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THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 11:34 am
Well New Mexico isn't exactly 'up north', Tico Smile But yes, I heard about it. As I said before, both of my kids got their undergraduate work at Wichita State during the 80's (we were living in Salina at the time) and we have dear friends in Wichita as of now. I'm glad they caught him finally. And I'm really really glad he wasn't you Smile

Speaking of trials, I wonder when they're going to put Saddam on trial? Will that be televised?
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 11:42 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Well New Mexico isn't exactly 'up north', Tico Smile But yes, I heard about it. As I said before, both of my kids got their undergraduate work at Wichita State during the 80's (we were living in Salina at the time) and we have dear friends in Wichita as of now. I'm glad they caught him finally. And I'm really really glad he wasn't you Smile


<psst> Salina is "up north" when you're in Wichita. Laughing

And I'm glad it wasn't me too.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 11:44 am
Quote:
Speaking of trials, I wonder when they're going to put Saddam on trial? Will that be televised?


It won't be televised, and it won't be a public trial.

In fact, I doubt that it will be a 'trial' at all. Why? There's little doubt that Saddam knows many, many dirty secrets that people don't want revealed; you can't just put him on TV and let him blab about how we assisted him in the use of chemical weapons in the 80's.

Cycloptichorn
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 11:52 am
Geez, Cyclop, don't you ever get tired of making these bold pronouncements that keep turning out to be wrong?
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 11:56 am
Guess not. Do you ever get tired of using terrible logic in your arguments, having little factual basis to rest those arguments on, and speaking about college as if you knew anything about the current college atmosphere at all?

Like I said, I guess not.

Cycloptichorn
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 12:00 pm
Top lawyer or judge working on the Saddam prosecution, and an assistant, were shot dead this morning, leaving their home for work.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 12:03 pm
Where did you see that McTag? It hasn't hit the radar screen here this morning, but I have only been listening to local radio too.

And Cyclop, I might know a bit about the current college atmosphere--you know nothing about me or what I do or where I go everyday. At least however illogical my arguments may be, nobody is using my negative prophecies as a Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval for the probable success of initiatives on the international scene. Smile
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 12:08 pm
So, you do admit that your arguments are illogical?

Quote:
By Mariam Karouny
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Gunmen in Baghdad killed a judge working for the Iraqi special tribunal set up to try Saddam Hussein and his top lieutenants, a setback in efforts to close the chapter on decades of oppression.

Elsewhere in the Iraqi capital, two car bombs killed 13 Iraqi soldiers and wounded dozens in attacks claimed by Al Qaeda's wing in Iraq, led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

Judge Barawiz Mahmoud and his son, who worked as a lawyer, were killed as they left their home in north Baghdad Tuesday.

His death was the first assassination of a member of the special tribunal, which includes around 50 trial judges, investigating magistrates, prosecutors and appeals court judges.

Mahmoud's other son Maryon said the attack was politically motivated because his father was seeking to bring Saddam and former members of his Baath party to justice.

"I was sleeping and I heard shooting. I came out and saw blood running from my father's neck. My father was shot twice and my brother 11 times," he said near the scene of the shootings. A female relative wailed inside the home.

"We knew this was coming because of my father's work. He and my brother died holding their heads up high. This gives me comfort."

SECURITY FORCES UNDER ATTACK

One of Wednesday's car bombs was outside an Iraqi army base used as a recruitment center. Six soldiers were killed and 38 people were wounded, police said. A second car bomb targeted a convoy of Iraqi soldiers, killing seven and wounding two.

"On Wednesday morning, a lion from the martyrs' brigades of Al Qaeda Organization for Holy War in Iraq carried out a heroic attack on a center of the apostate guards," Zarqawi's group said in a statement which indicated it was a suicide bombing.

In a separate statement posted on Islamist Web sites, it claimed the attack on a convoy of "apostate guards


There's a page 2 as well.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=PWGQ3KMGBOYFOCRBAEZSFFA?type=topNews&storyID=7785591

At this rate, there won't be any judges left to try the guy.

Cycloptichorn
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 12:10 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Where did you see that McTag? It hasn't hit the radar screen here this morning, but I have only been listening to local radio too.


I think I saw this on the news last night.

I suggest they not show the next judge's face on TV.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 12:23 pm
Actually, Judge Barwez Mohammed Mahmoud al-Merwani and his son, lawyer Aryan Barwez al-Merwani, both of whom were working with the Iraqi Special Tribunal, were assassinated late Tuesday local time. Initially the murdered judge had been misidentified yesterday.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 12:28 pm
Quote:
Eail this article
Allawi & Al-Sistani coalitions: Kirkuk has never been and will never be Kurdish
28/02/2005 KurdishMedia.com - By Bryar Mariwani
London (KurdishMedia.com) 28 February 2005: In a telephone chat show conducted by the popular US backed radio in Iraq ?'Radio Sawa', representatives of the three main winners of the landmark Iraqi elections went into hot controversial discussions.

The guests were, Nawshirwan Mustafa, the prominent PUK politician and a representative of the Kurdistani Coalition List. Dr. Ali Reza, a member of the Islamic Al-Dawa party and representative of the Iraqi cleric Al-Sistani backed Iraqi Shiia Coalition List and Abu Fahd Al-Isawi a member of the Iraqi Prime Minister's Allawi's Al-Wifaq party.

Nawshirwan Mustafa said that his list has not entered any coalitions with any other Iraqi lists because their demands have not been met but he hinted that negotiations are still in progress in Baghdad.

Ayad Allawi's representative, Abdu Fahd Al-Isawi, in response to a question related to Kirkuk said, "Kirkuk has never and will never be a Kurdish city. I am very disappointed when I hear these comments [That Kirkuk is a Kurdish city] from politicians and from ordinary people. There is something historical that can't be played with. Kurdistan region is an Iraqi region and Kurds are real Iraqis and they believe in the unity of Iraq."

The Radio show host then asked the representative of Sistani backed ?'Iraq Coalition List' (Shiia List) to give his opinions on the issue of Kirkuk. Dr. Reza said "I am with Al-Sabawii on the issue of Kirkuk. Kirkuk has never and will never be a Kurdish city. Kirkuk is more Arabic than Kurdish."
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 12:33 pm
Cyclop writes
Quote:
So, you do admit that your arguments are illogical?
I'll admit that there is always the possibility that my argument can be shown to be illogical and I invite anyone to show how it is. That's how any of us learn. I'll admit that you say that my arguments are illogical. I won't admit that these two things are the same thing.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 12:47 pm
A surprisingly logical answer!

Kudos to you, Fox.

Cycloptichorn
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 12:57 pm
We can only hope the Iraqis will soon stop seeing these terrorist bombings and assassinations as 'normal' and will become more aggressive in dealing with the terrorists. I've been seeing lots of talking heads the last couple of days speculating that bin Laden is conceding defeat in Iraq and is turning his efforts elsewhere. If true, how that will play out on the international scene remains to be seen, but it may mean things will soon calm down in Iraq.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 01:03 pm
Sure seem to be a lot of explosions there for someone who is 'admitting defeat.'

The 'talking heads,' either on the left or the right, don't know sh*t. I think cable news was the worst thing to ever happen to news.

Cycloptichorn
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 01:27 pm
usama bin laden just asked al qaeda to target America if that's what you mean.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 01:33 pm
Fox, That you can assume that things may calm down in Iraq soon is something I would never even suggest as this juncture. You using a Weejee board? Wink
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 01:33 pm
Double post sorry
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 01:33 pm
Here's a short essay that adds nothing materially to the debate other than it is the opinion of an acknowledged Middle East expert on this stuff:

TERRORIST VS. TERRORIST

By RALPH PETERS

March 2, 2005 -- OSAMA bin Laden gets it. The terror-master understands that the campaign of bombings and assassinations has backfired in Iraq, erasing popular support for Islamist fanatics and unleashing the forces of freedom.

So World Terrorist No. 1 sent a message to Regional Terrorist No. 1: We're losing. We need a different strategy.

Osama wants Abu Musab al-Zarqawi to shift his sights from Iraq's population, to help carry the struggle back to American soil. With the old order beginning to crack in the wake of Iraq's elections, bin Laden sees that his last, desperate hope is to hurt America so badly that we quit the fight.

Osama is a strategist. He may not be a very good strategist ?- he called the after-effects of 9/11 utterly wrong. But he thinks in global terms, in time-frames that look decades into the future and centuries into the past. He's a big-picture guy.

Zarqawi is a hit man. He thinks tactically. Faced with the humiliation of 8 million Iraqis defying his threats and lining up to vote, his instinctive response is to lash out, to punish, to kill without stopping. Monday's bombing in Hilla took 115 Iraqi lives. It was a classic Zarqawi operation.

Osama and Zarqawi are both frustrated by the series of reverses they've suffered. But their perspectives on the Islamist war against modern civilization differ profoundly.

Even in hiding, Osama has managed to build an accurate picture of events in the greater Middle East, where his cause is on the ropes. He's realized that Zarqawi's program of videotaped beheadings, suicide bombings against civilian targets and the assassination of teachers, doctors and local officials hasn't won hearts and minds.



Zarqawi has become a menace to Osama's vision. The new guy on the block is out of control. He's hitting the wrong targets.

Osama is a long way from disavowing Zarqawi ?- he'd rather use him. But an eventual split could come, if the Jordanian doesn't read between the lines of the big guy's message. Osama wants a change in tactics. Now. Three years ago, people in the Middle East were cheering and naming their babies after him. Now he's losing his star quality.

The people of the Middle East are voting in Iraq and the Palestinian territories, toppling a puppet government in Lebanon, agitating for elections in Egypt ?- and even casting ballots for municipal representatives in Saudi Arabia. Syria looks shaky and Iran's youthful population wants the mullahs gone. Sunni and Shi'a Muslims may even learn to cooperate.

Whether Osama's sitting in Karachi, in the mountains bordering Afghanistan or even in Iran, he sees that the West is winning. The infidels are turning the heads of the faithful.

It must eat at him like cancer.

Bin Laden knows that his movement can't afford a further hemorrhage of popular support. In his gory way, Zarqawi is becoming a more immediate threat to al Qaeda than America. By killing so many Muslims, Zarqawi has destroyed the folk-hero image of Islamist terrorists, reducing them to nothing but renegade murderers.

Zarqawi may blow Osama off. His resources and interests are regional, not global. He doesn't have the temperament to call off his private war and try again elsewhere. Zarqawi's a gritty, furious field officer who wants to get at the enemy right now. Osama's the general with the broader grasp of events.

Osama's real message to Zarqawi isn't Hit America instead. It's Stop what you're doing, brother.

Our homeland will be hit again. By someone. Sooner or later, the bad guy lands a punch. Meanwhile, we should take heart from the latest evidence ?- delivered by Osama himself ?- that the cause of freedom is even more powerful than we thought, that democracy is contagious.

Osama's message to Zarqawi was one of despair ?- and a tribute to the millions of Arabs who are turning against his kind.

Ralph Peters is the author of "Beyond Baghdad: Postmodern War and Peace."
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/41587.htm
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 01:42 pm
The Osama/Zarqawi war against freedom and democracy has just begun - as wars go. It seems positive things are happening in the ME, but it's still too early to make conclusions. We still have chaos and killings in Iraq and elsewhere. I'd like to be able to forecast what it'll be like in five or six years from now. That's a more realistic time frame for trends.
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