0
   

THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 05:34 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
... How many more countries are we going to force democracy down the throats of middle eastern countries, and at what cost to Americans?
..."force democracy down the throats of middle eastern countries" Question Shocked Rolling Eyes THAT'S ABSURD! The only people who are being forced to swallow democracy are the tyrannical leaders of the countries of the middle east. The people welcome it and swallow every morsel eagerly to such a degree that they are willing to risk death for the privilege.

cicerone imposter wrote:
How much sacrifice must we continue to make for other countries?
WHATEVER IT TAKES!
President George W. Bush wrote:
We are led, by events and common sense, to one conclusion: The survival of liberty in our land increasingly depends on the success of liberty in other lands. The best hope for peace in our world is the expansion of freedom in all the world.


President George W. Bush wrote:
Some who call themselves realists question whether the spread of democracy in the Middle East should be any concern of ours. But the realists in this case have lost contact with a fundamental reality: America has always been less secure when freedom is in retreat; America is always more secure when freedom is on the march.


cicerone imposter wrote:
It's too bad Bush and his minions have not sacrificed anything except talk.
STRONG LEADERSHIP AND INSPIRING TALK ARE REQUIRED.
President George W. Bush wrote:
When the Declaration of Independence was first read in public and the Liberty Bell was sounded in celebration, a witness said, "It rang as if it meant something." In our time it means something still. America, in this young century, proclaims liberty throughout all the world, and to all the inhabitants thereof. Renewed in our strength - tested, but not weary - we are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 05:45 pm
Not to put too fine a point on it, but george didn't write the above...other people did.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 05:55 pm
Kara wrote:
Quote:
Yes, leave if the Iraq Assembly asks us to leave; stay if the Iraqi Assembly asks us to stay.
ican, that statement is disingenuous because we know that the Iraq Assembly will act in accord with our administration's blueprint for the Middle East. We have seen to that by occupying and destroying the country, leaving the citizens helpless without US forces as security even to live everyday life. To ask the US forces to leave before hundreds of thousands of Iraqis can be trained as police and army would be suicide. That is why your statement was idiotic...er disingenuous.
Idiotic, possibly! Disingenuous not at all! I meant what I stated and I stated what I meant. You claim: "we know that the Iraq Assembly will act in accord with our administration's blueprint for the Middle East." Who is this we who knows this? I certainly do not know this! But if true, I think our administration probably seeks to leave Iraq as soon as Iraqi liberty is secured by the Iraqis themselves.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 06:41 pm
blatham wrote:
Not to put too fine a point on it, but george didn't write the above...other people did.
Maybe he wrote it; maybe he didn't. Maybe he edited it; maybe he didn't. Maybe he read it before delivering it; maybe he didn't. Two things are for sure: George's speech was created on George's watch according to George's specifications at George's request, and read by George at George's insistance.

So George wrote it too.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 06:48 pm
All presidents now have speech-writing teams, and polling teams, and PR teams who all contribute to any major speech. Bush isn't unusual here.

But the differentiation is important. Comparisons get made between, say, Bush and Lincoln - who did write his own words. That comparison might be nice for those who like the idea of President-Worship, but it's a projection of a falsehood.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 06:55 pm
blatham wrote:
All presidents now have speech-writing teams, and polling teams, and PR teams who all contribute to any major speech. Bush isn't unusual here.

But the differentiation is important. Comparisons get made between, say, Bush and Lincoln - who did write his own words. That comparison might be nice for those who like the idea of President-Worship, but it's a projection of a falsehood.
If we continually blame Bush for the blunders committed on his watch, surely it is not unreasonable to occassionally credit him for a good speech or two written on his watch. That's simply fair play, and definitely not "President-Worship"--unless, of course you are merely a President-Whacker!
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 06:58 pm
CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS ARTICLE WAS WRITTEN BEFORE THE ELECTION?
Quote:
London Times On Line
January 26, 2005

Democracy in Iraq
The real story of this election is that of human courage

While the world has focused relentlessly on the violence, suicide bombings
and intimidation that have marked the bloody run-up to the elections in Iraq
on Sunday, it has overlooked the extraordinary courage and determination of
the majority of Iraqis who will turn out in their millions to elect the
first Shia Government that Iraq has known since the break-up of the Ottoman
empire. As much as the coalition forces, the Shia majority has been the
target of the vicious terrorist murders daily perpetrated by al-Qaeda
supporters and the Sunni extremists led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

Dozens of prominent Iraqis have been assassinated, the latest being a senior
judge, and hundreds of Shia civilians and worshippers have been killed in
bomb attacks on mosques and markets intended to stir sectarian violence.
Al-Zarqawi has issued tapes insulting the Shias and calling on Sunnis to
fight the "infidel voters". Yet the Shia leadership has resisted all calls
for vengeance. Instead, the United Iraqi Alliance, the coalition formed
under the guidance of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, has made clear that it
sees a role for Sunnis in any government that the Shias look set to
dominate.

Shia tactics are clear. By resisting provocation and restraining the
population in southern Iraq from attacks on coalition forces, the
downtrodden majority has virtually ensured that it will triumph on Sunday.
It therefore has no wish to exacerbate the already tense relations with
Sunnis fearful of Shia vengeance for past oppression or with coalition
forces who will still be needed to fight terrorists and those intent on
civil war. In the north, the Kurds are also expected to turn out to vote, as
they want a share of the power denied them so long.

The problem will be in Baghdad and central Iraq, where the Sunnis form a
majority and where violence has been greatest. They form only 20 per cent of
the population, but have long monopolised top positions in the army, the
economy and national life. Intimidation has been relentless, with terrorist
groups threatening to kill anyone venturing out to vote and assassinating
dozens of Iraqis standing for election, canvassing or in other ways involved
in the ballot. But all the signs are that many Sunnis will, like many in
Afghanistan last year, brave the intimidation to cast votes. And even some
of the main Sunni parties that have withdrawn say they would consider posts
in any future government.

Sunni courage in the face of desperate attempt to sabotage the vote must be
applauded. It does not help, therefore, if Western observers insist it will
be meaningless or see success as an unwelcome threat to their prejudices.
Iyad Allawi, Iraq's very robust interim Prime Minister, insists that setting
a withdrawal date for coalition forces is futile and dangerous. But his
brave stance is not helped by the charges of torture of opponents and
criminals by the struggling Iraqi police and troops. He must stop this abuse
immediately, and rally the country to halt the greater abuse of democracy by
those hoping to sabotage Sunday's historic vote.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 07:04 pm
Gels, Good post; sorta follows my message that one election does not make a democracy.
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 07:05 pm
Posting in support of Ican and of the 4-footed Iraq residents really, really, glad to have us there:
http://sc.groups.msn.com/tn/B4/20/wildllife/1/2b.jpg
http://sc.groups.msn.com/tn/B4/20/wildllife/1/2b.jpg

(Pic credit to Onmymarc / Stradee, also posted on the Rainforest thread of A2K.)
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 07:07 pm
Which reminds me - Blatham, did you rcv / fwd Seydlitz' threads? Thanks - much indebted to you!
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 07:10 pm
Quote:
A New Iraq

By FOUAD AJAMI
January 26, 2005; Page A16
Wall Street Journal
On the morning after Iraq's elections, we now know, the insurgents will still be with us. And there will remain that denial among broad segments of the Arab intellectual and political elites, their stubborn belief that these elections are but an American veneer over Iraq's mayhem. We shall not be able to convince people with no democratic experience that Iraq is on the cusp of a new history. We shall have to look past those who call up the specter of the Shiite bogeyman and dismiss these elections as the first step toward a Shia theocracy. But set this election for a National Assembly against the background of Iraq's historical torment -- and against the background of an Arab world thrashing about for a new political way -- and one is forgiven the sense that Jan. 30 is a signal day in Iraqi history.

Constitutional monarchy isn't about to be restored to Iraq, but there are constitutional monarchists contesting this election. A Hashemite prince, who miraculously survived the regicide of 1958 as an infant 2 years of age, is on the ballot. Nor will the Communists prevail at the polls, but they are in the thick of things, a reminder that the Communist Party of Iraq was once the most active of the communist parties of the Arab East. There is a Kurdish electoral list, and a list or two of Arab nationalists. A list harks back to a leader who was overthrown and murdered in 1963, Gen. Abdul Kareem Qassem: he has haunted the country ever since, and there have stepped forth inheritors of his political legacy. One list is headed by Ghazi al-Yawar, the president of this interim government, a Sunni Arab from Mosul, a man of indisputable moral courage and a humane temperament that calls back all that was once good and measured in Arab life. Yet another is that of interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi, a Shiite secularist who had had his start in the ranks of the Baath Party.

There is of course a Shiite slate, the United Iraqi List: it has the subtle endorsement of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. The moving force behind that list is Ahmad Chalabi, leader of the Iraqi National Congress. The American regency broke with Mr. Chalabi, but he has found a big new role for himself. This is a broad political coalition, which includes powerful Shiite movements like the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq and the Dawa Party. It is a sure thing that this list will fare well in Sunday's election. Millions of Shiites, it is safe to assume, will cast their votes. The ballot box is their means out of the subjugation of recent decades. One needn't wax poetic about the old, pre-Saddam Iraq. It had its cruelties, and failures. But there had at least been balance, and time-honored arrangements of power and property. The Shiites had once dominated the commerce of Baghdad and Basra, and their religious scholars in Najaf and Karbala had autonomy and security of life and possession. Even the Baath had once been an alliance of Sunnis and Shiites and Kurds and Christians. The Tikriti tyranny shredded the old order, and its saving graces. It wrote the Shiites out of the life of the land. These elections are a way for this disinherited majority to reclaim its place.

Behold these elections: they are not a prelude to civil war, as some of our sages continually warn. They are the substitute for a civil war. Indeed, the remarkable thing about the Shiites has been their restraint in the face of the terror that the remnants of the old regime and the jihadists have thrown at them. It is their leaders and their mosques and their weddings and their religious gatherings that have been the steady targets of the terror. It is their faith that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and his band of killers continue to dismiss as a heresy at odds with Islam's "purity." Men are not angels. The Shiite restraint has rested on the hope that redemption shall come at the ballot box.

We needn't be afraid of a Shiite electoral victory. The scarecrow that stayed America's hand in the first Gulf War ought to be seen for what it is. There is no "sister republic" of the Iranian theocracy in Iraq's future. The religious scholars in Najaf know that theirs is a country that differs from Iran; it is a checkered country of multiple communities. The Shiite secularists know this as well. Besides, the Iranian state next door offers no panacea today, only terrible economic and cultural sterility. It has been Iraq's luck that Ayatollah Sistani was there when most needed. A jurist of deeply quietist bent who embodies Shiism's historical aversion to political redemptionism, he has reined in the passions of his community. He has held out the hope that history could be changed without large-scale violence, and without millenarianism. Grant the old man his due.

Admonitions have come America's way -- made by the Sunni order of power in neighboring Arab lands -- of the dangers of Shiite emancipation. It was in that vein that Jordan's monarch, Abdullah II, warned of a "Shia crescent" that would extend from Iran to Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. Our leaders tell us that similar fears are put to them by other Arab rulers. The power of the Arabist world view lingers in the State Department and in the ranks of the CIA, which retain a basic sympathy for the Sunni order. It is odd, to say the least, that we would fall for this trap. The terrors of Sept. 11, 2001, were not Shiite. Saudis and Egyptians brought soot and ruin to America; and it is a Jordanian from the town of Zarqa -- with Zarqawi as his nom de guerre -- who is sowing death in the streets of Iraq.

Young American soldiers are not dying in Iraq to uphold the sectarian phobias and privileges of the Arab elites. For if this campaign in Mesopotamia has a broader moral claim, it is to rid the Arabs of the atavisms that have poisoned their life. We can't underwrite Sunni dominion anymore than we can support Shiite radicalism. A Shiite bid to dominate Iraq is sure to be broken, turned back by the Sunni Arabs and the Kurds. Nor can we accept at face value the assumption that the Shiites of Iraq are a monolithic force. There are deep wells of anticlericalism among them. If the past is any guide, competing Shiite factions will cast about for alliances across the sectarian lines, among the Sunni Arabs and the Kurds.
* * *
It is no small irony that the American project for opening up the politics of the Arab world is being launched from Iraq. At first glance this would seem to be the most forbidding of landscapes. Arabs of my generation who came into political awareness in the '50s were raised to an idea of Iraq as a turbulent and merciless place. But this is the hand that history has dealt us. Americans may be strangers in the Arab world, but a bitter frustration with the ways of the Arabs, born of 9/11, has pushed America deeper into Arab life. That frustration has given urgency to a new determination to reform the Arab condition, to strike at that cluster of unreason and anti-Americanism that has poisoned Arab culture. We haven't been particularly skilled at that, and perhaps no foreign sword could cut the Gordian knot of an old, stubborn culture. But there is nobility in what is being attempted. Under Anglo-American protection, the Kurds, for decades the victims of official persecution, were able to build a decent, moderate political world in their ancestral north. Now the work of repair extends beyond the Kurds, and Iraq today represents the odd spectacle, a veritable reversal of intellectual galaxies, of a conservative American president proclaiming the gospel of liberty while liberals fall back on a surly belief that liberty can't travel, can't spread to Muslim lands.

Leave aside American liberalism's hostility to this venture and consider the multitudes of America's critics in Arab and European intellectual circles. It is they today who propagate a view of peoples and nations fit -- and unfit -- for democracy. It is they who speak of Iraq's "innate" violence. For their part, the men and women in Iraq -- who make their way to the ballot box, past the perpetrators of terror -- will be witnesses to the appeal of liberty. In their condescension, people given to dismissing these elections say that Iraq is the wrong place for a "Jeffersonian democracy." (Forgive the emptiness of that remark, for America itself is more of a Hamiltonian creation, but that is another matter.) No Jeffersonianism is needed here. A kind of wisdom has been given ordinary Iraqis -- an eagerness to be rid of the culture of statues and informers and terror. It takes no literacy in the writings of Mill and Locke to know the self-respect that comes with choosing one's rulers. Though it would not be precisely accurate to speak of the "restoration" of democracy in Iraq, older Iraqis have a memory of a more merciful history. Now Iraq has to be rehabilitated. These elections -- flawed, taking place alongside a raging insurgency -- are part of the rehabilitation of this deeply wounded country.

There is no need to dwell on the "demonstration effect" of this election, or on its meaning for other Arabs: it takes place under their gaze. Let Iraq's Arab neighbors draw their own conclusions about the legitimacy of political liberty. Let them see Iraqi women both vote and contend for seats in the assembly. Iraq is already the battleground between Arab authoritarianism and participatory politics. Its fate, we must know, will either embolden the forces of openness or sustain the autocrats in their argument that there is no alternative to their way.

"They can't vote. If anybody goes to vote, they will be killed," a spokesman for the large Dulaim tribe, in Sunni-dominated Anbar province recently said. Fair enough: an endeavor is often clarified by its enemies. That is the other vision of Iraq, and Iraqis know all too well its terrible harvest. History has cunning; some eight decades ago, the Shiites turned their backs on the new Iraqi state, and chose insurgency and a terrible anti-British campaign. The die was cast, and the Shiites lost: they were left with the legend of their revolt -- the 1920 rebellion, and its hollow consolations. The Sunni Arab political elites came into possession of Iraq. The Sunnis know this history. After their fury is spent, after the jihadists who crossed into their country are hunted down, there is sure to come to the Sunnis some reason and some compromise, a recognition that the old dominion is gone, and that the battered country will have to be shared.

Mr. Ajami is a professor at Johns Hopkins.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 07:31 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Gels, Good post; sorta follows my message that one election does not make a democracy.

Was there an election somewhere?

Quote:

Sunday, January 30, 2005
Vote For Food


The cowardly and corrupt bush administration, working along with the dirty allow(ie) government is coercing Iraqis to vote. The allow(ie) puppets are threatening Iraqis who don't vote that they will not get their monthly food rations.

The bush gang can do anything to reach to their goals.
I mean ANYTHING.

It is well known all over Iraq now that if you didn't go to vote, the government will cut your monthly food rations. EVERYONE is talking about this, and EVERYONE believes it too!!! and this is one of the main reasons of why millions of poor and destroyed Iraqis were dragged out of their homes today and sent to election centers in the middle of explosions and bullets. They don't give a damn about elections, they want food. Millions of Iraqis don't have the possibility of testing whether this rumor is true or false, this is about surviving. They are ready to put their lives in danger to go get their monthly food rations.

Even the orders of sistani are not enough to get them out of their homes to go vote. They don't give a damn for bushy freedom.

"I will go and drop a blank ballot, I just want my family's food rations", a friend of my brother Khalid told him a couple of days ago in Baghdad. I called khalid in Baghdad twice today to see what was happening, and he said the same thing i heard on the BBC, that an explosion was happening every two minutes!!

The bush gang, trying to complete their pathetic play in Iraq are dying to add more lies to their long history of deceit.

The "Iraqi government" is announcing confusing and wrong numbers to the public. Instead of announcing the ratio of Voters to the Eligible Voters, the numbers announced are the ratio of the Voters to the Registered Voters!!!!

For example, the number of Iraqis that registered their names in Jordan are less than 20% of the eligible voters living in Jordan, so when 90% of the registered voters go to vote, it means that less than 18% of the total number voted... 90% is not the real number that should be announced to people!!!!!

liars liars liars!!!!!!!

The numbers announced inside Iraq are all fake. The registered voters in Tikrit governorate for example are a couple of thousands out of hundreds of thousands of residents, if one thousand people went to vote today, it doesn't mean at all that the turnout is more than 50%

liars liars liars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The fake government in Iraq announced that 72% of Iraqis voted today. Later they announced that 8 million Iraqis voted, which means that around 56% voted because the number of Eligible voters inside Iraq is more than 14.27 million.

There is NO WAY that the primitive weak Iraqi government could know how many people went to vote today this fast, and these numbers are mere exaggerated guesses.

Yet, they are stupid enough to miscalculate numbers.

The number of Iraqis outside is more than 4,000,000. 56% of Iraqis are older than 18 years, which means that around 2.5 million Iraqis are Eligible voters outside Iraq. Less than 250,000 of them voted.

The surprise is that by a simple calculation, the total number of Iraqi Eligible voters inside and outside the country is more than 16.75 millions, and the number of people that actually voted is less than 8.25 million !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LESS THAN 50% VOTED
These are Illegal elections then!
Voter Turnout Is NOT Enough to Legitimise Elections!!!

Even with all the lies, even with threatening people's means of survival, it doesn't seem that it worked
:*)

When ugly-condi announces to all media stations that "Iraqi Voting Exceeds Expectations", when little bush hails the Iraqi vote as a "Resounding Success", the world should see how these two mathematically challenged liars do not know what they are talking about.

Today's elections were another shameful page in the long bush war on Iraq, these elections were another mistake that bush and the occupying armies will pay for in the near future.

Posted by: Raed Jarrar / 11:59 PM (28) comments
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 07:56 pm
Gelisgesti Posted:
Quote:

Quote:
Sunday, January 30, 2005
Vote For FoodThe cowardly and corrupt bush administration, working along with the dirty allow(ie) government is coercing Iraqis to vote. The allow(ie) puppets are threatening Iraqis who don't vote that they will not get their monthly food rations. The bush gang can do anything to reach to their goals. I mean ANYTHING.

It is well known all over Iraq now that if you didn't go to vote, the government will cut your monthly food rations. EVERYONE is talking about this, and EVERYONE believes it too!!! and this is one of the main reasons of why millions of poor and destroyed Iraqis were dragged out of their homes today and sent to election centers in the middle of explosions and bullets. They don't give a damn about elections, they want food. Millions of Iraqis don't have the possibility of testing whether this rumor is true or false, this is about surviving. They are ready to put their lives in danger to go get their monthly food rations.

Even the orders of sistani are not enough to get them out of their homes to go vote. They don't give a damn for bushy freedom. "I will go and drop a blank ballot, I just want my family's food rations", a friend of my brother Khalid told him a couple of days ago in Baghdad. I called khalid in Baghdad twice today to see what was happening, and he said the same thing i heard on the BBC, that an explosion was happening every two minutes!!

The bush gang, trying to complete their pathetic play in Iraq are dying to add more lies to their long history of deceit. The "Iraqi government" is announcing confusing and wrong numbers to the public. Instead of announcing the ratio of Voters to the Eligible Voters, the numbers announced are the ratio of the Voters to the Registered Voters!!!!

For example, the number of Iraqis that registered their names in Jordan are less than 20% of the eligible voters living in Jordan, so when 90% of the registered voters go to vote, it means that less than 18% of the total number voted... 90% is not the real number that should be announced to people!!!!! liars liars liars!!!!!!!

The numbers announced inside Iraq are all fake. The registered voters in Tikrit governorate for example are a couple of thousands out of hundreds of thousands of residents, if one thousand people went to vote today, it doesn't mean at all that the turnout is more than 50% liars liars liars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The fake government in Iraq announced that 72% of Iraqis voted today. Later they announced that 8 million Iraqis voted, which means that around 56% voted because the number of Eligible voters inside Iraq is more than 14.27 million. There is NO WAY that the primitive weak Iraqi government could know how many people went to vote today this fast, and these numbers are mere exaggerated guesses. Yet, they are stupid enough to miscalculate numbers.

The number of Iraqis outside is more than 4,000,000. 56% of Iraqis are older than 18 years, which means that around 2.5 million Iraqis are Eligible voters outside Iraq. Less than 250,000 of them voted. The surprise is that by a simple calculation, the total number of Iraqi Eligible voters inside and outside the country is more than 16.75 millions, and the number of people that actually voted is less than 8.25 million !!!!!!!!!!!!!! LESS THAN 50% VOTED These are Illegal elections then!
Voter Turnout Is NOT Enough to Legitimise Elections!!!

Even with all the lies, even with threatening people's means of survival, it doesn't seem that it worked :*) When ugly-condi announces to all media stations that "Iraqi Voting Exceeds Expectations", when little bush hails the Iraqi vote as a "Resounding Success", the world should see how these two mathematically challenged liars do not know what they are talking about.

Today's elections were another shameful page in the long bush war on Iraq, these elections were another mistake that bush and the occupying armies will pay for in the near future.

Posted by: Raed Jarrar / 11:59 PM (28) comments
HYSTERICAL!
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 08:09 pm
More rebound ..... perhaps therapy?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 08:13 pm
Gelisgesti wrote:
More rebound ..... perhaps therapy?
More hysteria.......perhaps straight jacket?
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 08:45 pm
But you have been so much better the past couple of days ....... how about chinese fingercuffs ..... maybe toe cuffs too .....
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 11:35 pm
Gels, Saddam had elections too! He usually won by a landslide. Sorta like the same message; vote for me or die.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 11:38 pm
Gotta admit though, that the Iraqis celebrating their 'election' was one of the bright spots in a rather dismal satire.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 12:21 am
Maybe I've lost my cynicism gene but I don't begrudge (some) Iraqis the joy of being able to vote- whatever the flaws. The joy, in some seen yesterday, was palpable.

So, the Kurds might want their own state and Turkey might intervene. So, the Sunni problem is perhaps worse now, not better. But that is for the future. Let us today consider this as a first faltering step out of a big deep hole.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 05:54 am
I truely think, yesterday has been a hidstorical watershed in the recent Iraquian history.

We can only hope that the USA and the Iraquians succeed in integrating the 20% of the population as well, who is until now more or less openly opposing the new democracy.

Will this be a "shout for democracy" for neighboring countries?
I have my doubts: why should the ruling parties call for such situations?
Why should the citizens decide to live according to the example, now given in Iraq?

Things certainly will change - to a better, I'm sure, to more democracy in the ME.
But not ad hoc.
And not by forcefully invading independent countries.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.13 seconds on 08/01/2025 at 04:33:12