently reconfirmed by our intel, and 4) he lied to congress. Senator Diane Feinstein said they were lied to; that most of the Democrats who voted for war would not have done so if they did not hear those lies.


Do any of you have evidence that when President Bush stated Sadda's regime possessed ready-to-use WMD that he knew that Saddam's regime did not possess WMD?

Do any of you believe that al Qaeda did not reconstitute its base in northern Iraq in 2001?

Do any of you believe that Saddam's regime was incapable of removing the al Qaeda base from northern Iraq?

Do any of you believe that Saddam's regime did not create hundreds of weapon and munition caches throughout Iraq?

Do any of you believe that Saddam was not planning to resume development of WMD after UN sanctions were lifted?

Do any of you believe that Saddam's regime did not murder thousands of Iragis each year of its existence?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 08:37 pm
ok, one more time for the gipper, He (president Bush) opened his mouth and words came out, proof enough! I could ass that he (president Bush) is a republican, again proof he is a liar, but that seems redundant.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 08:39 pm
Yeah, Saddam killed thousands of his own every year, then the US by aggression killed over 15,000 more - innocent women and children.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 08:40 pm
Yeah, Saddam killed thousands of his own every year, then the US by aggression killed over 15,000 more - innocent women and children. We had god's blessing.
0 Replies
 
 

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