THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

Now you've got it right! Our congress should stop buying, with our money, more welfare of individuals and start buying more "general Welfare of the United States."

Benevolent?


Fallujah Photos showing the benevolence of our killing fields in Iraq.

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your images didn't load, CI...

CYcloptichorn

That's your opinion, so admit you are speaking for yourself.

Cyclo, Those images are protected by copyright laws, and people wanting to see those photos must contact the referenced names.

There is quite a bit of evidence, in the form of polls and news media from other countries, to support McTag's claim.

Cycloptichorn

More people believe the opposite. It's demonstrated daily by their desire for all things American. From our music to our movies to our food to our fashions.

This American could not really give 2 bits hoe McTag seea the US. Should we examine the general consensus of the English?

McTag has the right to express his opinions on any subject he pleases to post on a2k and elsewhere. McG, Who the fxxx do you think you are? Any citizen of this world has the right to express their opinion about anything and everything they wish. It's not for you to say who does and who doesn't.

Try not to take this the wrong way, but the discontented minority has no bearing on our fiscal stamina whatsoever.

This is the meat. Yes, ideally, we could do a hell of a lot better. We have no argument there. Now, site one single example of an Alpha country having done so. (Just reminding you why you conceded that point already :wink:)

I don't believe Bush authorized any torture. I further believe U.S. forces who crossed the line will be punished accordingly. While arguing for habeas corpus for our enemies, don't contradict yourself by denying our own forces the same consideration.

It occurs to me again that even in your idealistic zeal, you actually hold the United States to a much higher standard than our defeated foe and would-be allies alike. This is contrary to both your constant derision of the U.S.'s behavior AND the natural law of "might makes right" and consequently speaks volumes for the high esteem you actually do hold the U.S. up to. I join you in hopes of aspiring towards the heightened ideals you hold so dear, but am repelled by your constant collusion with those who accuse us of being worse… merely for not being better enough. Now admit it, once and for all: despite there being plenty of room for improvement, we are nonetheless history-to-date's alpha alpha in terms of benevolence . :wink:

McTag, your refusal to answer a simple question is answer enough.

Excuse me? How about you go get your glasses and read what I said instead of getting all indignant about it.

[Btw: Alpha decay half-lives range from about a microsecond (10-6 second) to billions of years (1017 seconds). ]

That's not really true, c.i., but if Bush had his way, it would be. :wink:

Edit= shortened quote for clarity.

I've reread your post, and I still say who the fxxx do you think you are?

His master's voice?

I think I am an American expressing my opinion. McTag wants to insult America, that's his choice. Not going to really change anyones opinions on him or his opinions.

Now, let's discuss who you think you are, shall we?

This is the whole reason I brought up the point about holding 'alpha' countries to a different standard; even if we ARE the most benevolent conquerors out of all the Alpha countries, that still doesn't mean we should be judged by different standards than what you would consider 'non-alpha' countries.

I have a counter-question(s) for you: has any 'alpha' country ever attempted to do what we are doing? Change the gov't of another country, against the will of that gov't, then leave? Were they successful doing so?

I'm critical of the way things are being run for a whole host of reasons, not the least of which being that I don't think anyone ever HAS successfully done what we are attempting to do. Given that we are embarking upon an exciting, unprecedented venture, we have to be careful to do it right, and this just doesn't seem to be the case.

I was a little confused by yer last paragraph, so I'm going to line-by-line ya, sorry.



I, personally, would hold everyone to the same standard. We have imposed higher standards upon ourselves by undertaking an aggressive military act against a sovreign nation, while at the same time claiming to bring peace and benevolence. It is critical to our sucess that the people of Iraq and the world believe us when we make this claim. If we do not hold ourselves to the highest possible standards, they will not, and we will lose.

You speak of our 'defeated foe.' Who is that, exactly? Saddam and the Baathists? I'm not quite sure they are done fighting, you may want to look at the news over the last few months before you label them as 'defeated.'



I'm not sure I understand what you mean here, but it seems to me that 'might makes right' only really works in the short run unless you are willing to totally kill your enemy, which seems pretty difficult given the circumstances.. The war on terror, the things that have happened to us over the last four years, should show that the long view IS important; the failure of our predecessors to take the long view in the Middle East has highly contributed to our problems today.

That being said, I have no desire to rag on the military; I'm sure every single soldier over there is working his butt off to help people. But I fear that we are not upholding the standards that are neccessary to get the support we need from the world and from Iraqis, and my criticism stems from this.

I have no ability to affect the actions of the insurgents, in any way, and therefore there is no point to criticising them or praising them. I try to look at them as people, though.



As I said before; we aren't being better enough. We are trying something unique, and we need to be on our best behaviour. I want nothing more than for Iraq to stabilize, for the US troops to come home, but I fear without improvements in the way we treat Iraqi citizens and the country as a whole, we will not see this happen.



Historical 'alphas' -

Imperial Britian
Communist Russia
Communist China
Facist Japan
Nazi Germany

And we're supposed to get an award for being nicer than these people? I admit, we're not as bad as they are, but that's still a far cry from great, and we're even still working on decent.... it just looks better because the rest are so terrible.

Good conversation

Cycloptichorn

It's not up to "you" to determine how Americans react to criticisms of the US. To use a blanket statement as you did about the Brits, that's about as stupid a statement as I've seen on a2k. And as far as my statement about "who the fxxx do you think you are" is my opinion - entirely, and needs no defending.

I think your whole reaction to my statement has been quite absurd. You'd have done better to just mumble under your breath and move on.

The only result was you acting the fool.

I've always been the fool for freedom of speech by all citizens of this planet. Criticising the US is one of them.