THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

...They have bought the party line hook and sinker...and any explanation that can be thought of on short notice...will suffice to refute anything anyone says. You are, as they say in the Navy, pissing into the wind. But I am enjoying it...so don't stop on my account.

And Revel I don't expect some here to believe anything is good in Iraq when they want so badly for the current administration to be as bad as they think it is and for the effort in Iraq to fail so they can be right. And I think many in the media are of that same mindset. I don't think anybody really wants anyone to experience pain and suffering. But I come from a military family and know lots of folks who are over there. Unless you have talked to people there yourself, you have no basis whatsoever to conclude I'm lying.

The violence will not disappear before, during or after January 30. Democracy cannot be practiced in an environment of uncontrolled violence.

The following text is a fatwa, or declaration of war, by Osama bin Laden first published in Al Quds Al Arabi, a London-based newspaper, in August, 1996. The fatwa is entitled "Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places."

Few days ago the news agencies had reported that the Defence Secretary of the Crusading Americans had said that "the explosion at Riyadh and Al-Khobar had taught him one lesson: that is not to withdraw when attacked by coward terrorists".

We say to the Defence Secretary that his talk can induce a grieving mother to laughter! and shows the fears that had enshrined you all. Where was this false courage of yours when the explosion in Beirut took place on 1983 AD (1403 A.H). You were turned into scattered pits and pieces at that time; 241 mainly marines solders were killed. And where was this courage of yours when two explosions made you to leave Aden in lees than twenty four hours!

But your most disgraceful case was in Somalia; where- after vigorous propaganda about the power of the USA and its post cold war leadership of the new world order- you moved tens of thousands of international force, including twenty eight thousands American solders into Somalia. However, when tens of your solders were killed in minor battles and one American Pilot was dragged in the streets of Mogadishu you left the area carrying disappointment, humiliation, defeat and your dead with you. Clinton appeared in front of the whole world threatening and promising revenge , but these threats were merely a preparation for withdrawal. You have been disgraced by Allah and you withdrew; the extent of your impotence and weaknesses became very clear. It was a pleasure for the "heart" of every Muslim and a remedy to the "chests" of believing nations to see you defeated in the three Islamic cities of Beirut , Aden and Mogadishu.

Those youths know that their rewards in fighting you, the USA, is double than their rewards in fighting some one else not from the people of the book. They have no intention except to enter paradise by killing you. An infidel, and enemy of God like you, cannot be in the same hell with his righteous executioner.

Marshal Law established on such a basis, destroys every guarantee of the Constitution, and effectually renders the "military independent of, and superior to, the civil power,"--the attempt to do which by the King of Great Britain was deemed by our fathers such an offense, that they assigned it to the world as one of the causes which impelled them to declare their independence. Civil liberty and this kind of martial law cannot endure together; the antagonism is irreconcilable and, in the conflict, one or the other must perish.

From: "Cases on Constitutional Law, Fifth Edition," by Charles G. Fenwick, Chicago, Callahan and Company, 1942, "Restrictions Uon Congress, Ex Parte Milligan," 1866, page 547.

The media has been consistently wrong since before the war began. The media presents news they feel will generate the greatest amount of fear, doubt and uncertainty among their readers.

They will print whatever it takes to get people's attention.

Well, when you piss into the wind, you know who it winds up on.

Ican, Where is the proof for the following information?

[I assume you meant where is some evidence in stead of where is the proof]

Quote:

...We've already had a chance to learn that many many of the prisoner abuse accusations are false or terribly exaggerated.

[First, from what I have read and seen, all the prisoner abuse accusations are limited to small groups of less than a dozen people for each abuse situation. They are not systemic throughout all our troops in Iraq and throughout the rest of our military. Second, almost all of that which is termed abusive treatment of non-uniformed prisoners does not really constitute torture abuse as I understand it. That is, it is not wounding, disabling, crippling or killing. It is at worst only terribly obnoxious. Third, in some cases of actual killing of prisoners, the killing was actually justifiable. I'm thinking of one soldier who shot a moving prisoner he first thought was dead. I think the insurgents who booby trap their dead, or booby trap or arm their wounded to kill their captors, forfeit their own, and their dead and wounded's rights to humane treatment. Why? Because captors have a right to human treatment and should be free from the risk of being wounded or killed when tending to the enemy's wounded, or transporting and burying the enemy's dead.]

From what I have been reading lately the earlier reports of the abuse were whitewashed as more and more information comes to light.
[Can you provide some evidence of such whitewash? Anecdotal evidence will, for me, suffice as some evidence]

For those who see this disaster for what it is...a question: What do you suppose has to happen....what set of circumstances do you guess has to surface...before the likes of Bill, Fox, McG and the rest will come to terms with this mess?

and now for your intertainment we have presented for your viewing pleasure "justified abuse" (almost seems an oxymoron -almost)

I can hardly blame you ican, I would probably come up with similar responses were I in your shoes.

And Revel I don't expect some here to believe anything is good in Iraq when they want so badly for the current administration to be as bad as they think it is and for the effort in Iraq to fail so they can be right. And I think many in the media are of that same mindset. I don't think anybody really wants anyone to experience pain and suffering. But I come from a military family and know lots of folks who are over there. Unless you have talked to people there yourself, you have no basis whatsoever to conclude I'm lying.

A Marine recently recounted the story of an excursion he and his buddies were on to deliver some soccer balls to a school in Iraq that they'd had a hand in rebuilding.

There was an embedded reporter along for the ride when they were ambushed. Luckily, no one was hurt, but due to some minor damage to their vehicle, they had to return before accomplishing their mission (to deliver the soccer balls).

The Marine's purpose in telling this story was to complain about how the story was presented in the media. The reporter accurately reported the account of the attack (don't they just love the gore) and the Marines' response. He made no mention of the purpose of the mission, no mention of the soccer balls, no mention of the reconstructed school.

This is but one of many such stories that no one will hear. <Shrugs>