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THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2004 12:17 pm
On the other side here is a rather good essay re George W. Bush showing the good, the bad, the questions, and the unknown quantities. I think the author has done a pretty good job of showing how our President is in no way deranged or mentally unstable, but is most likely quite equal to the task. (Not that I think many Bush haters will bother to read it - it is pretty lengthy):

Close Up: The Mind of George W. Bush
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2004 01:19 pm
Bush is sane enough to be tried as a criminal.

You don't beat the rap that easily, George.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2004 02:23 pm
McTag, That's a good un; sane enough to stand trial for crimes against humanity. Sounds perfect!
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2004 02:35 pm
If the article from Capital Hill Blue is only partially accurate this nation and perhaps the entire world is in deep $hit.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2004 02:50 pm
au, The world is in deep $hit - or haven't you noticed during the past four years?
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2004 03:01 pm
C.I.
Yes but I always believed he would stop short of blowing the world up. Now after reading that article I am not so sure.

He is in the wrong house. Instead of the White House he belongs in the Crazy house.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2004 03:02 pm
Many of us have known that for almost four years now. Wink
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2004 06:19 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
au, The world is in deep $hit - or haven't you noticed during the past four years?


The world has been in a rapidly accelerating increase in the depth of feces over almost the last 12 years.

Despite the clear lessons of the history of WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and Quwaite, too many people think that evil is mostly containable, via good will and good intentions, in someone else's yard. Few possess the imagination to imagine themselves in the yards of the actual victims, and perceive the pain of their persecuted neighbors and the real ultimate threat to their own yards and themselves if they fail to act to successfully help defend their persecuted neighbors.

Besides, it's seemingly so much easier and safer to resent and villify those who possess such imagination.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 09:09 am
The writer in Atlantic Monthly re Bush presented one of the more objective pieces I've seen, but he sees the imagination thing as the question mark remaining with Bush. I think nobody who looks at Bush through objective eyes rather than highly partisan eyes will think he hasn't had reasonably good vision or that his heart isn't in the right place. The media has so distorted the big picture re 9/11 and the War against Terrorism including the war in Iraq that it may be some time before we sort out the truth from all the misinformation and can make accurate judgments about whether his imagination has been on target.
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the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 09:13 am
I simply don't believe his heart is in the right place, and frankly, I've seen little evidence of that being the case.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 09:24 am
This is I suppose a joke that I just recieved in my E-Mail. At least I think it is a joke

Quote:
The Texas Triangle, July 23, 2004 includes an article from Newsweek recently regarding a quote from Dubya: "We must always remember that all human beings begin life as a feces. A feces is a living being in the eyes of God, who has endowed that feces with all the rights and God-given blessings of any other human being." According to Newsweek, the Tampa audience "listened in disbelief," as the President repeated his unfortunate malapropism at least a dozen times before reverting to the use of the word "fetus".
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 10:12 am
au, That's funny!
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 03:33 pm
the reincarnation of suzy wrote:
I simply don't believe his heart is in the right place, and frankly, I've seen little evidence of that being the case.


You appear to lack sufficient perspicacity to see such evidence.
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 03:38 pm
AXIS OF EVIL, PART TWO
by Charles Krauthammer
Washington Post
July 23, 2004

Quote:
Did we invade the wrong country? One of the lessons being drawn from the Sept. 11 report is that Iran was the real threat. It had links to al Qaeda, allowed some of the Sept. 11 hijackers to transit and is today harboring al Qaeda leaders. The Iraq war critics have a new line of attack: We should have done Iran instead of Iraq.

Well, of course Iran is a threat and a danger. But how exactly would the critics have "done" Iran? Iran is a serious country with a serious army. Compared with the Iraq war, an invasion of Iran would have been infinitely more costly. Can you imagine these critics, who were shouting "quagmire" and "defeat" when the low-level guerrilla war in Iraq intensified in April, actually supporting war with Iran?

If not war, then what? We know the central foreign policy principle of Bush critics: multilateralism. John Kerry and the Democrats have said it a hundred times: The source of our troubles is President Bush's insistence on "going it alone." They promise to "rejoin the community of nations" and "work with our allies."

Well, that happens to be exactly what we have been doing regarding Iran. And the policy is an abject failure. The Bush administration, having decided that invading one axis-of-evil country was about as much as either the military or the country can bear, has gone multilateral on Iran, precisely what the Democrats advocate. Washington delegated the issue to a committee of three -- the foreign ministers of Britain, France and Germany -- that has been meeting with the Iranians to get them to shut down their nuclear program.

The result? They have been led by the nose. Iran is caught red-handed with illegally enriched uranium, and the Tehran Three prevail upon the Bush administration to do nothing while they persuade the mullahs to act nice. Therefore, we do not go to the U.N. Security Council to declare Iran in violation of the Non-Proliferation Treaty. We do not impose sanctions. We do not begin squeezing Iran to give up its nuclear program.

Instead, we give Iran more time to swoon before the persuasive powers of "Jack of Tehran" -- British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw -- until finally, humiliatingly, Iran announces that it will resume enriching uranium and that nothing will prevent it from becoming a member of the "nuclear club."

The result has not been harmless. Time is of the essence, and the runaround that the Tehran Three have gotten from the mullahs has meant that we have lost at least nine months in doing anything to stop the Iranian nuclear program.

The fact is that the war critics have nothing to offer on the single most urgent issue of our time -- rogue states in pursuit of weapons of mass destruction. Iran instead of Iraq? The Iraq critics would have done nothing about either country. There would today be two major Islamic countries sitting on an ocean of oil, supporting terrorism and seeking weapons of mass destruction -- instead of one.

Two years ago there were five countries supporting terrorism and pursuing these weapons -- two junior-leaguers, Libya and Syria, and the axis-of-evil varsity: Iraq, Iran and North Korea. The Bush administration has eliminated two: Iraq, by direct military means, and Libya, by example and intimidation.

Syria is weak and deterred by Israel. North Korea, having gone nuclear, is untouchable. That leaves Iran. What to do? There are only two things that will stop the Iranian nuclear program: revolution from below or an attack on its nuclear facilities.

The country should be ripe for revolution. The regime is detested. But the mullahs are very good at police-state tactics. The long-awaited revolution is not happening.

Which makes the question of preemptive attack all the more urgent. Iran will go nuclear during the next presidential term. Some Americans wishfully think that the Israelis will do the dirty work for us, as in 1981, when they destroyed Saddam Hussein's nuclear reactor. But for Israel, attacking Iran is a far more difficult proposition. It is farther away. Moreover, detection and antiaircraft technology are far more advanced than they were 20 years ago.

There may be no deus ex machina. If nothing is done, a fanatical terrorist regime openly dedicated to the destruction of the "Great Satan" will have both nuclear weapons and the terrorists and missiles to deliver them. All that stands between us and that is either revolution or preemptive strike.

Both of which, by the way, are far more likely to succeed with 146,000 American troops and highly sophisticated aircraft standing by just a few miles away -- in Iraq.


[email protected]

© 2004 The Washington Post Company
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 03:58 pm
Hudson Review

Bruce Bawer Hating America

Quote:
I moved from the U.S. to Europe in 1998, and I’ve been drawing comparisons ever since. Living in turn in the Netherlands, where kids come out of high school able to speak four languages, where gay marriage is a non-issue, and where book-buying levels are the world’s highest, and in Norway, where a staggering percentage of people read three newspapers a day and where respect for learning is reflected even in Oslo place names (“Professor Aschehoug Square”; “Professor Birkeland Road”), I was tempted at one point to write a book lamenting Americans’ anti-intellectualism—their indifference to foreign languages, ignorance of history, indifference to academic achievement, susceptibility to vulgar religion and trash TV, and so forth. On point after point, I would argue, Europe had us beat.

Yet as my weeks in the Old World stretched into months and then years, my perceptions shifted. Yes, many Europeans were book lovers—but which country’s literature most engaged them? Many of them revered education—but to which country’s universities did they most wish to send their children? (Answer: the same country that performs the majority of the world’s scientific research and wins most of the Nobel Prizes.) Yes, American television was responsible for drivel like “The Ricki Lake Show”—but Europeans, I learned, watched this stuff just as eagerly as Americans did (only to turn around, of course, and mock it as a reflection of American boorishness). No, Europeans weren’t Bible-thumpers—but the Continent’s ever-growing Muslim population, I had come to realize, represented even more of a threat to pluralist democracy than fundamentalist Christians did in the U.S. And yes, more Europeans were multilingual—but then, if each of the fifty states had its own language, Americans would be multilingual, too.1 I’d marveled at Norwegians’ newspaper consumption; but what did they actually read in those newspapers?

That this was, in fact, a crucial question was brought home to me when a travel piece I wrote for the New York Times about a weekend in rural Telemark received front-page coverage in Aftenposten, Norway’s newspaper of record. Not that my article’s contents were remotely newsworthy; its sole news value lay in the fact that Norway had been mentioned in the New York Times. It was astonishing. And even more astonishing was what happened next: the owner of the farm hotel at which I’d stayed, irked that I’d made a point of his want of hospitality, got his revenge by telling reporters that I’d demanded McDonald’s hamburgers for dinner instead of that most Norwegian of delicacies, reindeer steak. Though this was a transparent fabrication (his establishment was located atop a remote mountain, far from the nearest golden arches), the press lapped it up. The story received prominent coverage all over Norway and dragged on for days. My inhospitable host became a folk hero; my irksome weekend trip was transformed into a morality play about the threat posed by vulgar, fast-food-eating American urbanites to cherished native folk traditions. I was flabbergasted. But my erstwhile host obviously wasn’t: he knew his country; he knew its media; and he’d known, accordingly, that all he needed to do to spin events to his advantage was to breathe that talismanic word, McDonald’s.

For me, this startling episode raised a few questions. Why had the Norwegian press given such prominent attention in the first place to a mere travel article? Why had it then been so eager to repeat a cartoonish lie? Were these actions reflective of a society more serious, more thoughtful, than the one I’d left? Or did they reveal a culture, or at least a media class, that was so awed by America as to be flattered by even its slightest attentions but that was also reflexively, irrationally belligerent toward it?

This experience was only part of a larger process of edification. Living in Europe, I gradually came to appreciate American virtues I’d always taken for granted, or even disdained—among them a lack of self-seriousness, a grasp of irony and self-deprecating humor, a friendly informality with strangers, an unashamed curiosity, an openness to new experience, an innate optimism, a willingness to think for oneself and speak one’s mind and question the accepted way of doing things. (One reason why Euro- peans view Americans as ignorant is that when we don’t know something, we’re more likely to admit it freely and ask questions.) While Americans, I saw, cherished liberty, Europeans tended to take it for granted or dismiss it as a naive or cynical, and somehow vaguely embarrassing, American fiction. I found myself toting up words that begin with i: individuality, imagination, initiative, inventiveness, independence of mind. Americans, it seemed to me, were more likely to think for themselves and trust their own judgments, and less easily cowed by authorities or bossed around by “experts”; they believed in their own ability to make things better. No wonder so many smart, ambitious young Europeans look for inspiration to the United States, which has a dynamism their own countries lack, and which communicates the idea that life can be an adventure and that there’s important, exciting work to be done. Reagan-style “morning in America” clichés may make some of us wince, but they reflect something genuine and valuable in the American air. Europeans may or may not have more of a “sense of history” than Americans do (in fact, in a recent study comparing students’ historical knowledge, the results were pretty much a draw), but America has something else that matters—a belief in the future.


MORE TOMORROW(this article is quite long)
0 Replies
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 06:42 pm
ican711nm wrote:
the reincarnation of suzy wrote:
I simply don't believe his heart is in the right place, and frankly, I've seen little evidence of that being the case.


You appear to lack sufficient perspicacity to see such evidence.


Oh, right. So it's my fault, then? hah!

Point out all of his good-hearted actions, if you please. I'm usually so good at seeing and rewarding such things!
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 10:12 pm
Meanwhile back at the ranch................

Friday, July 30, 2004

National Congress Postponed
Fighting in Nasiriyah

In a sign that the political situation in Iraq is even worse than anyone had suspected, the caretaker Iraqi government has had to postpone the holding of national congress until mid-August. The complicated selection process for choosing delegates had favored the expatriate parties and politicians, and had stirred up bad feelings by important players who felt excluded. The Sunnis of largely Shiite Basra are among those constituencies that felt shortchanged by the process. So far no press reporting I have seen has given the full details of the floor fights in key cities, but apparently in some cases they have been vicious.

One group that feels shortchanged is the religious Shiites, whose parties have not been given the sort of representation their size and influence would merit. An aide to Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, according to NPR, has urged Iraqi Shiites to be patient, and to put their hopes in the January 2005 elections.

The problem is that this postponement is not a good sign for the country's ability to hold one person, one vote parliamentary elections only five months from now.

Meanwhile, Italian troops in Nasiriyah clashed with militiamen who tried to take control of two bridges into the city. The militiamen were not identified but are likely to be followers of Muqtada al-Sadr. These sorts of incidents suggest that PM Allawi really is just the mayor of downtown Baghdad, and that neither the Iraqi government nor the US-led coalition really are in control of Iraq's cities. (-ash-Sharq al-Awsat)

posted by Juan @ 7/30/2004 08:21:16 AM
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jul, 2004 12:49 am
Ican, you mention Iran.

It was always the neocon plan to use bases in Iraq as the start of a military campaign to control neighbouring countries.

What I can't understand is how anyone can peddle the lies you spread, to justify it.

I don't doubt that Islamic fundamentalism has to be controlled, but current actions have the opposite effect. Ergo, current actions are for another purpose.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jul, 2004 10:49 am
the reincarnation of suzy wrote:
Oh, right. So it's my fault, then?


Very Good! You've got that right!

the reincarnation of suzy wrote:
Point out all of his good-hearted actions


It will take too long. How about just a few:
1. Says what he believes and believes what he says;
2. Says what he does and does what he says;
3. Works to help people help themselves.
4. Works to help people secure their liberty.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jul, 2004 10:53 am
From the article Ican posted:
Quote:
My inhospitable host became a folk hero; my irksome weekend trip was transformed into a morality play about the threat posed by vulgar, fast-food-eating American urbanites to cherished native folk traditions. I was flabbergasted. But my erstwhile host obviously wasn't: he knew his country; he knew its media; and he'd known, accordingly, that all he needed to do to spin events to his advantage was to breathe that talismanic word, McDonald's


Some years ago my husband and I took a sabbatical from our normal lives and went to West Virginia for four months where he attended photography school. There we became good friends with a man, of Chinese descent, also a student at the school, who was a citizen of Hong Kong but living in France on an education visa. When not in class, he joined us and another student from the school to travel around that part of the country and take in quite a bit of Americana. Slowly, ever so slowly, he changed his perceptions about America and Americans almost all developed from watching American television filtered through the prejudices of the French. It took us quite awhile to break him from inappropriately sprinkling his English with American profanity. (Of course we learned quite a few new French swear words too.) We have kept in touch all these years long after he returned home. There is one won over by simply being with us Americans.

But how does one change enmity to friendship when dealing with a whole, hostile country?
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