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THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 09:36 am
Ah, you mean that is similar to what parents told their children in the American Zone of Germany, namely not to go out alone because ...?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 09:38 am
yeah, kinda like that, only different you know.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 09:40 am
Them we should post "Out of Bonds"-signs outsite ... e.g. Kongo.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 09:42 am
The NYTimes seems to think it's worth repeating. Perhaps those with the most angst over seeing the US as the bully to the world could focus their time and talent on righting the wrongs elsewhere.

I won't hold my breath Smile
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 10:03 am
JustWonders wrote:
Perhaps those with the most angst over seeing the US as the bully to the world could focus their time and talent on righting the wrongs elsewhere.

I won't hold my breath Smile


Quote:
Fifty countries are represented among the 1,000 civilian employees¹ and 10,800 soldiers².

¹Argentina, Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Chad, Côte d'Ivoire, France, Guinea, Jordan, Mali, Morocco, Niger, Nigeria, Portugal, Romania, Russian Federation, Senegal, Sweden, Switzerland and Turkey

²: Algeria, Bangladesh, Belgium, Benin, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Canada, China, Czech Republic, Denmark, Egypt, France, Ghana, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Jordan, Kenya, Malawi, Malaysia, Mali, Mongolia, Morocco, Mozambique, Nepal, Niger, Nigeria, Pakistan, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Romania, Russian Federation, Senegal, Serbia and Montenegro, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Switzerland, Tunisia, Ukraine, United Kingdom, Uruguay and Zambia

Special Representative of the Secretary-General and Chief of Mission:
William Lacy Swing (United States)


Not to forget:
Fatalities: 33 military personnel
8 military observers
2 international civilian
1 local civilian
44 total
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 11:37 am
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
o'bill. i truly think that you are mistaken with your view on revel and cyclo, and possibly even the et al

from what i'm taking away from most of their comments it this;

if you purport to be the moral arbiter of a situation, you must hold your actions up to a higher standard, and scrutiny, than those that you are judging and/or punishing.

if you do things in that way, it is easy to see why the abu gharaib events needed to be addressed in the harshest terms. i say that in full acknowledgement that nothing that i've heard about happening there comes close to what our enemies do. but we are supposed to be the good guys. when one of our own does this crap, it undermines the stated mission. that, does the soldiers in iraq no good. and it does our country a disservice.

The anti-American pre-disposition I speak of isn't an isolated impression on the subject at hand. It wasn't born of the last couple days of this thread, and won't dissipate upon having a post or two's meaning more clearly defined. I'm not suggesting anyone here hates America. I'm on this soapbox because I'm sick and tired of the "Blame America First" club's constant America bashing. I'm not suggesting anyone doesn't have the right to their opinion. I'm not even suggesting Americans don't deserve much of the criticism we receive and more.

Of course we should try and put our best foot forward in hopes of winning the hearts and minds of those we aim to liberate, for our own sake as well as theirs. THAT is obvious enough to go without say. Indeed, who disagrees? THAT isn't the impression given off by consistently assuming the worst about America in every partial news-blurb...
Criminals are being tried for violations at Abu Ghraib, even as we speak. I've heard no credible person suggest that shouldn't be the case. Those who choose to reference these crimes, over and over, as if they were representative of the United State's intentions are guilty of unabashed America-bashing. They deride the 99%+ of U.S. soldiers and Americans in general who are every bit as disgusted by human rights abuses as they are.
American people, like all people are good and bad. If you want to judge them as a group, judge them by the actions of the vast majority... not the isolated few. Those who constantly revert back to the deplorable actions of the isolated few to characterize the many are guilty of, you guessed it; anti-American bias. This tendency is uniformly frowned upon as it relates to pretty much every other group of people... but somehow, for some reason, some don't think America deserves the same courtesy.

I'm suggesting that there has to be some equilibrium. There is nobility in holding yourself up to higher standards than your enemy. WE DO. As you pointed out, our abuses at Abu Ghraib are not comparable to the abuses of our predecessors at Abu Ghraib… but that isn't the biggest distinction. That we are now taking steps to punish the guilty, and correct the atmosphere in hopes of reducing the number of offenses IS. I can't tell you how repulsed I am by the America-basher's constant use of this offense as a summary-characterization of our actions. Expectations that there be no offenses of this kind go beyond idealism, pretty much all the way to idiocy. War is hell. When hundreds of thousands of individuals are engaged in a violent conflict, some of them are going to break the rules. Abuses of this kind will take place regardless of who the combatants are. When our soldiers do, it is a reflection of this simple truth, not the United States of America. How an individual chooses to portray it in relation to the U.S.; is a reflection of his or her own predisposition towards the United States of America. Entirely too often for my taste, said predisposition reflects an ANTI-AMERICAN BIAS...
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 11:38 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
OCCOM BILL seems to have reached a position, most of us - if any - will ever get:

Judge at the Highest Court of American and International Morality.
Whatever Walter. OCCOM BILL is no guiltier of this than anyone else here, including you. Idea
Pretty much the catalyst for political debate in general, isn't it?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 11:38 am
McTag wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
That being said; there are lots of liberals on and off A2K who's sentiments appear anti-American rarely-to-never. Nimh and Soz come to mind immediately. C.I., McTag and you, on the other hand consistently assume the worst about America and generally only begrudgingly admit anything good about it.


I think any world power only acts out of pure self-interest, and it is very misleading to attribute "human" motives for what it does, such as benevolence, hatred, or any number of other things.
Not true. Some world powers are reflective of, and have to answer to, their constituencies. Can arrogance not be expected of Americans or French? Can tolerance not be expected of Canadians or Dutch?

McTag wrote:
From my standpoint now, I look on this current administration as your author Al Franken does when he wrote "Dude, Where's My Country?" in that I do not recognise the former USA in today's version. I consider this invasion as a crime, and America to be very mis-led.
I consider this an insult. Neither I, nor the majority of my countrymen recognize Al Franken as our spokesperson. We elected George Bush for that job. I respect you for marching for your beliefs, but don't let A2K's liberal slant fool you: Neither I nor the majority of my countrymen agree with your reasons for doing it. We re-elected George Bush despite, and in part because, of you (and your ilk's) assumption that we were foolishly mislead. While you are recognizing everyone's right to dissent, you damn well better recognize the majority's right to agree with Bush's actions. While we are certainly less likely to be offended when you attack Bush & Co., instead of Americans in general, such attacks nonetheless are on us. "How can 300,000,000 people be so stupid?" is not a headline likely to win our hearts and minds, you know? I wonder if any other alpha's benevolence was ever taken for granted so often or easily as ours, let alone denied.

You and Revel pretending that comparing alphas to alphas is irrelevant is akin to employees comparing what they would do if they were in charge, to the person who actually had the wherewithall to be in charge. You can't judge a CEO without comparing him to other CEOs. Stating that Jane from Human Resources or ANY other would-be leader might be better is what's irrelevant. Now, once you reconcile yourself to this simple truth you have little choice but to admit that the United States is head and shoulders above any and all of history's alpha's in terms of benevolence. So distasteful is such an admission to you to that you've gone to great lengths to avoid it. Even in your catch up round when you cited the question, you still avoided the answer. Idea

McTag wrote:
Assuming America were the big stick and some other country were doing the "heart and minds", and supervising the rebuilding of the country, which must include education, social provision, legal system, administration as well as infrastructure of roads, sewerage, telecomms, utilities, hosptals, houses, and all other things...no little task...I pick Norway, for dependability, Ireland, for keeping a sense of humour and proportion when all about you others were losing theirs, or Britain, which has experience in the region.
Laughing What's so different? America is carrying Teddy Roosevelt's big stick… relatively quietly (all things considered), "Britain" is providing their expertise… so what's left? Oh ya, nobody else is stepping up to the plate, so the US and some of her allies INCLUDING IRAQ (Idea) are rebuilding the country; including schools, social provisions, a new legal system, administration as well as infrastructure of roads, sewerage, telecoms, utilities, hospitals, houses, and all manner of other things. Where are those pesky Irish and Norwegians anyway? :wink:
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 11:39 am
revel wrote:
Bill, I did not play dumb as you put it. I was attempting to tell you why your point was not a valid one even if what you claimed was true with all my many posts in response to yours. I suppose I should of clarified my silly little line about my scratching my head to make myself better understood.
I'm about done giving you the benefit of the doubt, whether you're playing or not.

revel wrote:
I was not confused about your point, I was confused of why you would use that point when it didn't apply to the question at hand. I simply don't see what difference it makes how good we are when it comes to judging our actions.
Shocked Are you playing there?

revel wrote:
I consider our actions of going into Iraq in itself to be something that should in a just world be addressed and those that did it should be held accountable. If by saying that you believe me to anti american, so be it.
I've been exceedingly clear why I think your sentiments (not you) to be anti-American. That isn't it.

revel wrote:
I consider the abuses that were allowed to happen to be something that needs to addressed by people that do not have an inherit conflict of interest. If by saying that you believe me to be anti-american, so be it.
Nope. You missed again. Try putting that out of your mind while considering my separate but related point and it may be easier to see. You don't have to agree to understand, ya know.
revel wrote:
If there are other people in other countries or countries themselves who commit worse offenses it still does not excuse our own. Why is that so hard to understand?
No one is having trouble understanding this, Revel. That's not conducive to ANYBODY's point. If that's all you've gotten from this exchange, it is an utter waste of both of our time to continue it. Look back again to Cycloptichorn's response… and see what a difference TRYING to understand makes.

revel wrote:
John 21:21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
Shocked WTF? I give up.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 11:44 am
OBill's quote, "Criminals are being tried for violations at Abu Ghraib, even as we speak." The primary problem with this kind of statement is the fact that it's human nature to violate others when given the opportunity. The high command of the US army should have known that there always exists potential for this kind of thing to happen in a war zone. That doesn't relieve the US of any responsibility when it happens. What is wrong is the fact that only lower ranking soldiers are being punished.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 11:59 am
Bill Wrote:
Quote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
It seems to be a common thing for A2K liberals to set the bar for United States far above where it's ever been set for anyone else, and then turn around and be hyper-critical when we fail to reach the unprecedented plateau. Quite simply, that's not fair. Your continued refusal to examine our performance against any comparable competition further exemplifies your anti-American bias.


Man, you can't take a day off on this thread without being 10 pages behind! All this discussion is a good thing.

I don't think it's just the liberals on A2K that have placed the 'imaginary bar' so high, I believe we have placed it that high ourselves by attempting what is basically a brand-new and quite unique foreign policy.

We are much better than other nations who have invaded and become occupiers of smaller nations; but the comparison to a bunch of facist and communist, aggresive, expansionist regimes will undoubtedly leave the US looking rosy in comparison, as we simply aren't one of those.

I believe that arabs everywhere are looking at our actions when they are trying to decide whether or not democracy will work for them. That is the real issue, yaknow: not defeating the insurgents, but convincing the Iraqi people that democracy will work and is a good thing, and by extension Iran and Syria, etc.. If the thing works, it could be a tipping point for the whole region.

So I see why we went to Iraq, even though the fact they had to use the WMD lie to drum up support has tarnished the whole thing somewhat. But for us to succeed, we have to be on our super-best behaviour; we are being judged by a jury of angry Muslims, and it's going to be hard to win them over with anything less than a spotless case.

That being said, we have a few strikes against us already, with Abu Grhaib and the latest Fallujah assault basically doing nothing more than displacing 200k people from their homes. We need to play the last few cards in our hand well, or the whole thing is going to fold up on us.

As for the coming elections, we've really been put inbetween a rock and a hard place; it seems as if Bush is determined to go on with the elections, and the insurgents are determined to break up the elections. This seems a recepie for violence for this cook, and how much violence will it take before people start calling bullshit on the whole thing? That would be disatrous. You could swell the insurgent's ranks by a 100k overnight. We must tread extremely lightly over the next month...

I was saddened (but not shocked) to read this today:

Quote:
Iraqi voter registration site attacked

Mortars kill 1 civilian, wound 8 others north of Baghdad


http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/12/18/iraq.main/index.html

Cycloptichorn
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 12:00 pm
The soldiers involved are being punished and if they are the lower ranking ones, then it is appropriate that only the lower ranking soldiers are punished. If your employee steals a customer's wallet, you may feel you need to issue an apology (the administration did that) and that you need to make restitution to the victim (the administration did that), but do you think you should go to jail along with your employee?
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 12:01 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
OBill's quote, "Criminals are being tried for violations at Abu Ghraib, even as we speak." The primary problem with this kind of statement is the fact that it's human nature to violate others when given the opportunity. The high command of the US army should have known that there always exists potential for this kind of thing to happen in a war zone. That doesn't relieve the US of any responsibility when it happens. What is wrong is the fact that only lower ranking soldiers are being punished.
You are correct when you state that it sickeningly does seem to be human nature to violate others. Where your logic falls off the map, is in assuming it is possible to anticipate and eliminate all forms of this abuse in advance. Even knowing what we know now, I doubt it is even possible to eliminate this type of abuse altogether. I feel safe in the assumption that those who are responsible are being tried. The person who runs the post office isn't necessarily culpable when a postal worker goes postal. Unless you have some evidence that a responsible party, who can be evidentially linked to the crime, is not being charged, your accusation is a groundless assumption. Guess what it says about your predisposition that you don't think the mid to high level officers of the United States Military should be presumed innocent just like everyone else... Idea
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 12:02 pm
Quote:
The soldiers involved are being punished and if they are the lower ranking ones, then it is appropriate that only the lower ranking soldiers are punished. If your employee steals a customer's wallet, you may feel you need to issue an apology (the administration did that) and that you need to make restitution to the victim (the administration did that), but do you think you should go to jail along with your employee?


In this case, a better analogy would be this: we're punishing a murderer by cutting off his hands.

It's the head that goes unpunished when we only go after the base soldiers, who were merely following orders.

Cycloptichorn
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 12:03 pm
We are not talking about "stolen wallets." Get with the program.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 12:07 pm
I'll have to ask for some verification that the soldiers were just following orders Cyclop. All the information I've seen, including their own testimony, is that they were acting on their own.

No, we're not talking about 'stolen wallets' CI, but we're talking about accountability and culpability. You might be culpable in the theft of your customer's wallet if you failed to do a sufficient background on him when you hired him, but are you guilty as he is guilty? If soldiers violate orders and overstep their authority and break the rules/law/code or whatever, is it appropriate to court marshall the general?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 12:12 pm
Foxfyre, It's very evident you have never served in the armed forces of the US or any other army.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 12:19 pm
In Congo War, Even Peacekeepers Add to Horror
By MARC LACEY

Published: December 18, 2004


UNIA, Congo, Dec. 16 - In the corner of the tent where she says a soldier forced himself on her, Helen, a frail fifth grader with big eyes and skinny legs, remembers seeing a blue helmet.

The United Nations peacekeeper who tore off her clothes had used a cup of milk to lure her close, she said in her high-pitched voice, fidgeting as she spoke. It was her favorite drink, she said, but one her family could rarely afford. "I was so happy," she said.


After she gulped it down, the foreign soldier pulled Helen, a 12-year-old, into bed, she said. About an hour later, he gave her a dollar, put a finger to his lips and pushed her out of his tent, she said.

In this same eastern outpost, another United Nations peacekeeper, unable to communicate with a 13-year-old Swahili-speaking girl who walked past him, held up a cookie and gestured for her to draw near. As the girl, Solange, who recounted the incident with tears in her eyes the other day, reached for the cookie, the soldier reached for her. She, too, said she was raped.

The United Nations said recently that it had uncovered 150 allegations of sexual abuse committed by United Nations peacekeepers stationed in Congo, many of them here in Bunia where the population has already suffered horrendous atrocities committed by local fighters. The raping of women and girls is an all-too-common tactic in the war raging in Congo's eastern jungles involving numerous militia groups. In Bunia, a program run by Unicef has treated 2,000 victims of sexual violence in recent months. But it is not just the militia members who have been preying on the women. So, too, local women say, have some of the soldiers brought in to keep the peace.

The United Nations secretary general, Kofi Annan, said recently that there was "clear evidence that acts of gross misconduct have taken place" in the United Nations mission in Congo, which began in early 2000 and is known by its French acronym, Monuc. Mr. Annan added, "This is a shameful thing for the United Nations to have to say, and I am absolutely outraged by it."

The number of cases may be impossible for United Nations investigators to determine precisely. Helen and Solange said in recent interviews that they had not told their stories even to their parents, never mind to United Nations officials. Rape carries a heavy stigma here, both girls made clear. They told their stories when approached by a reporter.

"I didn't tell my mother because she would beat me," said a grim-faced Solange, starring at the ground. Solange, a sixth-grade dropout, said she had no interest in visiting a health clinic or seeing one of the psychologists that Unicef has paid for to counsel the many rape victims in and around Bunia. If she seeks help, the girl said, her mother might find out.

Helen's mother is dead, and Helen did not dare tell her father for fear of a beating. She said she knew he would blame her for going near the soldiers in the first place and might even throw her out of the house.

Helen did go on her own to a health clinic soon after the assault because she said she hurt between her legs. The health worker gave her something to drink, which she paid for with the same dollar that the soldier had given her, she said.

"I was so afraid when he took my clothes off," Helen said, fidgeting with her dirty T-shirt. "I was quiet. I didn't say anything."

The allegations leveled against United Nations personnel in Congo include sex with underage partners, sex with prostitutes and rape, an internal United Nations investigation has found. Investigators said they found evidence that United Nations peacekeepers and civilian workers paid $1 to $3 for sex or bartered sexual relations for food or promises of employment. A confidential report prepared by Prince Zeid Raad al-Hussein, Jordan's ambassador to the United Nations, and dated Nov. 8, says the exploitation "appears to be significant, widespread and ongoing."

Violators described in the investigation, which continues, appear to come from around the globe. Fifty countries are represented among the 1,000 civilian employees and 10,800 soldiers who make up the United Nations mission in Congo. Already, a French civilian has been accused of having sex with a girl, though it is unclear where that case stands, and two Tunisian peacekeepers have been sent home, where the local authorities will decide whether to punish them.

The United Nations report details allegations of sexual misconduct by peacekeepers from Nepal, Pakistan, Morocco, Tunisia, South Africa and Uruguay, and lists incidents in which some soldiers tried to obstruct investigators.

When they arrive for duty, peacekeepers are presented with the United Nations code of conduct, which forbids "any exchange of money, employment, goods or services for sex."

The home countries are responsible for punishing any of their military personnel who violate the code while taking part in a United Nations peacekeeping mission.

The United Nations, which has had previous scandals in missions in Cambodia and Bosnia, also warns the soldiers against sexual contact with girls under 18, even though the law in Congo permits sex with girls as young as 14.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 12:22 pm
Quote:
I'll have to ask for some verification that the soldiers were just following orders Cyclop. All the information I've seen, including their own testimony, is that they were acting on their own.


That's for two reasons, Fox:

#1, you don't want to believe that it went all the way up, so you don't. It's a classic symptom of conservatism.

#2, soldiers are trained to take the fall for their superiors. It's not surprising that they don't want to tell the truth; look at the amazing difference of treatment of the exposers of Abu Ghraib, and the perpetrators of the tortures, and you'll see what I mean.

But, because you want sources, here ya go:

From the New Yorker:

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact

Quote:


TORTURE AT ABU GHRAIB
by SEYMOUR M. HERSH
American soldiers brutalized Iraqis. How far up does the responsibility go?
Issue of 2004-05-10
Posted 2004-04-30
In the era of Saddam Hussein, Abu Ghraib, twenty miles west of Baghdad, was one of the world's most notorious prisons, with torture, weekly executions, and vile living conditions. As many as fifty thousand men and women?-no accurate count is possible?-were jammed into Abu Ghraib at one time, in twelve-by-twelve-foot cells that were little more than human holding pits.

In the looting that followed the regime's collapse, last April, the huge prison complex, by then deserted, was stripped of everything that could be removed, including doors, windows, and bricks. The coalition authorities had the floors tiled, cells cleaned and repaired, and toilets, showers, and a new medical center added. Abu Ghraib was now a U.S. military prison. Most of the prisoners, however?-by the fall there were several thousand, including women and teen-agers?-were civilians, many of whom had been picked up in random military sweeps and at highway checkpoints. They fell into three loosely defined categories: common criminals; security detainees suspected of "crimes against the coalition"; and a small number of suspected "high-value" leaders of the insurgency against the coalition forces.

Last June, Janis Karpinski, an Army reserve brigadier general, was named commander of the 800th Military Police Brigade and put in charge of military prisons in Iraq. General Karpinski, the only female commander in the war zone, was an experienced operations and intelligence officer who had served with the Special Forces and in the 1991 Gulf War, but she had never run a prison system. Now she was in charge of three large jails, eight battalions, and thirty-four hundred Army reservists, most of whom, like her, had no training in handling prisoners.

General Karpinski, who had wanted to be a soldier since she was five, is a business consultant in civilian life, and was enthusiastic about her new job. In an interview last December with the St. Petersburg Times, she said that, for many of the Iraqi inmates at Abu Ghraib, "living conditions now are better in prison than at home. At one point we were concerned that they wouldn't want to leave."

A month later, General Karpinski was formally admonished and quietly suspended, and a major investigation into the Army's prison system, authorized by Lieutenant General Ricardo S. Sanchez, the senior commander in Iraq, was under way. A fifty-three-page report, obtained by The New Yorker, written by Major General Antonio M. Taguba and not meant for public release, was completed in late February. Its conclusions about the institutional failures of the Army prison system were devastating. Specifically, Taguba found that between October and December of 2003 there were numerous instances of "sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses" at Abu Ghraib. This systematic and illegal abuse of detainees, Taguba reported, was perpetrated by soldiers of the 372nd Military Police Company, and also by members of the American intelligence community. (The 372nd was attached to the 320th M.P. Battalion, which reported to Karpinski's brigade headquarters.) Taguba's report listed some of the wrongdoing:

Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees; pouring cold water on naked detainees; beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair; threatening male detainees with rape; allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell; sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick, and using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.


There was stunning evidence to support the allegations, Taguba added?-"detailed witness statements and the discovery of extremely graphic photographic evidence." Photographs and videos taken by the soldiers as the abuses were happening were not included in his report, Taguba said, because of their "extremely sensitive nature."

The photographs?-several of which were broadcast on CBS's "60 Minutes 2" last week?-show leering G.I.s taunting naked Iraqi prisoners who are forced to assume humiliating poses. Six suspects?-Staff Sergeant Ivan L. Frederick II, known as Chip, who was the senior enlisted man; Specialist Charles A. Graner; Sergeant Javal Davis; Specialist Megan Ambuhl; Specialist Sabrina Harman; and Private Jeremy Sivits?-are now facing prosecution in Iraq, on charges that include conspiracy, dereliction of duty, cruelty toward prisoners, maltreatment, assault, and indecent acts. A seventh suspect, Private Lynndie England, was reassigned to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, after becoming pregnant.

The photographs tell it all. In one, Private England, a cigarette dangling from her mouth, is giving a jaunty thumbs-up sign and pointing at the genitals of a young Iraqi, who is naked except for a sandbag over his head, as he masturbates. Three other hooded and naked Iraqi prisoners are shown, hands reflexively crossed over their genitals. A fifth prisoner has his hands at his sides. In another, England stands arm in arm with Specialist Graner; both are grinning and giving the thumbs-up behind a cluster of perhaps seven naked Iraqis, knees bent, piled clumsily on top of each other in a pyramid. There is another photograph of a cluster of naked prisoners, again piled in a pyramid. Near them stands Graner, smiling, his arms crossed; a woman soldier stands in front of him, bending over, and she, too, is smiling. Then, there is another cluster of hooded bodies, with a female soldier standing in front, taking photographs. Yet another photograph shows a kneeling, naked, unhooded male prisoner, head momentarily turned away from the camera, posed to make it appear that he is performing oral sex on another male prisoner, who is naked and hooded.

Such dehumanization is unacceptable in any culture, but it is especially so in the Arab world. Homosexual acts are against Islamic law and it is humiliating for men to be naked in front of other men, Bernard Haykel, a professor of Middle Eastern studies at New York University, explained. "Being put on top of each other and forced to masturbate, being naked in front of each other?-it's all a form of torture," Haykel said.

Two Iraqi faces that do appear in the photographs are those of dead men. There is the battered face of prisoner No. 153399, and the bloodied body of another prisoner, wrapped in cellophane and packed in ice. There is a photograph of an empty room, splattered with blood.

The 372nd's abuse of prisoners seemed almost routine?-a fact of Army life that the soldiers felt no need to hide. On April 9th, at an Article 32 hearing (the military equivalent of a grand jury) in the case against Sergeant Frederick, at Camp Victory, near Baghdad, one of the witnesses, Specialist Matthew Wisdom, an M.P., told the courtroom what happened when he and other soldiers delivered seven prisoners, hooded and bound, to the so-called "hard site" at Abu Ghraib?-seven tiers of cells where the inmates who were considered the most dangerous were housed. The men had been accused of starting a riot in another section of the prison. Wisdom said:

SFC Snider grabbed my prisoner and threw him into a pile. . . . I do not think it was right to put them in a pile. I saw SSG Frederic, SGT Davis and CPL Graner walking around the pile hitting the prisoners. I remember SSG Frederick hitting one prisoner in the side of its [sic] ribcage. The prisoner was no danger to SSG Frederick. . . . I left after that.


When he returned later, Wisdom testified:

I saw two naked detainees, one masturbating to another kneeling with its mouth open. I thought I should just get out of there. I didn't think it was right . . . I saw SSG Frederick walking towards me, and he said, "Look what these animals do when you leave them alone for two seconds." I heard PFC England shout out, "He's getting hard."


Wisdom testified that he told his superiors what had happened, and assumed that "the issue was taken care of." He said, "I just didn't want to be part of anything that looked criminal."



The abuses became public because of the outrage of Specialist Joseph M. Darby, an M.P. whose role emerged during the Article 32 hearing against Chip Frederick. A government witness, Special Agent Scott Bobeck, who is a member of the Army's Criminal Investigation Division, or C.I.D., told the court, according to an abridged transcript made available to me, "The investigation started after SPC Darby . . . got a CD from CPL Graner. . . . He came across pictures of naked detainees." Bobeck said that Darby had "initially put an anonymous letter under our door, then he later came forward and gave a sworn statement. He felt very bad about it and thought it was very wrong."

Questioned further, the Army investigator said that Frederick and his colleagues had not been given any "training guidelines" that he was aware of. The M.P.s in the 372nd had been assigned to routine traffic and police duties upon their arrival in Iraq, in the spring of 2003. In October of 2003, the 372nd was ordered to prison-guard duty at Abu Ghraib. Frederick, at thirty-seven, was far older than his colleagues, and was a natural leader; he had also worked for six years as a guard for the Virginia Department of Corrections. Bobeck explained:

What I got is that SSG Frederick and CPL Graner were road M.P.s and were put in charge because they were civilian prison guards and had knowledge of how things were supposed to be run.


Bobeck also testified that witnesses had said that Frederick, on one occasion, "had punched a detainee in the chest so hard that the detainee almost went into cardiac arrest."

At the Article 32 hearing, the Army informed Frederick and his attorneys, Captain Robert Shuck, an Army lawyer, and Gary Myers, a civilian, that two dozen witnesses they had sought, including General Karpinski and all of Frederick's co-defendants, would not appear. Some had been excused after exercising their Fifth Amendment right; others were deemed to be too far away from the courtroom. "The purpose of an Article 32 hearing is for us to engage witnesses and discover facts," Gary Myers told me. "We ended up with a c.i.d. agent and no alleged victims to examine." After the hearing, the presiding investigative officer ruled that there was sufficient evidence to convene a court-martial against Frederick.

Myers, who was one of the military defense attorneys in the My Lai prosecutions of the nineteen-seventies, told me that his client's defense will be that he was carrying out the orders of his superiors and, in particular, the directions of military intelligence. He said, "Do you really think a group of kids from rural Virginia decided to do this on their own? Decided that the best way to embarrass Arabs and make them talk was to have them walk around nude?"

In letters and e-mails to family members, Frederick repeatedly noted that the military-intelligence teams, which included C.I.A. officers and linguists and interrogation specialists from private defense contractors, were the dominant force inside Abu Ghraib. In a letter written in January, he said:

I questioned some of the things that I saw . . . such things as leaving inmates in their cell with no clothes or in female underpants, handcuffing them to the door of their cell?-and the answer I got was, "This is how military intelligence (MI) wants it done." . . . . MI has also instructed us to place a prisoner in an isolation cell with little or no clothes, no toilet or running water, no ventilation or window, for as much as three days.


The military-intelligence officers have "encouraged and told us, ?'Great job,' they were now getting positive results and information," Frederick wrote. "CID has been present when the military working dogs were used to intimidate prisoners at MI's request." At one point, Frederick told his family, he pulled aside his superior officer, Lieutenant Colonel Jerry Phillabaum, the commander of the 320th M.P. Battalion, and asked about the mistreatment of prisoners. "His reply was ?'Don't worry about it.'"

In November, Frederick wrote, an Iraqi prisoner under the control of what the Abu Ghraib guards called "O.G.A.," or other government agencies?-that is, the C.I.A. and its paramilitary employees?-was brought to his unit for questioning. "They stressed him out so bad that the man passed away. They put his body in a body bag and packed him in ice for approximately twenty-four hours in the shower. . . . The next day the medics came and put his body on a stretcher, placed a fake IV in his arm and took him away." The dead Iraqi was never entered into the prison's inmate-control system, Frederick recounted, "and therefore never had a number."

Frederick's defense is, of course, highly self-serving. But the complaints in his letters and e-mails home were reinforced by two internal Army reports?-Taguba's and one by the Army's chief law-enforcement officer, Provost Marshal Donald Ryder, a major general.

Last fall, General Sanchez ordered Ryder to review the prison system in Iraq and recommend ways to improve it. Ryder's report, filed on November 5th, concluded that there were potential human-rights, training, and manpower issues, system-wide, that needed immediate attention. It also discussed serious concerns about the tension between the missions of the military police assigned to guard the prisoners and the intelligence teams who wanted to interrogate them. Army regulations limit intelligence activity by the M.P.s to passive collection. But something had gone wrong at Abu Ghraib.

There was evidence dating back to the Afghanistan war, the Ryder report said, that M.P.s had worked with intelligence operatives to "set favorable conditions for subsequent interviews"?-a euphemism for breaking the will of prisoners. "Such actions generally run counter to the smooth operation of a detention facility, attempting to maintain its population in a compliant and docile state." General Karpinski's brigade, Ryder reported, "has not been directed to change its facility procedures to set the conditions for MI interrogations, nor participate in those interrogations." Ryder called for the establishment of procedures to "define the role of military police soldiers . . .clearly separating the actions of the guards from those of the military intelligence personnel." The officers running the war in Iraq were put on notice.

Ryder undercut his warning, however, by concluding that the situation had not yet reached a crisis point. Though some procedures were flawed, he said, he found "no military police units purposely applying inappropriate confinement practices." His investigation was at best a failure and at worst a coverup.

Taguba, in his report, was polite but direct in refuting his fellow-general. "Unfortunately, many of the systemic problems that surfaced during [Ryder's] assessment are the very same issues that are the subject of this investigation," he wrote. "In fact, many of the abuses suffered by detainees occurred during, or near to, the time of that assessment." The report continued, "Contrary to the findings of MG Ryder's report, I find that personnel assigned to the 372nd MP Company, 800th MP Brigade were directed to change facility procedures to ?'set the conditions' for MI interrogations." Army intelligence officers, C.I.A. agents, and private contractors "actively requested that MP guards set physical and mental conditions for favorable interrogation of witnesses."

Taguba backed up his assertion by citing evidence from sworn statements to Army C.I.D. investigators. Specialist Sabrina Harman, one of the accused M.P.s, testified that it was her job to keep detainees awake, including one hooded prisoner who was placed on a box with wires attached to his fingers, toes, and penis. She stated, "MI wanted to get them to talk. It is Graner and Frederick's job to do things for MI and OGA to get these people to talk."

Another witness, Sergeant Javal Davis, who is also one of the accused, told C.I.D. investigators, "I witnessed prisoners in the MI hold section . . . being made to do various things that I would question morally. . . . We were told that they had different rules." Taguba wrote, "Davis also stated that he had heard MI insinuate to the guards to abuse the inmates. When asked what MI said he stated: ?'Loosen this guy up for us.'?'Make sure he has a bad night.'?'Make sure he gets the treatment.'" Military intelligence made these comments to Graner and Frederick, Davis said. "The MI staffs to my understanding have been giving Graner compliments . . . statements like, ?'Good job, they're breaking down real fast. They answer every question. They're giving out good information.'"

When asked why he did not inform his chain of command about the abuse, Sergeant Davis answered, "Because I assumed that if they were doing things out of the ordinary or outside the guidelines, someone would have said something. Also the wing"?-where the abuse took place?-"belongs to MI and it appeared MI personnel approved of the abuse."

Another witness, Specialist Jason Kennel, who was not accused of wrongdoing, said, "I saw them nude, but MI would tell us to take away their mattresses, sheets, and clothes." (It was his view, he added, that if M.I. wanted him to do this "they needed to give me paperwork.") Taguba also cited an interview with Adel L. Nakhla, a translator who was an employee of Titan, a civilian contractor. He told of one night when a "bunch of people from MI" watched as a group of handcuffed and shackled inmates were subjected to abuse by Graner and Frederick.

General Taguba saved his harshest words for the military-intelligence officers and private contractors. He recommended that Colonel Thomas Pappas, the commander of one of the M.I. brigades, be reprimanded and receive non-judicial punishment, and that Lieutenant Colonel Steven Jordan, the former director of the Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center, be relieved of duty and reprimanded. He further urged that a civilian contractor, Steven Stephanowicz, of CACI International, be fired from his Army job, reprimanded, and denied his security clearances for lying to the investigating team and allowing or ordering military policemen "who were not trained in interrogation techniques to facilitate interrogations by ?'setting conditions' which were neither authorized" nor in accordance with Army regulations. "He clearly knew his instructions equated to physical abuse," Taguba wrote. He also recommended disciplinary action against a second CACI employee, John Israel. (A spokeswoman for CACI said that the company had "received no formal communication" from the Army about the matter.)

"I suspect," Taguba concluded, that Pappas, Jordan, Stephanowicz, and Israel "were either directly or indirectly responsible for the abuse at Abu Ghraib," and strongly recommended immediate disciplinary action.



The problems inside the Army prison system in Iraq were not hidden from senior commanders. During Karpinski's seven-month tour of duty, Taguba noted, there were at least a dozen officially reported incidents involving escapes, attempted escapes, and other serious security issues that were investigated by officers of the 800th M.P. Brigade. Some of the incidents had led to the killing or wounding of inmates and M.P.s, and resulted in a series of "lessons learned" inquiries within the brigade. Karpinski invariably approved the reports and signed orders calling for changes in day-to-day procedures. But Taguba found that she did not follow up, doing nothing to insure that the orders were carried out. Had she done so, he added, "cases of abuse may have been prevented."

General Taguba further found that Abu Ghraib was filled beyond capacity, and that the M.P. guard force was significantly undermanned and short of resources. "This imbalance has contributed to the poor living conditions, escapes, and accountability lapses," he wrote. There were gross differences, Taguba said, between the actual number of prisoners on hand and the number officially recorded. A lack of proper screening also meant that many innocent Iraqis were wrongly being detained?-indefinitely, it seemed, in some cases. The Taguba study noted that more than sixty per cent of the civilian inmates at Abu Ghraib were deemed not to be a threat to society, which should have enabled them to be released. Karpinski's defense, Taguba said, was that her superior officers "routinely" rejected her recommendations regarding the release of such prisoners.

Karpinski was rarely seen at the prisons she was supposed to be running, Taguba wrote. He also found a wide range of administrative problems, including some that he considered "without precedent in my military career." The soldiers, he added, were "poorly prepared and untrained . . . prior to deployment, at the mobilization site, upon arrival in theater, and throughout the mission."

General Taguba spent more than four hours interviewing Karpinski, whom he described as extremely emotional: "What I found particularly disturbing in her testimony was her complete unwillingness to either understand or accept that many of the problems inherent in the 800th MP Brigade were caused or exacerbated by poor leadership and the refusal of her command to both establish and enforce basic standards and principles among its soldiers."

Taguba recommended that Karpinski and seven brigade military-police officers and enlisted men be relieved of command and formally reprimanded. No criminal proceedings were suggested for Karpinski; apparently, the loss of promotion and the indignity of a public rebuke were seen as enough punishment.



After the story broke on CBS last week, the Pentagon announced that Major General Geoffrey Miller, the new head of the Iraqi prison system, had arrived in Baghdad and was on the job. He had been the commander of the Guantánamo Bay detention center. General Sanchez also authorized an investigation into possible wrongdoing by military and civilian interrogators.

As the international furor grew, senior military officers, and President Bush, insisted that the actions of a few did not reflect the conduct of the military as a whole. Taguba's report, however, amounts to an unsparing study of collective wrongdoing and the failure of Army leadership at the highest levels. The picture he draws of Abu Ghraib is one in which Army regulations and the Geneva conventions were routinely violated, and in which much of the day-to-day management of the prisoners was abdicated to Army military-intelligence units and civilian contract employees. Interrogating prisoners and getting intelligence, including by intimidation and torture, was the priority.

The mistreatment at Abu Ghraib may have done little to further American intelligence, however. Willie J. Rowell, who served for thirty-six years as a C.I.D. agent, told me that the use of force or humiliation with prisoners is invariably counterproductive. "They'll tell you what you want to hear, truth or no truth," Rowell said. "?'You can flog me until I tell you what I know you want me to say.' You don't get righteous information."

Under the fourth Geneva convention, an occupying power can jail civilians who pose an "imperative" security threat, but it must establish a regular procedure for insuring that only civilians who remain a genuine security threat be kept imprisoned. Prisoners have the right to appeal any internment decision and have their cases reviewed. Human Rights Watch complained to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld that civilians in Iraq remained in custody month after month with no charges brought against them. Abu Ghraib had become, in effect, another Guantánamo.

As the photographs from Abu Ghraib make clear, these detentions have had enormous consequences: for the imprisoned civilian Iraqis, many of whom had nothing to do with the growing insurgency; for the integrity of the Army; and for the United States' reputation in the world.

Captain Robert Shuck, Frederick's military attorney, closed his defense at the Article 32 hearing last month by saying that the Army was "attempting to have these six soldiers atone for its sins." Similarly, Gary Myers, Frederick's civilian attorney, told me that he would argue at the court-martial that culpability in the case extended far beyond his client. "I'm going to drag every involved intelligence officer and civilian contractor I can find into court," he said. "Do you really believe the Army relieved a general officer because of six soldiers? Not a chance."


Here's the million-dollar question, Fox: who do you think runs Military Intelligence?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Dec, 2004 12:24 pm
CI writes
Quote:
Foxfyre, It's very evident you have never served in the armed forces of the US or any other army.


Nope, but most of the male members of my family have including my husband and my son. Some were officers. Some were grunts. And not one of them ever suggested that an officer should be court marshalled because some of the people under him did a court marshallable offense unless the officer failed to take appropriate action or participated in a cover up when the offense was discovered.
0 Replies
 
 

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