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THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 01:41 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
But true leaders don't govern by committee.


This really is a one-eyed sight, by someone, who obviously doesn't know anything else than a presidential government.

In countries like the UK, Germany or Switzerland (these are chosen, because they represent three different forms of democratic government) all decisions are done by the cabinet, with the head of that having more (Germany) or less (UK) or none (Switzerland) the final word = decission.

I know a UK minister in the UK foreign ministry personally: even there, decissions are made every morning by all ministers, who on their part get them from their committes ...

Demoratic systems vary a lot in the world, Foxfyre, we don't have only such like France and the USA where the presidents decide (and even France has got a Prime Minister as leader of the cabinet!).


And now make your homework and look up, how decissions in the UN are being made, how the position of the General Secretary is described ... :wink:
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 01:45 pm
I didn't say government Walter. As you know we have a three-prong government system in our Republic each of which provides checks and balances on the others. Any important decisions that are made must be approved or allowed by all three.

I was referring to leadership which is a totally different thing. I would guess even in Germany there are leaders in all divisions of your government and that vision and inspiration doesn't come simultaneously to all members of any group all at the same time. And how much approval does Germany need from other countries before it decides what is in the best interest of Germany?

And if the U.S. decides to take a leadership role that is not approved by all the others, and it is an honorable role with worthy goals, then what anybody else thinks should not matter.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 01:47 pm
I see a problem with it if it is true.

Nevertheless, we have caused a lot of the jobless problems ourselves with this "insurgency" problem and it is blindness not to admit to it.

If we leave Iraq in worse shape than we found it, it will not be our (as in liberals) fault as much as you or someone else will probably say it is. It is lack of leadership and a lack of plan and lack of a exit plan that will have caused Iraq to be in worse shape.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 01:50 pm
Quote:
‏Leading Iraqi political parties call for six-month elections delay ‏


‏POL-IRAQ-ELECTION-DELAY ‏
‏ Leading Iraqi political parties call for six-month elections delay ‏
‏‏
‏ BAGHDAD, Nov 26 (KUNA) -- Leading Iraqi political parties called on Friday ‏
‏for elections, scheduled for January 30, to be delayed for six month because ‏
‏of the surging violence in the country and until taking the necessary ‏
‏administrative and organizational preparations for the voting process.‏
‏ Representatives of 17 Iraqi political parties, including the two main ‏
‏Kurdish groups; the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) and the Kurdistan ‏
‏Democratic Party (KDP), conferred today in the house of the Iraqi Sunni leader ‏
‏and former presidency candidate, Adnan Pachachi, in Baghdad and decided to ‏
‏support a follow up committee formed during Dukan conference of political ‏
‏parties in Iraq, and called for dialogue with this committee to reach a ‏
‏relevant satisfactory solution. ‏
‏ They signed a petition calling for the election to be put off for a ‏
‏six-month period, so as to allow "for changes in the security situation and ‏
‏completion of necessary arrangements in terms of organization and ‏
‏administration," the petition read.‏
‏ The gathering stressed commitment to the political process in Iraq ‏
‏according to the relating UN resolutions and the Iraqi constitution, so as to ‏
‏create a federal and democratic system that groups various political parties. ‏
‏The conferees also considered the upcoming elections an essential part of the ‏
‏political process in Iraq and a necessary step to make it legitimate, and set ‏
‏the suitable climate for the post-election conditions.‏
‏ They also cited the lack of security in the country, the terror operations ‏
‏and the interference by foreign countries in Iraq as hurdles banning holding ‏
‏the election, and urged for condemnation of such acts, and for giving priority ‏
‏to the security demands.‏
‏ Iraqi Planning Minister Dr. Mahdi Al-Hafez told Kuwait News Agency (KUNA) ‏
‏he believed the majority of the Iraqis and the national council would support ‏
‏the postponement.‏
‏ Iraq's interim constitution says elections must be held by the end of ‏
‏January 2005, to choose a parliament that will form a new government and ‏
‏oversee the writing of a permanent constitution. (end)‏
‏ mhg.ad‏
source: KUNA - Kuweit News Agency
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 01:51 pm
Well Revel, in all due respect, if everybody thought in the way you are describing, Saddam Hussein would still be in power, the rape rooms and torture chambers would still be intact, and the OFF money would still be pouring into his bank accounts and those of his buddies while Iraqi children remained poor, hungry, uneducated, and without hope.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 01:53 pm
Quote:
Bush says he hopes election can proceed as scheduled

November 26, 2004
The Associated Press

BAGHDAD, Iraq Despite a new call today for a postponement of the Iraqi elections, President Bush says he hopes they still go forward.

Seventeen political parties say the election should be put off for at least six months, until the government can protect the polling places.

Most of the parties are Sunni Arab, Kurdish and secular groups. Their position is opposed by the majority Shiite community -- which strongly supports holding the elections on time.

The balloting is currently set for January 30th. Bush says the Iraqi Election Commission has scheduled the election and he hopes it will go forward then.

Among the minority Sunnis, there's widespread doubt that the elections can be held, because of continued insurgent activity in Sunni regions in central and northern Iraq.

A group of Sunni clerics wants Sunnis to boycott the election to protest this month's U-S-led assault on Fallujah.
Source
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 02:01 pm
Yes, the President has been talking about all that a lot recently. The reason he does not want to postpone the elections is because it would let the terrorists win and would only encourage them to redouble their efforts. If you think he is speaking unilaterally and is not speaking the minds of many, you would be wrong.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 02:04 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
If you think he is speaking unilaterally and is not speaking the minds of many, you would be wrong.


Many Irquians?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 02:07 pm
Certainly the current interim administration is on record as wanting the election to go forward for the same reasons President Bush wants it to go forward. Remember, the skeptics didn't think Afghanistan would get their election done on schedule either, but they did.

The Chicken Little people are always going to whine that something can't be done or things are so bad, they are impossible. I am grateful for a President who doesn't think in terms like that.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 02:16 pm
Foxfyre wrote:


The Chicken Little people are always going to whine that something can't be done or things are so bad, they are impossible. I am grateful for a President who doesn't think in terms like that.


Actually, these "Chicken Little people" are living there.
And THEY are going to elect THEIR government.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 02:21 pm
Somehow I just plain doubt that Walter. I know and talk to too many military types who have been there elbow to elbow with the Iraqi people. I listen to those who aren't naysayers talk about it on various radio and television programs. I just think the liberal media is painting the picture much blacker than it actually is.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 02:27 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Somehow I just plain doubt that Walter.


So you doubt those 17 parties? Even your former closest allies in Iraq, namely the Kurds?

Interesting point.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 02:27 pm
This is from a while ago, but I'm busy today.

Joe Nation wrote:
I must have slept too long, does anyone here believe the current administration's stance on human rights, (which is, god only knows what), an administration peopled by the same folks who derided Jimmy Carter's efforts at supporting human rights, the same administration which has to date -with one exceptional statement by the now lame duck Colin Powell-- has ignored the tragedy in Darfur, has been silent on the still missing in Kosovo and if asked to produce a single effort on behalf of human rights during it's first term would have to remain mute, would back an idea such as Occam Bill's? Of course, they would. They'll say anything.

Then they'll say "Well, we tried. We went hunting rabbits but came back with a duck, so we weren't lying but now we have to withdraw from the UN because of our great moral values and all."

What I can't figure out is how someone who can think of an idea like basing an international community on human rights can throw in with the bunch of cowboys we just re-elected? Ask yourself, have the words 'human rights' ever appeared in a Republican platform? And the other day, in reply to my question about "Who wants democracy in the Middle East?" a bunch of Bush backers came back with answers like 'it's the people who must want it." sounding like about half the hippies I used to hang out with in 1972. You're speaking like a Eugene McCarthy Democrat and voting Republican.

I need more coffee.

I think you're right Joe. About oversleeping and needing more coffee. You don't seem to realize that I remain no big fan of Bush. You're forgetting he ran unopposed on most of the issues you mentioned. I don't believe Kerry said much about interfering in Sudan and frankly what he did have to say about dealing with the world's worst human rights abusers repelled me all the way to the Bush camp. Historically, I've used my vote to voice my disgust at the second rate Cesar's I'm supposed to choose between. But the Senator from Mass made it abundantly clear he'd choose popular consensus over personal integrity and even security. Appeasement in cases like Kim Jong Il's murder of millions isn't the way to my vote. Another decade of a commander in chief sleeping at the wheel (like the 90's) and I think we'd come to think of September 11th as a medium size terrorist attack.

Bin Ladin says the conditions that made him attack us still exist. I believe him… and I don't think those conditions are going away anytime soon. This will come up again.

As long as there are people who can't earn enough for 3 hots and a cot; there will be those who are willing to die for a chance at a better lot in life. (Why the hell we haven't stomped out Castro yet, I have no idea.) Each time I hear about a suicide attack, I wonder how horrible life must be to sacrifice your life, knowing it is probably in vain, hoping beyond hope that someone who matters will hear the message. I don't know all the answers, but I know this: Freedom from tyranny, whether it be state or church sponsored, is a necessary step in removing the motivation of the suicide attacker.

Further, I do not believe it is possible to prevent this sort of attack, short of eliminating the attacker in advance. You're a New Yorker Joe. Could anyone, anyone, stop you from killing thousands of people if you had the tools and the commitment? Poor hungry people will always rebel… and when rich, educated, charismatic and well-equipped folks like Bin-Ladin decide to lead them, they will follow.

The church side is largely psychological and is thereby off-limits according to most in the civilized world. So, we must concentrate on the States. States that routinely commit… or even condone human rights violations must be addressed… for it is the victims or at least those in kinship with the victims who would become the hated terrorists. Think about it… no one hates us worse than the French, but you won't see any French suicide bombers. Their lives have meaning… so it's not so easy to throw away.

If Bin Ladin wanted us to attack Iraq, to free the people so that they may pursue their own happiness… than I'd have to agree with him. Shocked He would be correct insofar as they deserve better than they've gotten. Pity for him, his brand of tyranny is no better, and we will therefore not be stopping half-way. They deserve better than what that fiend has in mind for them as well.

You folks from the Kerry camp need to realize Bush didn't win because people are stupid or scared. And it's not because there are so many religious fanatics either. Bush won because the world is full murderous A-holes… and the one extra one that Bush chose to address is one more than anyone else was willing to address. We hope for better in his second term… with more enthusiasm but not that much more confidence than you have.

Tell you what Joe. You find me candidate that will address situations like Sudan on the premise that terrorism stems from that kind of hopelessness... and I'll volunteer for his campaign.
0 Replies
 
JanW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 02:55 pm
As an Iraqi expressed it in a recent documentary, American policy consists of "Democratize or we'll kill you."

I don't really see much hope for the foreseeable future.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 03:38 pm
Walter writes
Quote:
So you doubt those 17 parties? Even your former closest allies in Iraq, namely the Kurds?

Interesting point.


You sound almost hopeful that will be the case Walter. Surely you can see how smug and how encouraged the murderous insurgents will be if they are successful in interfering with a lawful election that they do not want. They certainly wanted to disrupt the recent U.S. election as well and the leftish media was perfectly willing to go along with the ridiculous rumors that the election might have to be postponed if there was an attack or imminent threat of one. All the non-Chicken Little people well knew how disastrous that would be, however, and that nothing short of the Rapture and onset of Armagaddon could have stopped the U.S. election.

I would be terribly disappointed in our president were he to cave in to this kind of malicious pressure. And I hope the Iraqis hang tough too and refuse to capitulate to murderous Islamic facists.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2004 04:04 pm
a) I was just summarizing those above mentioned sources.
They don't speak for me - at least I didn't give them permission to do so.

b) I still think, people themslves should decide not only whom but also when they want to elect.
Since this is a democratic process, everyone in the 'chosen' institition should have to right to express his opinion.
Even the "minorities" = of 40% of the Iraquis.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2004 07:32 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Walter writes
Quote:
So you doubt those 17 parties? Even your former closest allies in Iraq, namely the Kurds?

Interesting point.


You sound almost hopeful that will be the case Walter. Surely you can see how smug and how encouraged the murderous insurgents will be if they are successful in interfering with a lawful election that they do not want. They certainly wanted to disrupt the recent U.S. election as well and the leftish media was perfectly willing to go along with the ridiculous rumors that the election might have to be postponed if there was an attack or imminent threat of one. All the non-Chicken Little people well knew how disastrous that would be, however, and that nothing short of the Rapture and onset of Armagaddon could have stopped the U.S. election.

I would be terribly disappointed in our president were he to cave in to this kind of malicious pressure. And I hope the Iraqis hang tough too and refuse to capitulate to murderous Islamic facists.



Another 'lawfully elected official' ..... Can you tell me how this election will be any different?




http://stommel.tamu.edu/~baum/ethel/rumsfeld-saddam.jpg
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2004 08:47 am
This article (just one of several I've found recently) supports the administration's policy of promoting democracy as a means of controlling the spread of terrorism.

Quote:
A John F. Kennedy School of Government researcher has cast doubt on the widely held belief that terrorism stems from poverty, finding instead that terrorist violence is related to a nation's level of political freedom.

Associate Professor of Public Policy Alberto Abadie examined data on terrorism and variables such as wealth, political freedom, geography, and ethnic fractionalization for nations that have been targets of terrorist attacks.

Abadie, whose work was published in the Kennedy School's Faculty Research Working Paper Series, included both acts of international and domestic terrorism in his analysis.

Though after the 9/11 attacks most of the work in this area has focused on international terrorism, Abadie said terrorism originating within the country where the attacks occur actually makes up the bulk of terrorist acts each year. According to statistics from the MIPT Terrorism Knowledge Base for 2003, which Abadie cites in his analysis, there were 1,536 reports of domestic terrorism worldwide, compared with just 240 incidents of international terrorism.

Before analyzing the data, Abadie believed it was a reasonable assumption that terrorism has its roots in poverty, especially since studies have linked civil war to economic factors. However, once the data was corrected for the influence of other factors studied, Abadie said he found no significant relationship between a nation's wealth and the level of terrorism it experiences.

"In the past, we heard people refer to the strong link between terrorism and poverty, but in fact when you look at the data, it's not there. This is true not only for events of international terrorism, as previous studies have shown, but perhaps more surprisingly also for the overall level of terrorism, both of domestic and of foreign origin," Abadie said.

Instead, Abadie detected a peculiar relationship between the levels of political freedom a nation affords and the severity of terrorism. Though terrorism declined among nations with high levels of political freedom, it was the intermediate nations that seemed most vulnerable.

Like those with much political freedom, nations at the other extreme - with tightly controlled autocratic governments - also experienced low levels of terrorism.

Though his study didn't explore the reasons behind the trends he researched, Abadie said it could be that autocratic nations' tight control and repressive practices keep terrorist activities in check, while nations making the transition to more open, democratic governments - such as currently taking place in Iraq and Russia - may be politically unstable, which makes them more vulnerable.

"When you go from an autocratic regime and make the transition to democracy, you may expect a temporary increase in terrorism," Abadie said.
Abadie's study also found a strong connection in the data between terrorism and geographic factors, such as elevation or tropical weather.

"Failure to eradicate terrorism in some areas of the world has often been attributed to geographic barriers, like mountainous terrain in Afghanistan or tropical jungle in Colombia. This study provides empirical evidence of the link between terrorism and geography," Abadie said.

In Abadie's opinion, the connection between geography and terrorism is hardly surprising.

"Areas of difficult access offer safe haven to terrorist groups, facilitate training, and provide funding through other illegal activities like the production and trafficking of cocaine and opiates," Abadie wrote in the paper.

A native of Spain's Basque region, Abadie said he has long been interested in terrorism and related issues. His past research has explored the effect of terrorism on economic activity, using the Basque country as a case study.

Abadie is turning his attention to the effect of terrorism on international capital flows. Some analysts have argued that terrorist attacks wouldn't have much of an impact on the economy, since unlike a war's widespread damage, the damage from terrorist attacks tends to be relatively small or confined to a small area.

In an era of open international capital markets, however, Abadie said terrorism may have a greater chilling effect than previously thought, since even a low risk of damage from a terrorist attack may be enough to send investors looking elsewhere.


Source
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2004 10:01 am
The Costs of Staying the Course



Conditions in Iraq and in Past Wars Cast Casualty Tolls in a Different Light

By Brian Gifford
Monday, November 29, 2004; Page A19



More than 1,200 U.S. military personnel have died in Iraq so far. In the face of rising casualties, polls taken throughout the election season revealed the public's discomfort with our progress in Iraq but gave little indication of weakening support for the mission. This ambivalence about the war's human costs reflects perhaps both a belief in the cause for which our troops are fighting and a perception that in the aggregate their sacrifices -- while always tragic on an individual level -- are historically light. A glance at earlier wars seemingly confirms this latter sentiment. Compared with the more than 405,000 American personnel killed in World War II and the 58,000 killed in Vietnam, Iraq hardly seems like a war at all.

But focusing on how few military deaths we've suffered conceals the difficulty of the mission and the determination of the forces arrayed against the American presence in Iraq. A closer look at these deaths -- 1,232 as I write -- reveals a real rate of manpower attrition that raises questions about our ability to sustain our presence there in the long run.
To better understand the difficulty of the fighting in Iraq, consider not just the current body count but the combat intensity of previous wars. During World War II, the United States lost an average of 300 military personnel per day. The daily figure in Vietnam was about 15. Compared with two per day so far in Iraq, the daily grinds of those earlier conflicts were worse than what our forces are currently experiencing.

On the other hand, improved body armor, field medical procedures and medevac capabilities are allowing wounded soldiers to survive injuries that would have killed them in earlier wars. In World War II there were 1.7 wounded for every fatality, and 2.6 in Vietnam; in Iraq the ratio of wounded to killed is 7.6. This means that if our wounded today had the same chances of survival as their fathers did in Vietnam, we would probably now have more than 3,500 deaths in the Iraq war.

Moreover, we fought those wars with much larger militaries than we currently field. The United States had 12 million active-duty personnel at the end of World War II and 3.5 million at the height of the Vietnam War, compared with just 1.4 million today. Adjusted for the size of the armed forces, the average daily number of killed and wounded was 4.8 times as many in World War II than in Iraq, but it was only 0.25 times greater in Vietnam -- or one-fourth more.

These figures suggest that our forces in Iraq face a far more serious threat than the public, the media and the political establishment typically acknowledge or understand. Man for man, a soldier or Marine in Iraq faces a mission nearly as difficult as that in Vietnam a generation earlier. This is in spite of the fact that his contemporary enemies do not field heavy armored vehicles or aircraft and do not enjoy the support and patronage of a superpower such as the Soviet Union. Our better-prepared troops are taking casualties at a real rate not tremendously lower than their predecessors in World War II, a bloodier, costlier, longer war that was fought on three continents and across three oceans and one that relied heavily on face-to-face combat rather than precision-guided munitions.

The focus on how "light" casualties have been so far rather than on what those casualties signify serves to rationalize the continued conduct of the war and prevents us as a nation from confronting the realities of conditions in Iraq. Even more troubling, daily casualties have almost tripled since before the first attack on Fallujah in April. Conditions are getting worse, not improving. To be sure, American forces are winning the body count. That the insurgency is nonetheless growing more effective in the face of heavier losses makes it difficult to imagine an exit strategy that any reasonable person would recognize as a "victory."

Some will charge that this analysis amounts to defeatism. I disagree. Understanding the battlefield as the men and women of our armed forces experience it acknowledges the sacrifices they are making in our name.

Taking false comfort in the fact that earlier wars claimed a greater number of lives trivializes those sacrifices. We owe them and our nation a realistic discussion about the potential benefits of staying the course in Iraq vs. the probable costs. If history is any guide, those costs will be heavy.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2004 10:38 am
Then there's this one that is very good and says pretty much what I think:

10 reasons elections in Iraq will succeed

By Quentin Langley
Saturday, November 27, 2004

Over the next few weeks, Iraqi government troops and their coalition allies - from Britain, Australia, America, and countless other countries -- will be in action to make Iraq safer. In Fallujah, which will continue to see some of the worst fighting, it will be Iraqi and American troops that will be undertaking the most dangerous tasks.

We can guarantee that during this time, while the fighting is at its worst, the faint hearts and pessimists - the French and German governments; the U.N.; the Democrats; CNN and CBS - will tell us that the effort is doomed. They will say that the Iraqi elections will be a flop, turnout will be low, and that Saddam's supporters will likely come back to power. They will also tell us that only American soldiers are getting killed, with no reference to the brave Iraqis fighting to take their country back from the terrorists. Here are the top 10 reasons why they are wrong.

10. Despite the overwhelming media focus on trouble spots, these are all in the so-called Sunni Triangle, where just 20 percent of the population live. The fact that all the CNN cameras are in this one area doesn't make it representative of Iraq as a whole.

9. There are as many people in the Kurdish regions in the north, as there are in the Sunni Triangle. The Kurdish regions have had successful multi-party democracies for 12 years.

8. The majority Shias (60 percent of the population) are keen to participate. Spiritual leaders, including Ayatollah Sistani, have urged people to vote and even calling it a religious duty. Under this doctrine, people who don't vote can go to hell.

7. The electoral system chosen (national lists) is not particularly vulnerable to intimidation. Votes are counted locally but the totals are calculated nationally, and seats in parliament are awarded in proportion to votes. A gang that intimidates voters locally will have almost no impact on the national vote.

6. A boycott by Sunnis would be counterproductive. In the U.S., representation is allocated to each state according to population. Under national lists, the weight of any region or strand of opinion is determined by turnout. If Sunnis stay at home, Sunni candidates don't get elected.

5. The coalition has trained a new Iraqi army, which is taking on more and more of the security role. Claims by Western critics that America alone is keeping the provisional government in power and that 90 percent of the coalition military casualties have been American are simply wrong. The Iraqi army is the main force in Iraq now and has suffered more casualties from terrorists than American forces. But the terrorists who attack the Iraqi army have very little support.

4. The turnout is going to be huge. Liberal journalists will report on the day that turnout is disappointing, because they will only be counting in Baghdad. When votes come in from Kurdish and Shia areas it will prove to be even bigger than the American turnout, which itself was up by a fifth from 2000.

3. People in Iraq are fed up with war. They know that the only way to end the series of wars that Saddam led them into is to empower a democratic, probably Western-oriented, government to stamp out the Saddam loyalists who are disrupting Iraqi life.

2. More and more people in Iraq have access to the Internet and other free information sources. They no longer have to trust government propaganda. Al Jazeera, and a growing network of Iraqi bloggers - most of whom regard Americans as allies - give Iraqis access to freedom of speech.

But the biggest reason the Iraqi elections will be a success is ...

1. Western liberals who claim that Arabs don't want or aren't ready for democracy are just wrong. What liberals call "Western" values are human values. Arabs want to be free and to govern themselves just as much as people in Europe and America do.

Quentin Langley is a British based writer and commentator. He is a lecturer at Cardiff University in Wales in international public relations and international correspondent of Campaigns and Elections magazine.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/opinion/columnists/guests/s_277082.html
0 Replies
 
 

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