Quote:If we go with the impeders there is no chance of the Iraqi people establishing a democratic government that is the Iraqis' own design, that does not murder civilians in Iraq, and that does prevent murderers of civilians in other countries from being based in Iraq.
The impeders want us to emulate in Iraq the same fleeing cowardice the US shamefully exhibited when the US abandoned 100s of thousands of South Vietnamese civilians to their North Vietnamese murderers, or to fleeing their country to avoid being murdered by the North Vietnamese.
The solvers want us to remain in Iraq until the Iraqis themselves ask us to leave
This goes back a few pages. By setting up a straw man ('impeders,") this post gives the appearance of proper rhetoric when it is not. I've heard no one here, and few in the media, who are "against" a democratic government in Iraq or "against" trying to remove terrorists from the country. That would be akin to being "against" apple pie or motherhood.
Few reasonable people would urge the removal of our troops now that the country lies in the ruin and chaos we caused.
Your post is meaningless. We will leave Iraq when the US administration decides we will leave, not when the Iraqis demand it. We will leave when one of two things happens: the country, against all odds and with the hopes of everyone, becomes stable under an Iraqi military supported by dozens of US bases that are being established in Iraq. Or we leave knowing finally that we have failed in our effort at imperial democracy and that the US public will no longer support the loss of this country's blood and treasure.
We see Egypt being swayed by pressure from Bush to make some reforms. What a difference Bush could have made four years ago -- or Clinton or Bush Sr. -- if we had placed strong pressure on Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and elsewhere (many elsewheres...) and continued with such efforts as only we can do, being mighty. What a different world we might see if we had brought all of our will to the peace effort in Israel/Palestine -- again, as only we can do -- rather than taking up arms and losing three years as we "looked the other way" from the world's serious trouble spots.