THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

O'Bill, you and icann talk about war like it's a video game for big boys. Listening to your audio clip is unnecessary when I can speak to my parents, and other family and friends about what it is like to be in a war, to be evacuated, to be a refugee. Games for boys involving other people's lives. It disgusts me.

O'Bill, you and icann talk about war like it's a video game for big boys.

Listening to your audio clip is unnecessary when I can speak to my parents, and other family and friends about what it is like to be in a war, to be evacuated, to be a refugee.



Games for boys involving other people's lives. It disgusts me.

... try to put yourself into the shoes of an iraqui (if he has any shoes left), would it still be 'straight forward ?'. if you were an iraqui and you saw your friends dying, your house destroyed and you had no money to feed your children, would it still be 'straight forward' ?. ...

... i'm kind of curious to know why the well-to-do middle-eastern nations (saudi-arabia comes to mind) are not taking part in the 'liberation' of iraq ? i seem to recall that some months ago a saudi minister was interviewed and asked this question. his reply was somewhat along these lines : "well, we like to be friends with the U.S., but we have to listen to our own people also. we cannot risk any action that would put our own government in jeopardy."

... if we can learn one thing from them it's PATIENCE ; that may not always suit our way of doing things because WE WANT ACTION NOW . ...

I guess if the government can have 'hunches' so can you, foxfyre.

They had a hunch Iraq was linked to Al Qaeda, (boy it is NOW, isn't it, and to every other HOOD- type in the area)

They had a hunch there was nu- kler and WMS there, but didn't find a thing but Oil and trouble...


so, if your hunch does not prove true, you'll at least be in party company- yeah?

theollady wrote:

I guess if the government can have 'hunches' so can you, foxfyre.

They had a hunch Iraq was linked to Al Qaeda, (boy it is NOW, isn't it, and to every other HOOD- type in the area)

They had a hunch there was nu- kler and WMS there, but didn't find a thing but Oil and trouble...


so, if your hunch does not prove true, you'll at least be in party company- yeah?

Will someone, please, explain to me if Theollady (and others here) are correct and we're in Iraq for oil...WHY is it that oil is at an all-time high?

If it was OIL we're after and that OIL is under our control by the fact that we are IN Iraq, why isn't it, say, $20/barrel? I could be wrong, but I don't even think you'd find an Iraqi that would go along with that thinking.

Cultures can change, though. But it takes time. And, be advised, it is going to take years to produce a decent outcome in Iraq. But every time I think this can't work, I come across something that suggests, who knows, maybe this time the play will end differently. The headlines last week were all about Falluja. But maybe the most important story in Iraq was the fact that while Falluja was exploding, 106 Iraqi parties and individuals registered to run in the January election. And maybe the second most important story is the relatively quiet way in which Iraqis, and the Arab world, accepted the U.S. invasion of Falluja. The insurgents there had murdered hundreds of Iraqi Muslims in recent months, and, I think, they lost a lot of sympathy from the Arab street. (But if we don't get the economy going on the Iraqi street, what the rest of the Arab world thinks will be of no help.)

Readers regularly ask me when I will throw in the towel on Iraq. I will be guided by the U.S. Army and Marine grunts on the ground. They see Iraq close up. Most of those you talk to are so uncynical - so convinced that we are doing good and doing right, even though they too are unsure it will work. When a majority of those grunts tell us that they are no longer willing to risk their lives to go out and fix the sewers in Sadr City or teach democracy at a local school, then you can stick a fork in this one. But so far, we ain't there yet. The troops are still pretty positive.

So let's thank God for what's in our drinking water, hope that maybe some of it washes over Iraq, and pay attention to the grunts. They'll tell us if it's time to go or stay.

Iraqis push ahead with elections
Iraq has set a date of 30 January 2005 for its first nationwide election since the toppling of Saddam Hussein.
The announcement came from the independent Iraqi electoral commission in Baghdad.

There had been mounting speculation as to whether elections would be feasible given the continuing violence.

Voters are still being registered, even though some registration centres closed because of attacks. More than 120 parties are said to have registered.

Commission spokesman Farid Ayar said areas beset by violence - including insurgent strongholds such as Falluja and Ramadi - would still participate in the elections.

"No Iraqi province will be excluded because the law considers Iraq as one constituency and therefore it is not legal to exclude any province," he was quoted by the Associated Press as saying.

Under the Iraqi timetable for democracy, elections for a transitional parliament needed to be held by the end of January.


'Clear message'

A UN official told the BBC that the decision to name a date was a clear message that the commission presently believed the vote could be held on time.

Adverts have been running on Iraqi television encouraging participation in the vote.



Iraq's Shia majority, repressed under the former regime, is eager for the elections to take place, says the BBC's Caroline Hawley in Baghdad.
But the Sunni minority, which previously held power, is less keen.

Much of the conflict between US-led troops and insurgents has taken place in Sunni areas of the country, and Sunni militants have already threatened to disrupt the vote.

Iraqis will vote for a transitional parliament that will pick a new government and oversee the writing of a constitution.

Only senior members of Saddam Hussein's former Baath party are being excluded from taking part in the poll.

Mr Ayar said 122 political parties out of 195 applications had been accepted and registered for the elections.

Violence

Meanwhile, violence continued across Iraq on Sunday:



At least six people died and a dozen were wounded after clashes between US forces and insurgents in Ramadi, say hospital officials

The bodies of 11 Iraqi soldiers have been found in the northern city of Mosul, several of them shot in the head

An oil well has been set alight in the northern area of Kirkuk in the latest act of sabotage

A US military convoy was attacked with a car bomb in Baghdad
Debt relief

But there was good news for Iraq's interim government on two fronts:

A cousin of Prime Minister Iyad Allawi, kidnapped on 9 November, has been freed, according to media reports and party officials.

And agreement has been reached among a group of creditor nations to forgive a large chunk of the country's debt.

The 19-nation Paris Club is reported to have agreed to a plan to write off some 80% of the $40bn debt owed to them.

A deal could be formally announced later on Sunday after further discussions between the US and Russia, an unnamed official told the Reuters news agency.

Iraq has said its $120bn (£64.5bn) debts are hampering its reconstruction.

It comes ahead of a two-day conference in Egypt to discuss the rebuilding of Iraq.


Members of G8 countries, the UN, EU, Arab League, Organisation of the Islamic Conference and Iraq's neighbours will attend the summit in the Red Sea resort of Sharm-el-Sheikh, which starts on Monday.

The interim Iraqi government said it would be presenting evidence that some of its neighbours were contributing to the increase of violence in the country.

A spokesman for Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said Iraq would put pressure on neighbouring countries not to allow their territories to be used to support violence and terrorism.

The government is to propose tightening border controls and exchanging information about militants operating in neighbouring countries.

If it was OIL we're after and that OIL is under our control by the fact that we are IN Iraq, why isn't it, say, $20/barrel? I could be wrong, but I don't even think you'd find an Iraqi that would go along with that thinking.

... for westerners, time is of the essence, but in the middle east time does not have the same meaning. hbg

There is an old saying that goes something like this: "There are some people who keep feeding the alligators in the hope that they will be the last to be eaten." What that means to me is there are some people who are too cowardly to resist evil and instead "go along to get along" until they run out of time and that evil does evil to them.